A new verse-specific power for Hollow Knight?

[LightSoul8]

So, I'll just get to the point: to make a lot of HK profiles more cohesive, I'd like to go the Undertale route and make a new ability for Hollow Knight:

Essence Physiology

In Hollow Knight, Essence are the fragments of light that dreams and memories are composed of. Essence can take the forms of those who have passed away, the perceptions of bugs manifested (such as Grey Prince Zote), Higher Beings (such as The Radiance), the Dream Realm as a whole, and serve as the foundation for thoughts manifested (such as Godhome). Multiple types of entities are formed of Essence, and possess a number of unique abilities due to their physiology:

-Spirits: Spirits are the memories of bugs given form.
Abilities:
Inorganic Physiology and Light Manipulation: (Type 1. They are composed of Essence, which is fragmented light.)
Non-Physical Interaction and Extrasensory Perception: (Can see and interact with Essence.)
Invisibility and Intangibility: (Cannot be seen or interacted with without the Dream Nail.)
Incorporeality: (Spirits are groups of Essence merely taking the forms of deceased bugs.)
Immortality: (Types 1, 7, and 8. Dreams are "endless", and Spirits forever appear as they had before death. They are reliant on the memories of the bugs that they identify as existing.)
Abstract Existence and Limited Memory Manipulation: (Type 1-memories of deceased bugs. Spirits are the memories of deceased bugs, and will exist so long as they remember and identify with themselves. When the Spirits in the Spirits' Glade are destroyed by The Knight, Revek forgets about them and his purpose, and he forgets about himself as well, allowing The Knight to destroy him. The Warrior Dreams are defeated once they realize that the bugs that they thought they were are already dead, suggesting that disassociating from their identities causes them to revert back into solely Essence.)
This applies to: N/A
(Imgur links with scans to Essence being fragments of light, being memories, being the forms of those who have passed away, The Radiance being made of Essence, dreams being endless, and Revek forgetting about the other Spirits)


-Warrior Dreams: A sub-category of Spirits with that are lingering dreams of fallen warriors. These Spirits can interact with the material world.
Abilities:
All Spirit abilities
Teleportation and Flight: (All Warrior Dreams can teleport and float.)
Immortality and Regeneration: (Type 3 and High, respectively. Warrior Dreams can reform from exploding into Essence.)
Resistance To Deconstruction and Absorption: (Warrior Dreams can only be broken down into Essence particles and siphoned into the Dream Nail once they forget or disassociate with who they represent.)
This applies to: Markoth, Gorb, Marmu, Elder Hu, Galien, Xero, No Eyes
(Imgur link to Warrior Dreams being lingering dreams of fallen warriors)
(Youtube link to Elder Hu teleporting, exploding into Essence and reforming, and floating at 0:22, 2:39, and practically the entire video, respectively)

Dream beings: An overarching category for bugs that exist within the Dream Realm.
Abilities:
Inorganic Physiology and Light Manipulation: (Type 1. They are composed of Essence, which is fragmented light.)
Non-Physical Interaction and Extrasensory Perception: (Can see and interact with Essence.)
Immortality: (Types 1 and 9. Dreams are eternal. They exist solely within the Dream Realm.)
This applies to: Grimmkin (all Keys), Zotelings, Kingsmould

Dream Identities: Dream Identities are bugs' perceptions of themselves, solely manifested within the Dream Realm. These Identities are accessed by entering the dreams of the bugs. While the Dream Identities exist solely within the Dream Realm, deceased bugs with Dream Identities also have Spirits.
Abilities:
All Dream Being abilities
Immortality: (Types 4 and 8. Reliant on the waking bug being alive, as White Defender can be endlessly challenged and destroyed due to the Dung Defender being alive.)
Resurrection: (Dream Identities can restore themselves from being destroyed so long as their waking selves are alive.)
Empowerment: (They are always more powerful than their waking selves due to being fueled by their emotions and thoughts.)
Subjective Reality and Creation: (Bugs can create entire castles in their dreams.)
Abstract Existence: (Type 1-the perceptions of waking bugs. Dream Identities are the perceptions that their waking bugs or other bugs have of them: Grey Prince Zote is the manifestation of Bretta's fantasies about Zote, White Defender is the manifestation of Dung Defender's pride in being a Great Knight, Nightmare King Grimm is the manifestation of the Nightmare's Heart acting through Grimm, etc. So long as the waking bug holds these perceptions, the Dream Identities will still exist: Grey Prince Zote continues to exist after Bretta loses faith in Zote because Zote views himself as a Prince and White Defender continues to exist because Dung Defender holds on to his pride.)
Resistance To Deconstruction and Absorption: (Dream Identities cannot be broken down into Essence and siphoned into the Dream Nail, but their Spirits can be.)
This applies to: Zote (second Key), Grimm (second Key), Dung Defender, False Knight (second Key), Broken Vessel (second Key), and Soul Master (second Key)
(Imgur link with a scan for bugs with Dream Identities also having Spirits)

