A Pica Revision! Again!

[Eminiteable]

Wasn't Pica moving to destroy something when he was cut by Zoro? and as such had his KE stopped.

 

[Xulrev]

He beat base Pica when overcoming his Haki sure.

Unless you're unironically advocating for a calc to override another when your context is wrong? Pica doesnt scale to the durability here M3X, you're flat out wrong if that's your presumption

 

[Damage3245]

Wasn't Pica moving to destroy something when he was cut by Zoro? and as such had his KE stopped.

No. Pica was standing still.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I am ignoring the 7-A because it is useless. Damage a 6-C character is a 6-C feat indepedent of the result of the calculation. You didn't give a reason for why Pica wouldn't scale by the way.

 

[Damage3245]

M3X, I don't understand what you mean. We already had a full revision thread discussing how Pica doesn't scale.

 

[Xulrev]

Your stance is just wrong here M3X, Pica doesnt scale, an entire CRT was made on it

 

[Ryuga21]

Regardless of calculations, the golem can support its own KE so its durability is 6-C. Zoro cuts it in half (and in several pieces) then he is 6-C as well. Say that it cannot have this durability because it is made of stones is the same to claim that Luffy cannot have High 7-A durability because his body is made of rubber.

 

[Damage3245]

@Ryuga21, that's a laughably bad comparison because Luffy's body isn't made of rubber, he just has some properties of rubber.

Supporting its own weight doesn't mean the stone magically becomes more durable when it is being manipulated into a different shape. We shouldn't be assuming that kind if thing based on a calc that is made with assumptions.

 

[Eminiteable]

I'm not entirely sure how the Calc works exactly but Pica is in motion during the two major times Zoro cuts him; said cuts halt Pica's motio

 

[Damage3245]

The calc is for Pica walking, not Pica lowering his arm.

 

[Xulrev]

Picas motion halts because the stone that was moving is cut off from his ability, Zoro did not physically counter the KE.

These revisions keep circling the same tired points and lack of context, it's getting a bit asinine

 

[Eminiteable]

The stone that was moving did get halted and was forced upwards into the air.

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

So… most is in agreement with the OP except for Damage and Xulrev

 

[Xulrev]

Fortunately, people agreeing doesn't make them correct when they're ignoring an accepted CRT that precludes these foolish attempts to inaccurately upgrade Pica

 

[Xulrev]

The stone that was moving did get halted and was forced upwards into the air.

Yes, and that has been calced at 7-A.

The stone's durability didn't magically increase, Pica was gliding through the ground by being attached to it still and therefore the stone doesn't have 6-C durability.

This is ludicrous, really

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KobsterHope07/Gecko_Moria_deserves_some_respect
Also this is worth adding to the CRT.

Kobster said he would eventually make a CRT on that. When will he post it, I don't know.

 

[Dr.Fix]

So… most is in agreement with the OP except for Damage and Xulrev

Correct. I think @Ant should apply the change and close the thread at this point.

 

[Dr.Fix]

I don't care about this. The last time we discussed about Pica I had a mental breakdown so I'm not interested in arguing about this anymore.

If for no other reaosn than @Cal's sanity :S

 

[RexofLM]

Perhaps it would be wise to hear damage out and come to an agreement? It seems as though when his points are ignored and upgrades are applied they are undone later once evidence is brought up. Ie current drop from 6B for most characters.

 

[AstralKing7]

Count how many staff members have agreed with this upgrade.

@Rex the same also happens with the downgrades and then upgrades happening right after. This is why we have multiple staff members to evaluate things.

 

[Xulrev]

I have no clue why people are trying to rush this through when they're objectively wrong due to accepted wiki information.

A CRT that was accepted stands as Pica not scaling to his Devil Fruit whatsoever.

Everything in this thread relies upon people scaling to Pica's physicals, which would only be an upgrade if Pica scaled to this calc, which he does not

Zoro's only interaction with said golem in the OP has an explicit Tier 7-A accepted calc. No amount of further context can alter that.

Seriously, people trying to rush things through that they KNOW will get reverted at a later date is just a waste of staff time

 

[Damage3245]

So… most is in agreement with the OP except for Damage and Xulrev

Correct. I think @Ant should apply the change and close the thread at this point.

You have to actually prove that the 7-A characters in One Piece scale to this 6-C+ calc.

It's not just Xulrev and I. Tetsucabrah doesn't agree with this scaling to the other Doflamingo officers either.

