Lesser_Goddess_Alexia
She/Her- 705
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Okay. I had thought before that it could get a Limited Immortality Type 7. But that's just possession.
Thanks.
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A Maddening Multiverse CRT (Doctor Strange MoM)
Thanks.
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Ya know what I'll just start it off
What do you guys think about this
This is sensible so going by this logic I'd say if we do make a new key for darkhold strange he should be likely have 6-C durability with his magic since he's able to block a blast from wanda in their confrontation albeit he's still much weaker, since the WoG statement only applies to wanda because of the body she took that means Strange doesn't get any weaker when in his possesion so it's fair grounds to use for him
What do you guys think about this
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Also would Wanda get some level of regen off of this since we see her body healing itself from the contortions she went through escaping the mirror dimension
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He blocked Wanda's Magic blast with the Soul Cloak, which was able to absorb it.
He dodged Wanda's second Magic blast with parkour.
He then used the Soul Cloak to try and possess Wanda, and restrain her. It might be possible that the souls were also absorbing her Magic.
Then Wong added his own sealing/restraining spell.
Wanda broke out then hit Strange with some sort of spell which was rapidly decaying Strange's body .
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Was it stated they absorb magic because it looked like blocked it and dodged thr next blast to me
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It's because the video you posted is badly clipped.
In the full version of the scene, we get a close up of the souls in the cloak swallowing Wanda's Magic.
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Ah okay nevermind on that then, thoughts on wanda though
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Additional thing for her Biological Manipulation I guess since he was able to speed up the decay of Strange's dead body.
Strange was also able to cancel the Damned Souls' Soul Manipulation and Possession (Kicked them out of his real body), and Soul Manipulated them instead, while Wanda was more or less still in control of her body and struggling to break free from the souls (Resistance to Possession).
Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,916
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Didn't América Chavez say that she lacks variants? isn't that Acausality type 2 instead of 4?
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Yeah that's either Regen or Healing, I'm leaning towards healing because she kinda displayed this in Infinity War when she was trying to close Vision's stab wound.
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Also @OneBleachHurricane bless your soul for making some contentions and points 
i was waiting on this
anywho
i was waiting on thisanywho
So you're saying these should be additional justficationa for abilities plus another resistance
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Post I made from the Multiverse of Madness discussion thread about Strange getting higher than 8-C with Magic
Honestly you can still make a case saying Thanos applaused his skills and his power and was forced to make use of really advanced abilities from the Stones to fight him so it's clear he considered he needed a great deal of power to fight him
Maybe we can have a "likely/possibly 6-C"?
Honestly you can still make a case saying Thanos applaused his skills and his power and was forced to make use of really advanced abilities from the Stones to fight him so it's clear he considered he needed a great deal of power to fight him
Maybe we can have a "likely/possibly 6-C"?
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On top of @Luigi3645 making this point:
There's also the fact that out of all the characters in MoM, Stephen was literally the ONLY one to give Wanda a hard time and she even regarded him as a genuine threat (not enough to actively try to kill him but she's definitely wary of him). The movie also states that Strange is also by far THE biggest threat to the Multiverse (even compared to Wanda!) and he did better against her when the likes of Captain Marvel and Black Bolt did nothing (though with BB he was killed before he could use his power)
Surely some of that could justify a "likely 6-C" tier rating
Valiant_Abyss
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If you could find a clip of that, it would be appreciated
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Yeah.Also @OneBleachHurricane bless your soul for making some contentions and points
anywho
So you're saying these should be additional justficationa for abilities plus another resistance
Wanda should get Resistance to Possession because, unlike Strange who became unable to control his body before his pep talk, she was still in control and struggling against the souls even though we were shown that they were in her body.
Strange gets Resistance to Possession as well since he was able to kick out the souls form his body after his pep talk.
He also gets Soul Manipulation for manipulating the souls and using them for his own purposes.