Gods: The minds of immensely powerful beings called to Godhome.
All Dream Identity abilities
Statistics Amplification: (Can deal double damage and one-shot The Knight on Ascended and Radiant difficulties, respectively.
Superior Subjective Reality: (Of their arenas.)
Duplication and Transformation: (Gods can duplicate themselves, as shown by Vengefly King, and take new forms, as shown by Winged Nosk.)
This applies to: Hollow Knight (first Key), The Radiance (third Key), Nosk, Nailmasters Oro & Mato, Paintmaster Sheo, and Great Nailsage Sly
(Imgur link with a scan for double Vengefly King action)


Hopefully this can be the first big step to getting Hollow Knight on track.

 

[deonment]

Firstly I very much disagree with the splitting of this into multiple sub-physiologies there is not enough evidence to show that these are separate physiologies rather than just being

Immortality: (Types 1, 7, and 8. Dreams are "endless", and Spirits forever appear as they had before death. They are reliant on the memories of the bugs that they identify as existing.)
Abstract Existence and Limited Memory Manipulation: (Type 1-memories of deceased bugs. Spirits are the memories of deceased bugs, and will exist so long as they remember and identify with themselves. When the Spirits in the Spirits' Glade are destroyed by The Knight, Revek forgets about them and his purpose, and he forgets about himself as well, allowing The Knight to destroy him. The Warrior Dreams are defeated once they realize that the bugs that they thought they were are already dead, suggesting that disassociating from their identities causes them to revert back into solely Essence.)
This applies to: N/A

I disagree with type 8 and them just being the memories.
Firstly about them solely being the memories, essence in hollow knight is very much identified as the base substance that constructs everything mental, including thoughts, memories, and dreams and it doesn't differentiate between these states of being, especially when it is indicated that the dream realm is not only the realm of dreams but of all thoughts in general.
Secondly, they are not reliant on those memories, it is simply just that they cease resisting due to various reasons (see no eyes) or are just too utterly worn out from fighting you (see markoth), your example of Revek doesn't work because it is simply that Revek stops fighting back because she has no reason to have any resistance, she has forgotten everyone in the glade, and then herself.

-Warrior Dreams: A sub-category of Spirits with that are lingering dreams of fallen warriors. These Spirits can interact with the material world.
Abilities:

This is just stuff that would be applied to the pages of the warrior dreams rather than a physiology page in general

Immortality and Regeneration: (Type 3 and High, respectively. Warrior Dreams can reform from exploding into Essence.)

This is less regen and more high level body control.

Resistance To Deconstruction and Absorption: (Warrior Dreams can only be broken down into Essence particles and siphoned into the Dream Nail once they forget or disassociate with who they represent.)

See my above point about the type 8

Inorganic Physiology and Light Manipulation: (Type 1. They are composed of Essence, which is fragmented light.)

Dream beings are as abstract as other beings composed of essence as essence itself is innately abstract.

Immortality: (Types 1 and 9. Dreams are eternal. They exist solely within the Dream Realm.)

They do not have type 9, they do not have another self in another plane of existence.

Immortality: (Types 4 and 8. Reliant on the waking bug being alive, as White Defender can be endlessly challenged and destroyed due to the Dung Defender being alive.)

Type 4, sure, not really type 8 though.
Yeah funny thing is that the dream realm in general seems to be independent to a degree of the real world, in that things in the dream world only influence the real world but not vice versa. See for example the entire situation with gray prince zote and bretta's dream self, despite bretta becoming entirely disillusioned with zote and having left dirtmouth. The entire dream still exists, and dream bretta still is highly obsessed over gray prince zote or how dead people such as the false knight can have dream selves.

Empowerment: (They are always more powerful than their waking selves due to being fueled by their emotions and thoughts.)

That is just higher stats rather than having empowerment

Subjective Reality and Creation: (Bugs can create entire castles in their dreams.)

I disagree with subjective reality.

