A Small Discussion on Maou Gakuin Resistances

[Tatsumi504]

??? But that's identical to saying they have a resistance, which I do not believe that they do.

Then I honestly have no other suggestions to offer. It's not like the characters will be affected by the manipulation of these things to begin with, it doesn't apply to every character, just those who have control over their source to a degree

 

[Tatsumi504]

If I recall correctly, the main reason this was added is because in a versus match, it was made known that Anos had no notable resistance to soul manipulation to which the then supporters replied he isn't affected by it and doesn't matter to him.
The opposition said it wasn't on the profile and can't be used which lead to then leading member @imZer0Null to add the unconventional resistance the same way the tensura supporters did as the mechanics were similar.

In plain wording, it isn't that they have notable resistance to soul manipulation, it is that they are not affected by any alteration to the soul. It's like how a device with it's own internal battery wouldn't turn off just cause it's unplugged.

 

[Deagonx]

Then I honestly have no other suggestions to offer.

I disagree with them having those resistances. You are just going to have to accept that we don't see eye to eye on this. You don't need to keep explaining your viewpoint to me over and over again.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

So uh

Has anything new been said or are points just being repeated? Because as far as I can tell, no evidence has been provided that having a source would grant resistance to something like, say, mind control or soul absorption.

 

[Deagonx]

Has anything new been said or are points just being repeated? Because as far as I can tell, no evidence has been provided that having a source would grant resistance to something like, say, mind control or soul absorption.

Points are more or less being repeated, par the course for these threads.

 

[KingNanaya]

Points are more or less being repeated, par the course for these threads.

not really necessary. true, but unnececary

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

not really necessary. true, but unnececary

When a staff spams unnecessary things that's not wrong you know.

 

[Deagonx]

I was asked a question by the OP of this thread and answered it.

 

[KingNanaya]

When a staff spams unnecessary things that's not wrong you know.

but you see, that was also unnecessary. my point was that we should just debate instead of being hostile

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

but you see, that was also unnecessary. my point was that we should just debate instead of being hostile

I was just replying to your comment as a sarcasm don't take it seriously.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Anyway unfollowing the thread. I am not interested in any of Fujiwara threads anymore. @Tatsumi504 good luck.

 

[PrinceofPein]

MGK needs to start hitting Touhou back, you guys are losing

This kind of thing boils down to, has there been any showing of resisting soul manipulation in the verse? or something similar that can be equated to soul?
If 'yes', the the resistance is fine, if 'no' then it should be removed

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

MGK needs to start hitting Touhou back, you guys are losing

This kind of thing boils down to, has there been any showing of resisting soul manipulation in the verse? or something similar that can be equated to soul?
If 'yes', the the resistance is fine, if 'no' then it should be removed

They have not shown that, no. Same goes for mind manipulation, as I have seen several scans of mind control type abilities working perfectly fine without the source "protecting" the target's mind.

also let's be real they're not gonna try again after last time

 

[Tatsumi504]

MGK needs to start hitting Touhou back, you guys are losing

This kind of thing boils down to, has there been any showing of resisting soul manipulation in the verse? or something similar that can be equated to soul?
If 'yes', the the resistance is fine, if 'no' then it should be removed

You should actually be asking if there's any form of Soul manipulation at all. Nobody cares about the soul

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

What does the existence of soul manipulation have to do with whether or not characters resist it? Not that I recall any MG characters having regular soulhax (at the very least, Anos doesn't have any).

 

[PrinceofPein]

You should actually be asking if there's any form of Soul manipulation at all. Nobody cares about the soul

So if you are admitting that there is not any form of soul manipulation at all, why should they get resistance to something that never happened?
It is like giving all verse without soul manipulation, resistance to soul manipulation because no one ever tried it on anyone in the verse.

 

[ShionAH]

So if you are admitting that there is not any form of soul manipulation at all, why should they get resistance to something that never happened?
It is like giving all verse without soul manipulation, resistance to soul manipulation because no one ever tried it on anyone in the verse.