Valiant_Abyss
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The souls were pushed back before absorbing the blast. The souls still would’ve had to still take the force of the blast before absorbing it
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Have that as resistance to soul manip since I'd thought the damned souls were trying to drag their souls down
Yeah that'd just be an additional justification for his soul manip
Valiant_Abyss
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The souls of the damned were actively attacking strange because he attempted to dream walk in a deceased body. Wanda was dreamwalking in a living body.
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Soul Manipulation is for them dragging their souls down into an abyss.
Possession is for them entering their bodies, and trying to take control (They were somewhat ragdolling 616 Strange's body, and were able to use his body as a portal to get from Wundagore to Sinister Strange's universe).
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That's not where she would get her Resistance to Possession, she would get it for Strange using the souls on her, we see the same thing happen to her as we saw to Strange, the souls appearing in them.
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Ah okay I got ya and what about @Valiant_Abyss
He believes only the possession resistance applies to strange
Edit:nvm
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I don't mind "likely/possibly 6-C" from this
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Anyone else agree to this?
Valiant_Abyss
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I’d be willing to accept a likely. I’ll wait for staff though.
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Still need to be discussed tbh
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Willing to hear it out, just need staff input
Luigi3645
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I have reason to put in a "likely 6-C" rating for Strange
Out of all the characters in MoM, Stephen was literally the ONLY one to give Wanda a hard time and she even regarded him as a genuine threat (not enough to actively try to kill him but she's definitely wary of him). The movie also states that Strange is also by far THE biggest threat to the Multiverse (even compared to Wanda!) and he did better against her when the likes of Captain Marvel and Black Bolt did nothing (though with BB he was killed before he could use his power)
I think some of that could at least justify it a bit.
Out of all the characters in MoM, Stephen was literally the ONLY one to give Wanda a hard time and she even regarded him as a genuine threat (not enough to actively try to kill him but she's definitely wary of him). The movie also states that Strange is also by far THE biggest threat to the Multiverse (even compared to Wanda!) and he did better against her when the likes of Captain Marvel and Black Bolt did nothing (though with BB he was killed before he could use his power)
I think some of that could at least justify it a bit.
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The Illuminati were also kinda underestimating Wanda. That was their first encounter with a Scarlet Witch right, so they had no knowledge on what she could do, and they could have been thinking that the Scarlet Witch was just like their Wanda, just TK, Shields, and Magic Blasts.
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Oliver_de_jesus
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I'd say wait for staff on that because I genuinely don't know
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Luigi3645
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That is true but remember they also knew A LOT about Doctor Strange, their version was just as powerful (if not more so) than ours and he was able to kill Thanos with their help. And like I said, it isn't just their universe, they know he's a threat in EVERY universe.
Ikhvagracia
Username Only- 97
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hmm
hmm, followingDisclaimer: We can't get clips for every ability because the movie has not officially released but that hopefully shouldn't pose a problem as this has been discussed in number by those who have in its own discussion thread
Character blogs
To start off we of course have new blogs involving any relevant characters to the CRT and thanks @ArkhamDC06 and @Lacku for your hard work on them
Sinister Strange
User blog:ArkhamDC06/Sinister Strange (Marvel Cinematic Universe)#Powers and Stats
Strange's updated profile sandbox that features a complete rework of Strange's page
User blog:Lacku/Sandbox#Doctor Strange (Marvel Cinematic Universe) MoM Updates
America Chavez
User blog:Lacku/Sandbox#America Chavez (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