Abstract Existence: (Type 1-the perceptions of waking bugs. Dream Identities are the perceptions that their waking bugs or other bugs have of them: Grey Prince Zote is the manifestation of Bretta's fantasies about Zote, White Defender is the manifestation of Dung Defender's pride in being a Great Knight, Nightmare King Grimm is the manifestation of the Nightmare's Heart acting through Grimm, etc. So long as the waking bug holds these perceptions, the Dream Identities will still exist: Grey Prince Zote continues to exist after Bretta loses faith in Zote because Zote views himself as a Prince and White Defender continues to exist because Dung Defender holds on to his pride.)

See my above point about dreams and the dream realm along with the fact that literal dead people who no one else would know about have these "dream identities".
The point about GPZ isn't valid as it is very clear that it is created from bretta's delusions alone given the descriptor from its hunter's journal entry

Figment of an obsessed mind. Lacks grace but becomes stronger with every defeat.

Zote is not at all obsessed.

Resistance To Deconstruction and Absorption: (Dream Identities cannot be broken down into Essence and siphoned into the Dream Nail, but their Spirits can be.)

We have no reason to presume the spirit and the identity are different things, so my point about warrior spirits and them no longer resisting should apply here.

Gods: The minds of immensely powerful beings called to Godhome.

This is pointless

Statistics Amplification: (Can deal double damage and one-shot The Knight on Ascended and Radiant difficulties, respectively.

This is just having a higher AP

Superior Subjective Reality: (Of their arenas.)

They don't actually actively change their arenas beyond its initial state, so.

Duplication and Transformation: (Gods can duplicate themselves, as shown by Vengefly King, and take new forms, as shown by Winged Nosk.)

No reason to say this should apply to all gods given most of them do not show this capability at all when it would be quite useful for NKG to just spawn in a second one of himself and absolutely dumpster the player.

 

[LightSoul8]

Warrior Dreams can only be broken down into Essence particles and siphoned into the Dream Nail onceFirstly I very much disagree with the splitting of this into multiple sub-physiologies there is not enough evidence to show that these are separate physiologies rather than just being

I'm largely okay with that, though I still think that Spirits and beings in the Dream Realm should be at least somewhat differentiated because False Knight's DR version is Failed Champion whereas its Spirit version is just the Maggot.

Dream beings are as abstract as other beings composed of essence as essence itself is innately abstract.

Essence is indisputably light, and light is inorganic. Why Essence is seemingly both abstract (dreams, memories, etc.) and also material (light) is beyond me, but it is so regardless.

Firstly about them solely being the memories, essence in hollow knight is very much identified as the base substance that constructs everything mental, including thoughts, memories, and dreams and it doesn't differentiate between these states of being, especially when it is indicated that the dream realm is not only the realm of dreams but of all thoughts in general.

I did mean to put that, but I guess I got caught up in making sub-physiologies.

Secondly, they are not reliant on those memories, it is simply just that they cease resisting due to various reasons (see no eyes) or are just too utterly worn out from fighting you (see markoth), your example of Revek doesn't work because it is simply that Revek stops fighting back because she has no reason to have any resistance, she has forgotten everyone in the glade, and then herself.

Again, I do agree with most of this, but I do think Spirits should keep Limited Memory Manipulation because Revek doesn't just give up because he knows the Spirits are dead, he gives up because he cannot remember the Spirits at all, meaning that Spirits do seem to erase themselves from others' memories upon ceasing to resist.

This is just stuff that would be applied to the pages of the warrior dreams rather than a physiology page in general

Agreed

This is less regen and more high level body control.

I'd agree if it was indicated that the Warrior Dreams consciously chose to reform, but there's no reason to assume that is the case. I mean, Deadpool can reform himself and that's technically Body Control, but he has his Immortality and Regeneration regardless.

See my above point about the type 8

It should probably just go to the Warrior Dreams' profiles then and be changed to "Warrior Dreams can only be broken down into Essence particles and siphoned into the Dream Nail once they have been defeated", because most Spirits (barring Revek) are one-shot by the Dream Nail.

They do not have type 9, they do not have another self in another plane of existence

Misunderstood type 9, my bad

Type 4, sure, not really type 8 though.
Yeah funny thing is that the dream realm in general seems to be independent to a degree of the real world, in that things in the dream world only influence the real world but not vice versa. See for example the entire situation with gray prince zote and bretta's dream self, despite bretta becoming entirely disillusioned with zote and having left dirtmouth. The entire dream still exists, and dream bretta still is highly obsessed over gray prince zote or how dead people such as the false knight can have dream selves.

Agree with the stuff regarding Bretta and Zote, but I'd still give White Defender type 8 and not, say, give Failed Champion type 8 because you can rechallenge White Defender by entering Dung Defender's dream again, but the False Knight's dream can't be accessed again because he's a Spirit.

