• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Hollow Knight size revision

Arceus0x

Arceus0x

15,592
10,516
Here we go again boys.
It is time that we revise HK's size.

Now the current size assumptions for HK are based on the Mantises that we fight in Fungal wastes. Strictly speaking there are many different bugs you can use in place of them. What we need is something more blatant and consistent with its portrayal.

Today I heard of the raindrop theory for HK's size. Raindrops are small = bugs are human sized. Now human sized is an overstatement, sure. What I did want, however, is to figure out just how big the bugs actually are compared to raindrops.
That is how I made this calc and found out that The Knight is actually 26.4 cm tall.

Why are raindrops consistent? Are they more consistent than Mantises or other bugs? I think yes, actually. Raindrops go from 0.5 to 4mm but overall wikipedia says they're around 2mm on average without any deformation. This size is also supported by this site. Then there's the fact that these raindrops are specifically notable drops of water since it is a small lake leaking through the ceiling. Water droplets from leaks gather up and then fall, meaning that they cannot be aerosol since that wouldn't happen due to surface tension. It can't be mist or anything since they very much hard drop onto the ground with a clear sound rather than get carrier around by the air. If the bugs were smaller then it wouldn't make sense for the raindrops to be this small and yet fall down heavily, since if they were smaller (2cm/132 = 0.015cm) they'd basically become aerosol, which wouldn't work here at all and would have different physics.

Additionally it is surprisingly consistent.
-It was revealed that Hornet can throw her nail 30 yards or ~27m. This is a lot, maybe too much, but it makes more sense for her range to be below 100x her size rather than like 1000x. The statement may in theory be an outlier but this here post managed to get close results to mine (off by 10cm) by using her potential range as a point of measure.
-There are bugs that are actually bug-sized in the Quirrel comic.
-Fall damage not existing feels consistent with how bugs irl are actually very light and even the larger ones wouldn't feel much effects (Goliath beetle is 25cm long and weighs around 100 grams), not to mention their lack of an inner skeleton would help a lot.
-The way the weight of stuff as well as the sound design is shown in the game feels larger than the size of the average desk drawer. We've got bigger bugs like FK causing tremors and stuff with just its jumps and managed to destroy the platform it was on too. The way the mechanisms for bigger doors release echoing sound and cause everything to shake leads me to believe they're bigger as well. If the area was small, sound would reach must faster and echo much less.

Overall, the droplets are legit, they should be used to scale the knight and the rest of the bugs.
 
Last edited:
I think it's fine given the evidence, and the calc is accepted so I have no issues with this
 
Thought it'd be fun to try doing a speed calc with the new knight height, because "below average human" seemed slow. Calc here, I've never done a calc before so sorry if its unhelpful
 
Ghostblock said:
Thought it'd be fun to try doing a speed calc with the new knight height, because "below average human" seemed slow. Calc here, I've never done a calc before so sorry if its unhelpful
Click to expand...
you sure it happens in 1 frame?
Either way I think there's more to scale here. The Knight moving relative to electric charges from lumaflies is likely supersonic
 
Arceus0x said:
you sure it happens in 1 frame?
Either way I think there's more to scale here. The Knight moving relative to electric charges from lumaflies is likely supersonic
Click to expand...
I'm sure it happens in 1 frame because I used the frame by frame button on youtube and it was the first frame quirrel appears in. Either way you're probably right about the lumaflies, I just didn't think about that. I'll see if I can put together a quick calc using them.
 
Below average human speed always seemed weird. Most bugs are actually pretty fast so even considering bug speeds it should be higher.

Maybe you could get decent results using something like Knight dodging the electricity against Uumuu or something like that.
Oh and I obviously agree with the size revision
 
Using slashes is probably better and more useful since what matters is Knights combat speed, not traveling through cdash
 
Game mechanics. The player needs help to dodge the laser, that's the telegraph, it cannot be automatic or instantaneous because otherwise it wouldn't be possible to dodge
 
ElAlekaPL said:
Game mechanics. The player needs help to dodge the laser, that's the telegraph, it cannot be automatic or instantaneous because otherwise it wouldn't be possible to dodge
Click to expand...
first off, you'd need to prove that it is actually being telegraphed as a game mechanic rather than an in-game thing. There are games like Undertale where that is provable since we get that exclamation point thing but here every light creating entity has a pre-beam of sorts and it is seamlessly incorporated into the game.
second off, even if you were right and those were game mechanics, TK cannot actually dodge them, as at most it would be some form of analytical prediction. To actually dodge something and scale to it at the same time you need it to be fired and then you need to move away as it is flying towards you. Instead, the beams here are actually instant. Here is the shot difference between two frames

I left the timer and fps in so you can see the difference. The non-harmful beam of light pulsates slightly a few times before at one point firing at full power with a difference of 1 frame. I tried this using 60fps and had the same result.
Basically, the Knight cannot scale to it even if you were right.
 