If they can survive their soul and minds destruction because these are contained in the source than that would give a resistance

 

[Deagonx]

If they can survive their soul and minds destruction because these are contained in the source than that would give a resistance

That would just be filed under a form of immortality/resurrection/regeneration. Soul and Mind manipulation have a wide variety of effects beyond "destroying that thing and thus killing them" none of which they would have a resistance to.

 

[ShionAH]

That would just be filed under a form of immortality/resurrection/regeneration. Soul and Mind manipulation have a wide variety of effects beyond "destroying that thing and thus killing them" none of which they would have a resistance to.

Show me a way that these hax can effect Anos in an actual way. Theres none

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Show me a way that these hax can effect Anos in an actual way. Theres none

What? That's not how that works. You would need to prove that he'd be unaffected, not the other way around.

I can't give my favorite characters resistance to everything under the sun just because "well you need to prove it'd actually affect them first".

 

[ShionAH]

What? That's not how that works. You would need to prove that he'd be unaffected, not the other way around.

I can't give my favorite characters resistance to everything under the sun just because "well you need to prove it'd actually affect them first".

I dont have to prove anything. Anos and the others can survive without their soul and mind and these two are contained in another place that is deeper into the body? That means they dont need those, this gives resistance.

 

[Deagonx]

You're just repeating yourself.

 

[ShionAH]

You're just repeating yourself.

Yes because it is simple. I dont even support the verse but this CRT is bs, so I disagree

 

[PrinceofPein]

If they can survive their soul and minds destruction because these are contained in the source than that would give a resistance

it is like saying if I can come back to life, I have resistance to mind and soul manipulation, since when I die I lose consciousness(mind) and my soul.
The arguments are really not it.
There have been no showing of resistance to this abilities, so they will not get it

 

[ShionAH]

it is like saying if I can come back to life, I have resistance to mind and soul manipulation, since when I die I lose consciousness(mind) and my soul.
The arguments are really not it.
There have been no showing of resistance to this abilities, so they will not get it

Not the point at all. If your soul and mind are in like a conceptual place in your body and you are not lethally effected by your soul and mind being destroyed that is resistance. I dont know the verse so I will leave it at that

 

[Theglassman12]

@Dog3352 Yeah nothing of what you said is remotely implied that the mind and soul is gone. I’d like to see evidence that everyone with a source lacks both, if you can’t be bothered to prove this you have no ground to stand on.

@Tatsumi504 That literally means nothing, having unconventional resistance means you have some protection that isn’t just “I resist”. This is just saying I’m exposing my soul to let it be susceptible to any form of soul hax since my source matters more. That’s the same as saying you somehow resist biological hax because you don’t need your body as you can act as a soul.

Either way count me in for both resistances being removed.

 

[Tatsumi504]

it is like saying if I can come back to life, I have resistance to mind and soul manipulation, since when I die I lose consciousness(mind) and my soul.
The arguments are really not it.
There have been no showing of resistance to this abilities, so they will not get it

You are assuming they will die by having their soul destroyed in the first place.

 

[Tatsumi504]

@Dog3352 Yeah nothing of what you said is remotely implied that the mind and soul is gone. I’d like to see evidence that everyone with a source lacks both, if you can’t be bothered to prove this you have no ground to stand on.

@Tatsumi504 That literally means nothing, having unconventional resistance means you have some protection that isn’t just “I resist”. This is just saying I’m exposing my soul to let it be susceptible to any form of soul hax since my source matters more. That’s the same as saying you somehow resist biological hax because you don’t need your body as you can act as a soul.

Either way count me in for both resistances being removed.

Still doesn't change the fact that both don't matter to them. The source is a mind and soul of it's own. Funny thing is none of you have actually tried to address the scans and I just keep finding more as time goes on.