See my above point about dreams and the dream realm along with the fact that literal dead people who no one else would know about have these "dream identities".
The point about GPZ isn't valid as it is very clear that it is created from bretta's delusions alone given the descriptor from its hunter's journal entry

Agreed but Essence Physiology should still entail Abstract Existence because Essence is abstract.

This is pointless

Agreed

This is just having a higher AP

Fair enough

They don't actually actively change their arenas beyond its initial state, so.

Fair enough

No reason to say this should apply to all gods given most of them do not show this capability at all when it would be quite useful for NKG to just spawn in a second one of himself and absolutely dumpster the player.

If Vengefly King can duplicate himself, I'm pretty sure most bosses could upscale from that. Granted, it's actually more likely that it's just summoning a second Vengefly King, so Duplication (which should actually probably be Summoning) should only apply to bosses that there are multiple of (Vengefly King, Gruz Mother, Brooding Mawlek, and Soul Warrior). We could probably just assume that Transformation is Nosk-exclusive since it is a shapeshifter.

I've been sitting on these Hollow Knight upgrades in my Notepad for three years, and I'm fairly new to posting on here, so I appreciate the feedback and corrections.

 

[deonment]

Essence is indisputably light, and light is inorganic. Why Essence is seemingly both abstract (dreams, memories, etc.) and also material (light) is beyond me, but it is so regardless.

Because it can be both, I was just simply pointing out how they should also have AE

I'm largely okay with that, though I still think that Spirits and beings in the Dream Realm should be at least somewhat differentiated because False Knight's DR version is Failed Champion whereas its Spirit version is just the Maggot.

Eh, kinda, not really, at most it would be kinda be splitting hairs at that point imo

Again, I do agree with most of this, but I do think Spirits should keep Limited Memory Manipulation because Revek doesn't just give up because he knows the Spirits are dead, he gives up because he cannot remember the Spirits at all, meaning that Spirits do seem to erase themselves from others' memories upon ceasing to resist.

Fair enough

I'd agree if it was indicated that the Warrior Dreams consciously chose to reform, but there's no reason to assume that is the case. I mean, Deadpool can reform himself and that's technically Body Control, but he has his Immortality and Regeneration regardless.

I mean body control doesn't have a be conscious, and we do see other examples of dream beings doing this for example the radiance.

It should probably just go to the Warrior Dreams' profiles then and be changed to "Warrior Dreams can only be broken down into Essence particles and siphoned into the Dream Nail once they have been defeated", because most Spirits (barring Revek) are one-shot by the Dream Nail.

Yeah

Agree with the stuff regarding Bretta and Zote, but I'd still give White Defender type 8 and not, say, give Failed Champion type 8 because you can rechallenge White Defender by entering Dung Defender's dream again, but the False Knight's dream can't be accessed again because he's a Spirit.

I mean maybe, but like as I have said dream realm beings are shown as far more independent of the waking world than one would think, but sure I would think it should just be profile specifc however.

Agreed but Essence Physiology should still entail Abstract Existence because Essence is abstract.

ofc

If Vengefly King can duplicate himself, I'm pretty sure most bosses could upscale from that. Granted, it's actually more likely that it's just summoning a second Vengefly King, so Duplication (which should actually probably be Summoning) should only apply to bosses that there are multiple of (Vengefly King, Gruz Mother, Brooding Mawlek, and Soul Warrior). We could probably just assume that Transformation is Nosk-exclusive since it is a shapeshifter.

Yes, summoning is better and is actually something we know the vengfly king and gruz mother already do, so it should be profile-specific instead.
and sure for nosk

I've been sitting on these Hollow Knight upgrades in my Notepad for three years, and I'm fairly new to posting on here, so I appreciate the feedback and corrections.

Is aight, did pretty good, at least you aren't me sitting on my fat ass instead of working on an important crt for the verse (I should have already finished and released my soul=mind=life force crt by now).

 

[LightSoul8]

Because it can be both, I was just simply pointing out how they should also have AE

Oh, okay

Eh, kinda, not really, at most it would be kinda be splitting hairs at that point imo

That's fair

I mean body control doesn't have a be conscious, and we do see other examples of dream beings doing this for example the radiance.

I guess my question is: is there any reason it couldn't be regeneration/immortality and body control? Because it is technically both.

I mean maybe, but like as I have said dream realm beings are shown as far more independent of the waking world than one would think, but sure I would think it should just be profile specifc however.

Yeah, I agree with profile-specific. Type 8 could just be White Defender.

 

[deonment]

I guess my question is: is there any reason it couldn't be regeneration/immortality and body control? Because it is technically both.