Arceus0x said:
first off, you'd need to prove that it is actually being telegraphed as a game mechanic rather than an in-game thing. There are games like Undertale where that is provable since we get that exclamation point thing but here every light creating entity has a pre-beam of sorts and it is seamlessly incorporated into the game.
second off, even if you were right and those were game mechanics, TK cannot actually dodge them, as at most it would be some form of analytical prediction. To actually dodge something and scale to it at the same time you need it to be fired and then you need to move away as it is flying towards you. Instead, the beams here are actually instant. Here is the shot difference between two frames

I left the timer and fps in so you can see the difference. The non-harmful beam of light pulsates slightly a few times before at one point firing at full power with a difference of 1 frame. I tried this using 60fps and had the same result.
Basically, the Knight cannot scale to it even if you were right.
Click to expand...
Okey you're right with the fps, he can't scale with dodging it. However, the same case is for Uumuu's electricity and I saw above an idea to scale him with that

Also, the argument of TK scaling from theLumiflies could apply to upscale from the bugs throwing light, since TK can move relative to them when is forming or has already formed, or even simply blitz them before they attack. The case of light is the same case as with electricity
 
ElAlekaPL said:
Okey you're right with the fps, he can't scale with dodging it. However, the same case is for Uumuu's electricity and I saw above an idea to scale him with that

Also, the argument of TK scaling from theLumiflies could apply to upscale from the bugs throwing light, since TK can move relative to them when is forming or has already formed, or even simply blitz them before they attack. The case of light is the same case as with electricity
Click to expand...
The thing is, the light is instant. Even when forming. While, compared to the electricity, we can actually see TK move in tandem with it.
 
ElAlekaPL said:
Okey you're right with the fps, he can't scale with dodging it. However, the same case is for Uumuu's electricity and I saw above an idea to scale him with that

Also, the argument of TK scaling from theLumiflies could apply to upscale from the bugs throwing light, since TK can move relative to them when is forming or has already formed, or even simply blitz them before they attack. The case of light is the same case as with electricity
Click to expand...
here's the deal. If you go into a frame by frame breakdown of the electricity then they actually do expand over the course of several frames. You can actually react to their expansion with your eyes. Knight's slashes, which are almost instant, would scale above and so would his other abilities.
 
So: Subsonic movement speed, Supersonic or Hypersonic combat and reactions, and... FTL slashes?

Edit: I always forget to put the reply srry
 
ElAlekaPL said:
So: Subsonic movement speed, Supersonic or Hypersonic combats and reactions, and... FTL slashes?
Click to expand...
No as, sure they’re almost instant (like Arceus0x said), they aren’t as instant as the lasers and thus don’t scale, so we can only compare them to the electricity.
 
Axorandom0 said:
Yeah that’s true. I kinda wish we could get the verse over the edge to 9-A but that isn’t possible (until Silksong hopefully proves me wrong, but I’ll probably be in my 70s by then)
Click to expand...
Yeah I doubt we could get too far.
There are ways to try that though.
First off there's the countless rocks and crystals whose destruction I can calculate.
Then there are the spells which can wreck several structures at once.
The biggest argument here for potential 9-A or sth of the sort is Crystal dash if we assume that it is indeed a dash and not continuous flight, which would make it scale to as many rocks as you destroy along your way.
 
Arceus0x said:
Yeah I doubt we could get too far.
There are ways to try that though.
First off there's the countless rocks and crystals whose destruction I can calculate.
Then there are the spells which can wreck several structures at once.
The biggest argument here for potential 9-A or sth of the sort is Crystal dash if we assume that it is indeed a dash and not continuous flight, which would make it scale to as many rocks as you destroy along your way.
Click to expand...
I doubt there are any areas long enough and rock-filled enough to get even close to a 9-A HK. So, I guess hope still hinges upon Silksong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Arceus0x
  • Locked
Hollow Knight Upgrades
Replies
30
Views
1K
Propellus
Propellus
LightSoul8
  • Locked
Hollow Knight size discussion
Replies
24
Views
2K
Armorchompy
Armorchompy
LightSoul8
  • Locked
A new verse-specific power for Hollow Knight?
Replies
29
Views
2K
LightSoul8
LightSoul8
Alexander
yeah hollow knight,hollow knight,yeah,ok,just read the thread please.
Replies
20
Views
2K
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
Tomfer
  • Locked
Moon Knight stamina rework
Replies
13
Views
956
Tomfer
Tomfer
Back
Top