“As you’ve probably guessed by now, the Cursed King has two personalities: his main identity as the Cursed King Kaihilam, but also his lover, Jiste.”
“That makes absolutely no sense.” Sasha glanced at the Cursed King. Although Kaihilam Jiste had an androgynous face, his body was complete male.
“The dual personality isn’t too much of a concern; the trouble comes with how the source and memories change when the identities switch. None of Kaihilam’s memories can be probed while Jiste is in control.”
“How strange,” Misha murmured.
“There’s definitely only one source between them, though, and the Cursed King has no control over when the identity swaps happen.

There's your answer in regards to memories as well.

“Descendants of my fellow
demons, decay where you stand
and become loyal subjects of
the Scarlet Stele King.”
The monuments began to
emit a purple glow, creating
magic links to nearby stones.
Once all of the monuments
were connected, they formed
one great magic circle.
Zeshia covered her ears. “I
hear...something...”
There was a shuffling
sound of dragging feet.
Something was approaching.
The stench of decay wafted
through the area, accompanied
by low groaning noises.
“Oh, look. They’re here!”
With a mighty crash, the butler that had guided them
earlier burst through the door.
His skin was rotting; his eyes
were red; and two hideous
horns had sprouted from his
head. Above all, the magic he emitted was far more powerful
than before.
A low moan escaped the
butler’s lips as his red eyes
glared with hostility at Eleonore.
He looked practically insane.
Just then, glass shattered.
Eleonore turned to see the
castle soldiers clambering in
through the window. There
were six of them. Like the
butler, they had rotting skin, red
eyes, and two horns atop their
heads.
“They’re like zombies, but
not...” Eleonore muttered.
Zaburo laughed, watching
with a childish smirk.“ I doubt
you’ve seen these before.They’
re ghouls. I’ve upgraded that lame-ass spell Igrum that Anos concocted.This spell produces
subservient soldiers even more
powerful than those the original
spell could manage to create.
However, it also corrupts their
source.”

You all can continue your denial. A spell that controls others turning them into subservient soldiers targets the source.

I'd probably find even more without even having to try

 

[PrinceofPein]

You are assuming they will die by having their soul destroyed in the first place.

no rather, it is the other way around, when someone dies, their soul also dies. So when I get revived do I get soul manipulation?

Count me as an agree for removal of the abilities as well

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

For the second scan, it doesn't say it controls the mind by controlling their source, it just says it makes them subservient and also corrupts their source.

Also, that seems more like necromany and not mindhax lol

 

[Tatsumi504]

For the second scan, it doesn't say it controls the mind by controlling their source, it just says it makes them subservient and also corrupts their source.

Also, that seems more like necromany and not mindhax lol

It's cast on the source. Igrum is the same as Ingall but resurrects the dead as zombies. Yes makes them subservient now provide proof the spell is actively targeting different aspects. It corrupts their source yet the corruption is showing on their body?

A character already confirmed that they aren't zombies so your Necromancy goes bye-bye and furthermore, your Necromancy argument still fails since this spell was cast on people who were alive. The butler guided them into this room seconds before the confrontation, soldiers outside were affected as well

no rather, it is the other way around, when someone dies, their soul also dies. So when I get revived do I get soul manipulation?

Count me as an agree for removal of the abilities as well

What says the soul dies when a person dies? I've already sent a character who was perfectly alive without a soul I've also shown the source having 3 component parts- mind, soul and body.
How about you all actually get to refuting evidence?

 

[PrinceofPein]

What says the soul dies when a person dies? I've already sent a character who was perfectly alive without a soul I've also shown the source having 3 component parts- mind, soul and body.
How about you all actually get to refuting evidence?

Non-existent evidence?
Show an example of soul manipulation in the verse and someone resisting it
In fact there are lots of mind manip and not one example of resistance.

it is simple, you cannot give abilities that are not shown

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It's cast on the source. Igrum is the same as Ingall but resurrects the dead as zombies. Yes makes them subservient now provide proof the spell is actively targeting different aspects. It corrupts their source yet the corruption is showing on their body?