Maybe, idk. I would think if they had regen of that level instead of body control you think they would use it to regen in battle or what have you.

Yeah, I agree with profile-specific. Type 8 could just be White Defender.

NKG should also likely get it from both the nightmare heart and grimm.

 

[LightSoul8]

Maybe, idk. I would think if they had regen of that level instead of body control you think they would use it to regen in battle or what have you.

Honestly, I'll concede in just putting it as Body Control because it's only done once per Warrior Dream fight anyways. If they reformed more consistently, I'd push harder for Regen/Immortality.

NKG should also likely get it from both the nightmare heart and grimm.

Agreed how did I forget about the sexyman

So, here would be the updated Essence Physiology:

------------------------------------------
Essence Physiology:
In Hollow Knight, Essence is an ethereal substance that forms and exists as fragmented light and the dreams, memories, and thoughts of bugs. Additionally, Essence comprises various beings found throughout Hallownest and the Dream Realm, and even comprising the Dream Realm itself. These beings can manifest as Spirits or bugs within the Dream Realm. Being made of Essence grants:

•Inorganic Physiology and Light Manipulation (Type 1. Essence is fragmented light.)

•Non-Physical Interaction and Extrasensory Perception (Can see and interact with Essence.)

•Invisibility and Intangibility (Essence beings cannot be seen or interacted with without the Dream Nail.)

•Immortality (Types 1 and 7. Dreams are endless, and Spirits remain in the state they take without aging. The Dream versions of waking bosses are eternally in their idealized state. Spirits are the lingering memories of bugs.)

•Abstract Existence and Limited Memory Manipulation (Type 1. Essence makes up memories, thoughts, regrets, and dreams, including the Dream Realm as a whole. The Spirits in the Spirits' Glade being destroyed by The Knight causes Revek to lose his memories of them.)

Essence Physiology applies to: The Radiance, Zote (Only Grey Prince Zote.), Grimm (Only Nightmare King Grimm.), Dung Defender (Only White Defender.), False Knight (Only Failed Champion and as a Spirit.), Broken Vessel (Only Lost Kin and as a Spirit.), Soul Master (Only Soul Tyrant and as a Spirit.), Markoth, Gorb, Marmu, Elder Hu, Galien, Xero, No Eyes, Grimmkin, and Zotelings.

I didn't apply EP to Pure Vessel, Winged Nosk, Brothers Oro & Mato, Paintmaster Sheo, Great Nailsage Sly, and Kingsmould because those all exist and/or existed in the waking world.
------------------------------------------

Additionally, some of the abilities that were included in the original Essence Physiology draft should be applied to specific bugs:

•Teleportation and Flight (All Warrior Dreams can teleport and float.)
-Applies to: Markoth, Gorb, Marmu, Elder Hu, Xero, Galien, and No Eyes

•Body Control (Can reform themselves from splitting into Essence particles.)
-Applies to: Markoth, Gorb, Marmu, Elder Hu, Xero, Galien, and No Eyes

•Limited Resistance To Deconstruction and Absorption (Can only be destroyed and absorbed by the Dream Nail after being defeated, whereas most Spirits can destroyed and absorbed by the Dream Nail at any point.)
-Applies to: Markoth, Gorb, Marmu, Elder Hu, Xero, Galien, and No Eyes

•Immortality (Type 4. Will reappear in their dream even if they were previously destroyed.)
-Applies to: Zote (Only Grey Prince Zote.), Dung Defender (Only White Defender.), Grimm (Only Nightmare King Grimm.)

•Immortality (Type 8. Reliant on the existence of their waking selves' dreams.)
-Applies to: Dung Defender (Only White Defender.), Grimm (Only Nightmare King Grimm.)

•Summoning (Can summon another bug that is the same species as itself.)
-Applies to: Vengefly (Only Vengefly King.), Gruzzer (Only Gruz Mother.)

•Transformation (Into Winged Nosk.)
-Applies to: Nosk

------------------------------------------

As one final note to end this off: I kind of assumed that this was silently agreed on, but just in case: I think that all bosses should be capable of doing anything they can in Godhome also in the real world. So, Vengefly King has Summoning, Hornet and Grimm have Extrasensory Perception, Nosk has Transformation, Pure Vessel and Winged Nosk exist, etc.

I'm hardly done with this verse though. I plan on trying to fix the Keys for the profiles, proposing a bunch of abilities to be added, using four Moss Chargers forming the Massive Moss Charger to calc AP for average enemies, and trying to add a bunch of new profiles for the other bosses, the two mini-bosses (Revek and Pale Lurker), some NPCs, and a lot of enemies. It's definitely a lot to do, but like I said: I've been sitting on this for years.