 

[Damage3245]

Count how many staff members have agreed with this upgrade.

Staff members agreeing that the calc is not an outlier is not the same thing as staff members being okay with upgrading every character.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

I'm fine with characters that are explicitly stronger than Pica scaling to this, but not anyone else.

Being the same rank or superior rank to someone has never been used to scale them. Otherwise the Boros generals would all scale to Geryuganshoop and the cadres would all scale to Gouketsu.

Can anyone really argue in good faith that 6-C Robin is legit?

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Tetsucabra. There is no good reason for why we should think that the admirals and similar do not have greater raw power than Pica.

Also, going by the Stampede movie, characters with this kind of ability infuse their constructs with haki, so Zoro should have overcome Pica's full power, and I think that we have scaled swordsmen to the characters they cut in the case of Bleach. Still, I agree that this is less reliable reasoning.

 

[Damage3245]

> I agree with Tetsucabra. There is no good reason for why we should think that the admirals and similar do not have greater raw power than Pica.

I don't quite think that's how the burden of proof should work here. We don't start with the assumptions that the Admirals are more powerful than this calc and look for reasons why it should not be the case.

You should be presenting reasons for why the Admirals, or anyone else, should be scaling to this calc.

If the argument is "I just can't believe the Admirals could be rated lower than this other character" then that's a fallacious argument.

 

[Antvasima]

It isn't. A raw power hierarchy is largely how One Piece fundamentally works, and High 6-C is a bare minimum for their power levels considering that the Yonkou are 6-B.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to ask Camero to comment here?

 

[Damage3245]

> A raw power hierarchy is largely how One Piece fundamentally works, and High 6-C is a bare minimum for their power levels considering that the Yonkou are 6-B.

I don't understand this. If that were true, why wouldn't the Admirals be rated that highly even before this calc came up?

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Is somebody willing to ask Camero to comment here?

If you were there, couldn't you have? Or are to trying to encourage independence?

 

[Antvasima]

@Damage

Because the lowest minimum feat to scale from was rated lower.

@TGOP

I cannot do everything, and also have a glitch that recurrently removes my notifications if I visit message walls.

Feel free to tell The Calaca that I would appreciate his help as well.

 

[Damage3245]

@Antvasima; the difference being that the Admirals actually scaled to that calc.

Can you explain how they scale to this calc without "Well, they should probably be stronger than it."

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

@TGOP

I cannot do everything, and also have a glitch that recurrently removes my notifications if I visit message walls.

I understand both of those. Actually, my glitch is a little different.

 

[Dr.Fix]

So… most is in agreement with the OP except for Damage and Xulrev

Correct. I think @Ant should apply the change and close the thread at this point.

You have to actually prove that the 7-A characters in One Piece scale to this 6-C+ calc.
It's not just Xulrev and I. Tetsucabrah doesn't agree with this scaling to the other Doflamingo officers either.

Same reasons they applied to the weaker calcs. All four officers have been ranked comparable since before I even joined the forum years ago. Zoro is self explanatory and has been cited a few times in this thread.

 

[Xulrev]

So we've gotten to a point where, to justify 6-C One Piece, we are grasping at straws and accepting 'well some people think it should probably maybe possibly scale so let's upgrade most of the verse that's in the spotlight currently'?

For wanting to maintain accuracy, this is pretty damn antithetical to it.

It's convenient that everyone is ignoring an accepted CRT and accepted calc for the scaling of the feat in question just to strongarm these upgrades through, and pretty damn telling of peoples' intent

 

[Ryuga21]

The main point here is Zoro scaling to Pica's golem, not Pica himself. Zoro one-shots Pica, idk how they both could have the same tier.

 

[Damage3245]

@Dr. Fix; the other officers don't scale to Pica's stone golem.

Therefore they don't scale to this calc, and most of the characters being proposed for upgrades aren't affected.

@Ryuga21; they have the same tier because there were able to fight each other for a while when neither of them were using Haki. Only when Zoro used Haki could he one-shot Pica.

 

[Ryuga21]

When Zoro get serious Pica's was one-shoted. Is the same thing with Akainu and Whitebeard.

 

[Eminiteable]

Damage that's dishonesty, the only opportunity Zoro got to finish off Pica was when Pica came out of the golem; thus when Pica was also using haki, implying Zoro can only do it with haki is dishonesty.

 

[Damage3245]

@Eminiteable; Zoro fought Pica outside of his golem before that.