A character already confirmed that they aren't zombies so your Necromancy goes bye-bye and furthermore, your Necromancy argument still fails since this spell was cast on people who were alive. The butler guided them into this room seconds before the confrontation, soldiers outside were affected as well

Somehow I'm not convinced by the argument of "it raises the dead as zombies except no it doesn't and also it doesn't raise the dead".

Like, what's your goal here? Confusion? Because I'm sure as hell confused by how self-contradictory this is.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Non-existent evidence?
Show an example of soul manipulation in the verse and someone resisting it
In fact there are lots of mind manip and not one example of resistance.

it is simple, you cannot give abilities that are not shown

Mind Manipulation and no resistance? Characters resisting the Eyes of Destruction that destroys the mind? Demons with super natural willpower? Anos being unaffected by Jerga's empathic Manipulation and absorption? Various demons not being Affected by Avos Dilhevia's influence? Misa not being affected by the guardian God of thoughts? Anos stating that he cannot be brainwashed? Each time you open your mouth your ignorance on the verse becomes clearer and clearer.

Prove the evidence is non-existent. That is how a debate works

 

[Deagonx]

Stop making rude comments.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Somehow I'm not convinced by the argument of "it raises the dead as zombies except no it doesn't and also it doesn't raise the dead".

Like, what's your goal here? Confusion? Because I'm sure as hell confused by how self-contradictory this is.

Your confusion is no consequence of mine.

Zabro Gaze used the spell Anos created– Iglum, to create his own spell– Goa Grum.

Goa Grum doesn't raise the dead, it worked on people who were alive. Itturns those within it's area of effect into subservient soldiers by corrupting the source.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Mind Manipulation and no resistance? Characters resisting the Eyes of Destruction that destroys the mind? Demons with super natural willpower? Anos being unaffected by Jerga's empathic Manipulation and absorption? Various demons not being Affected by Avos Dilhevia's influence? Misa not being affected by the guardian God of thoughts? Anos stating that he cannot be brainwashed? Each time you open your mouth your ignorance on the verse becomes clearer and clearer.

Prove the evidence is non-existent. That is how a debate works

what?

If you don't provide the evidence yourself, then we have no reason to assume the evidence exists. How do you even go about proving something doesn't exist, anyways? That aside, the resistance to EoD is because of Anos' magic resistance (and I vaguely recall the WN having different power levels at play, not sure if that's the case here), not because his mind is in his source or whatever.

Your confusion is no consequence of mine.

Zabro Gaze used the spell Anos created– Iglum, to create his own spell– Goa Grum.

Goa Grum doesn't raise the dead, it worked on people who were alive. Itturns those within it's area of effect into subservient soldiers by corrupting the source.

It just says he upgraded Anos' spell, we don't have a reason it suddenly stops being necromancy and starts being mindhax just because it became more potent.

Also, the text says they're ghouls, which are also undead, soooooooooooo :v

 

[Tatsumi504]

Stop making rude comments.

What did I say that was rude? If using the term "ignorance" is rude then fine, I shall stop but as far as I know, it's a word used to indicate a lack of knowledge on a topic. I meant no harm in its usage here.

 

[Tatsumi504]

what?

If you don't provide the evidence yourself, then we have no reason to assume the evidence exists. How do you even go about proving something doesn't exist, anyways? That aside, the resistance to EoD is because of Anos' magic resistance (and I vaguely recall the WN having different power levels at play, not sure if that's the case here), not because his mind is in his source or whatever.


It just says he upgraded Anos' spell, we don't have a reason it suddenly stops being necromancy and starts being mindhax just because it became more potent.

Also, the text says they're ghouls, which are also undead, soooooooooooo :v

How does magic resistance disqualify it being a resistance to mind based powers? Magic resistance that has also prevented natural sound and vibrations.

Here's a piece of information for you, Necromancy involves raising the dead. Those people were not dead. Tokyo Ghoul has Ghouls, are they also undead?

 

[Deagonx]

Each time you open your mouth your ignorance on the verse becomes clearer and clearer.

This sentence is very obviously and intentionally rude. Please don't play coy and pretend otherwise, and in the future avoid debating like that.