 

[deonment]

Essence Physiology:
In Hollow Knight, Essence is an ethereal substance that forms and exists as fragmented light and the dreams, memories, and thoughts of bugs. Additionally, Essence comprises various beings found throughout Hallownest and the Dream Realm, and even comprising the Dream Realm itself. These beings can manifest as Spirits or bugs within the Dream Realm. Being made of Essence grants:

•Inorganic Physiology and Light Manipulation (Type 1. Essence is fragmented light.)

•Non-Physical Interaction and Extrasensory Perception (Can see and interact with Essence.)

•Invisibility and Intangibility (Essence beings cannot be seen or interacted with without the Dream Nail.)

•Immortality (Types 1 and 7. Dreams are endless, and Spirits remain in the state they take without aging. The Dream versions of waking bosses are eternally in their idealized state. Spirits are the lingering memories of bugs.)

•Abstract Existence and Limited Memory Manipulation (Type 1. Essence makes up memories, thoughts, regrets, and dreams, including the Dream Realm as a whole. The Spirits in the Spirits' Glade being destroyed by The Knight causes Revek to lose his memories of them.)

Yeah this works, though they should also have incorporeality as part of the invisibility and intangibility.

Additionally, some of the abilities that were included in the original Essence Physiology draft should be applied to specific bugs:

•Teleportation and Flight (All Warrior Dreams can teleport and float.)
-Applies to: Markoth, Gorb, Marmu, Elder Hu, Xero, Galien, and No Eyes

•Body Control (Can reform themselves from splitting into Essence particles.)
-Applies to: Markoth, Gorb, Marmu, Elder Hu, Xero, Galien, and No Eyes

•Limited Resistance To Deconstruction and Absorption (Can only be destroyed and absorbed by the Dream Nail after being defeated, whereas most Spirits can destroyed and absorbed by the Dream Nail at any point.)
-Applies to: Markoth, Gorb, Marmu, Elder Hu, Xero, Galien, and No Eyes

•Immortality (Type 4. Will reappear in their dream even if they were previously destroyed.)
-Applies to: Zote (Only Grey Prince Zote.), Dung Defender (Only White Defender.), Grimm (Only Nightmare King Grimm.)

•Immortality (Type 8. Reliant on the existence of their waking selves' dreams.)
-Applies to: Dung Defender (Only White Defender.), Grimm (Only Nightmare King Grimm.)

•Summoning (Can summon another bug that is the same species as itself.)
-Applies to: Vengefly (Only Vengefly King.), Gruzzer (Only Gruz Mother.)

•Transformation (Into Winged Nosk.)
-Applies to: Nosk

Yeah

As one final note to end this off: I kind of assumed that this was silently agreed on, but just in case: I think that all bosses should be capable of doing anything they can in Godhome also in the real world. So, Vengefly King has Summoning, Hornet and Grimm have Extrasensory Perception, Nosk has Transformation, Pure Vessel and Winged Nosk exist, etc.

Sure? I would just take a second opinion on this from the other supporters though.

 

[LightSoul8]

Yeah this works, though they should also have incorporeality as part of the invisibility and intangibility.

Sounds good

Sure? I would just take a second opinion on this from the other supporters though.

Oh, yeah, I didn't intend to do any of this without getting anyone else involved. Like I said, I'm new to posting, so I'll need all of the help that I can get. Tbh, I don't really know where to start. I know that @Armorchompy told me to let him know of any CRTs of Hollow Knight I make because he can assess them and get some other HK supporters on board. I messaged him about this thread when I made it but you responded first (granted, it turned out pretty well regardless). I just need to figure out how to work alongside this community.

 

[deonment]

Sounds good

Oh, yeah, I didn't intend to do any of this without getting anyone else involved. Like I said, I'm new to posting, so I'll need all of the help that I can get. Tbh, I don't really know where to start. I know that @Armorchompy told me to let him know of any CRTs of Hollow Knight I make because he can assess them and get some other HK supporters on board. I messaged him about this thread when I made it but you responded first (granted, it turned out pretty well regardless). I just need to figure out how to work alongside this community.

Yeah, armor told me about it on discord, and for other supporters off the top of my head I can only think of @Roachman40 (who armor already pinged on discord too along with me)

 

[Armorchompy]

Honestly, I'll concede in just putting it as Body Control because it's only done once per Warrior Dream fight anyways. If they reformed more consistently, I'd push harder for Regen/Immortality.

Agreed how did I forget about the sexyman

So, here would be the updated Essence Physiology:

------------------------------------------
Essence Physiology:
In Hollow Knight, Essence is an ethereal substance that forms and exists as fragmented light and the dreams, memories, and thoughts of bugs. Additionally, Essence comprises various beings found throughout Hallownest and the Dream Realm, and even comprising the Dream Realm itself. These beings can manifest as Spirits or bugs within the Dream Realm. Being made of Essence grants:

•Inorganic Physiology and Light Manipulation (Type 1. Essence is fragmented light.)

•Non-Physical Interaction and Extrasensory Perception (Can see and interact with Essence.)

•Invisibility and Intangibility (Essence beings cannot be seen or interacted with without the Dream Nail.)

•Immortality (Types 1 and 7. Dreams are endless, and Spirits remain in the state they take without aging. The Dream versions of waking bosses are eternally in their idealized state. Spirits are the lingering memories of bugs.)

•Abstract Existence and Limited Memory Manipulation (Type 1. Essence makes up memories, thoughts, regrets, and dreams, including the Dream Realm as a whole. The Spirits in the Spirits' Glade being destroyed by The Knight causes Revek to lose his memories of them.)

Essence Physiology applies to: The Radiance, Zote (Only Grey Prince Zote.), Grimm (Only Nightmare King Grimm.), Dung Defender (Only White Defender.), False Knight (Only Failed Champion and as a Spirit.), Broken Vessel (Only Lost Kin and as a Spirit.), Soul Master (Only Soul Tyrant and as a Spirit.), Markoth, Gorb, Marmu, Elder Hu, Galien, Xero, No Eyes, Grimmkin, and Zotelings.

I didn't apply EP to Pure Vessel, Winged Nosk, Brothers Oro & Mato, Paintmaster Sheo, Great Nailsage Sly, and Kingsmould because those all exist and/or existed in the waking world.

Seems fine.

As one final note to end this off: I kind of assumed that this was silently agreed on, but just in case: I think that all bosses should be capable of doing anything they can in Godhome also in the real world. So, Vengefly King has Summoning, Hornet and Grimm have Extrasensory Perception, Nosk has Transformation, Pure Vessel and Winged Nosk exist, etc.

I'm hardly done with this verse though. I plan on trying to fix the Keys for the profiles, proposing a bunch of abilities to be added, using four Moss Chargers forming the Massive Moss Charger to calc AP for average enemies, and trying to add a bunch of new profiles for the other bosses, the two mini-bosses (Revek and Pale Lurker), some NPCs, and a lot of enemies. It's definitely a lot to do, but like I said: I've been sitting on this for years.

Ah, for the record, I believe the False Knight feat was meant to be removed given that the area he destroys was already kinda collapsing and gets battered by him throughout all the fight, I just don't think anyone got around to it.

What exactly do you want calculated regarding the Massive Moss Charger? Because just putting the leaves together isn't gonna be a noteworthy feat, do you mean KE?

Oh, yeah, I didn't intend to do any of this without getting anyone else involved. Like I said, I'm new to posting, so I'll need all of the help that I can get. Tbh, I don't really know where to start. I know that @Armorchompy told me to let him know of any CRTs of Hollow Knight I make because he can assess them and get some other HK supporters on board. I messaged him about this thread when I made it but you responded first (granted, it turned out pretty well regardless). I just need to figure out how to work alongside this community.

Yeah, I let Deon debate it out cause he knows the verse better than me (and because it was getting pretty late), but I was watching the thread.

 

[LightSoul8]

Ah, for the record, I believe the False Knight feat was meant to be removed given that the area he destroys was already kinda collapsing and gets battered by him throughout all the fight, I just don't think anyone got around to it.

That's kind of a shame, but it makes sense.

What exactly do you want calculated regarding the Massive Moss Charger? Because just putting the leaves together isn't gonna be a noteworthy feat, do you mean KE?

Yeah, KE feats are probably the only ones this verse can get, though given the characters' sizes, I don't imagine they'll be very impressive. You could also probably do KE for Soul Master's Desolate Dive, I guess. Would The Hollow Knight breaking the Black Egg Temple door by screaming and The Knight shattering the former's chains (at 0:41 and 3:06, respectively) be valid feats? Also, even if we didn't give the Moss Chargers one-fourth of that MMC feat, they'd still probably be "at most [the tier of the bosses]" since they can consistently harm The Knight, and The Hunter, who considers early-game Knight an equal, states that a good amount of these enemies can be legitimate threats.

Yeah, I let Deon debate it out cause he knows the verse better than me (and because it was getting pretty late), but I was watching the thread.

Oh, okay

 

[Armorchompy]

That's kind of a shame, but it makes sense.

I think the feat planned to be replaced was shattering the big ass door at the end of the tutorial, just never got around to it.

Yeah, KE feats are probably the only ones this verse can get, though given the characters' sizes, I don't imagine they'll be very impressive. You could also probably do KE for Soul Master's Desolate Dive, I guess. Would The Hollow Knight breaking the Black Egg Temple door by screaming

I don't really think that's what's going on though, the HK is screaming afterwards, the door is destroyed just by removing its seals. You can maybe argue it scales to the Dreamers?

and The Knight shattering the former's chains (at 0:41 and 3:06, respectively) be valid feats?

This would, it just wouldn't be worth much.

Also, even if we didn't give the Moss Chargers one-fourth of that MMC feat, they'd still probably be "at most [the tier of the bosses]" since they can consistently harm The Knight, and The Hunter, who considers early-game Knight an equal, states that a good amount of these enemies can be legitimate threats.

You just linked to the Primal Aspid three times. Which, yeah, fair, but that's through poison. I think the current agreement is that enemies that deal 2-masks of damage scale to the Knight, while 1-mask ones don't.

 

[LightSoul8]

I think the feat planned to be replaced was shattering the big ass door at the end of the tutorial, just never got around to it

I guess that works, though that door's already kind of cracked too

I don't really think that's what's going on though, the HK is screaming afterwards, the door is destroyed just by removing its seals. You can maybe argue it scales to the Dreamers?

Fair enough

You just linked to the Primal Aspid three times. Which, yeah, fair, but that's through poison. I think the current agreement is that enemies that deal 2-masks of damage scale to the Knight, while 1-mask ones don't.

That's what I get for trying to use mobile. I meant to link Crystal Crawler, Great Hopper, and Great Husk Sentry (though that one does two masks anyways)

 

[Armorchompy]

Hm, fair enough but idk

 

[LightSoul8]

I guess-first things first-how could I go about trying to get Essence Physiology made into an ability?

 

[Armorchompy]

i dunno, you'd have to make a page in a sandbox and get it approved here. although honestly you could also just add the P&A to the pages, it's not a massive amount

 

[LightSoul8]

i dunno, you'd have to make a page in a sandbox and get it approved here. although honestly you could also just add the P&A to the pages, it's not a massive amount

I made my version 1.0 of the Sandbox, a couple of things are still a bit choppy such as the quality of the screenshot and the Discussions Template (because I don't really know how to do the latter and I couldn't find an image with better quality and size for the former), but I'll get to that soon.

 

[LightSoul8]

Updated the Sandbox's picture. I couldn't find any 400 px*400 px images so I used a 300*300 one instead.

Also, I had added it prematurely, but I removed it so I could ask: would Essence Physiology also grant Dream Manipulation given that Essence comprises dreams and the Dream Realm, and that Essence beings in the Dream Realm can seemingly control it to an extent for creating arenas, altering the backgrounds, etc.?

 

[Armorchompy]

By the way, you're in luck, apparently the power ability requirement is 10 abilities, which you just hit on the dot. Page seems fine enough. I'd put the powers in a bullet point list.

 

[LightSoul8]

By the way, you're in luck, apparently the power ability requirement is 10 abilities, which you just hit on the dot. Page seems fine enough. I'd put the powers in a bullet point list.

Great! This thread states that I'd need at least five users to support Essence Physiology for it to properly qualify, so:

Should Essence Physiology be established?

E.P.? More like "Excellent Power"! (Yes): 2- @deonment , @Roachman40

E.P.? More like "Extremely Pointless". (No):

E.P.? How many tracks are in it? (Neutral/undecided): 1- @Armorchompy

 

[deonment]

Yeah it should work

 

[Armorchompy]

idk

 

[LightSoul8]

idk

I'll put that under undecided, then

 

[LightSoul8]

@Roachman40 could I get your opinion on this?

 

[Roachman40]

looks good

 

[deonment]

bump

 

[LightSoul8]

bump

Honestly, I forgot this thread existed. Would it be necro to try to get some other people on it?

 

[deonment]

No, don't think so

 

[LightSoul8]

Honestly, after much consideration, I'm thinking of closing the thread and not making EP, although I still advocate for the characters getting these abilities. It'd just be much better to have, say, Markoth have "SHP, Immortality, Dream Manip, Incorporeality, etc." than "SHP, Essence Physiology". If no one wants it to stay up after a week, then I'll close it.