Scarlet Witch
User blogalesean027/Scarlet Witch(Updated Blog)#Post-Endgame
Calculations
We've got plenty of relevant calcs thanks to @AbaddonTheDisappointment all of which of course being accepted
User blog:AbaddonTheDisappointment/Multiverse of Madness Calcs
- Wanda lifts the Castle: 49953888.7744 kg (Class M)
- America punches Wanda and parts clouds: 1.6400975e+12 J (Multi-City Block level)
- Black Bolt destroys the ground (Low End): 168926864.95 J (Small Building level)
- Black Bolt destroys the ground (High End): 1456994210.19 J (Building level)
This calc @Lacku found(Also done by Abaddon) that'll be used to solidify Strange's (and other sorcerers) early AP tiers (more details later)
User blog:AbaddonTheDisappointment/Even More What If Feats#Strange tries to blow himself up
- 0.15484627333 tons of tnt (Small Building level+)
Ability Additions
Wanda:
Body Puppetry (Was seen reading the Darkhold in an astral form while boiling tea with her physical body)
Astral Projection and Possession (Possessed a different version of herself from another universe to battle the Illuminati)
Portal Creation (Could attack sorcerers through reflections and escape the mirror dimension)
Power Absorption (Could steal and absorb America's powers)
Summoning (Summoned various monster from across the multiverse to hunt America Chavez)
Existence Erasure (erased every darkhold from the infinite multiverse)
Deconstruction (erased a injured sorcerer)
Technology Manipulation (could prevent christine from releasing chavez by glitching the panel to the cell)
New justifications for Biological Manipulation (Was able to remove blackbolt's mouth from his body)
Resistance to Soul Manipulation (Withstood the souls of the damned attempting to take her soul)
Multiversal+ Range with dreamwalking and EE
Strange:
Astral Projection and Possession (Possessed a different version of herself from another universe to battle Wanda) (he already has Astral Projection so anyway)
Summoning (Summoned mystics snakes to attack Wanda, he summoned a gigantic beast to catch one a car saving a woman and her baby)
Creation (formed ******** hands to tear the pole off and kill Gargantos)
New justifications for his power absorption, capable of absorbing America Chavez ability to travel through universes, as seen by Defender Strange doing it.
An actual justification for Strange's Fire manipulation (Shot a blast of green flames at Gargantos)
Invisibility Negation (Performed a spell which made Gargantos visible)
Deconstruction and Matter Manipulation (Deconstructed and changed the form of a bus whilst lifting it into the air)
Sound Manipulation (Was able to create tangible musical notes made of Eldritch Magic's energy to attack his alternate self during their duel),
Body Control (Can make a third eye appear on his forehead)
Illusion Creation (Coerced Wanda into the Mirror Dimension with an illusion of himself)
Cloth Manipulation (Can change his clothes into anything and can even make the cloak into a pretty nifty scarf.)
Martial Arts (Was able to completely outskill and defeat Mordo while bound in handcuffs)
Attack Reflection (Was able to reflect an attack from Wanda using the Mirror Dimension)
Resistance to Soul Manipulation (Was able to fight overturn control of the souls of the damned)
New range justification for Multiverese+ with dreamwalking
Wong: honestly should've had these first two since they're almost standard for sorcerers
Weapon Creation
Weapon Mastery
ALL SORCERORS
Receive Resistances to Mind Manipulation on their first or only keys as even fodder sorcerers are trained in how to resist mind manip
Some WoG
We've got this article courtesy of @M3X
The article stated this:
We decided that the limitation is that she's not in her body," Olsen revealed. "She's in a less-oiled version of her body. So it's not capable of doing as much as our universe's Wanda could do, because it's more about using the body like a not-so-tuned-up car. I wanted it to be easier, but it was amazing to get to have those moments."
meaning this and in M3X's own words:
"The alternate universe Wanda can't use Scarlet Witch's full power, it's simple as that. Since she can't use Scarlet Witch's full power because of the body, she is weaker. Same applies for Strange. It's a dead and rotten body.
The spell Strange and Wanda used are the same, they used the Darkhold to use the possession. If Wanda is weaker using a different body, Strange should also be weaker when possessing a (dead) body.
New Scaling
Pre-Multiverse of Madness Scaling
Strange performed a 9-A+ feat after he became Sorcerer Supreme, which he has his own key for it with it being more sensible to scale sorcerers to baseline 9-A as the Ancient One is shown destroying Chitauri Cruisers pretty easily in Endgame. The only thing wrong with that is I don’t remember how much the Ancient One is meant to upscale normal sorcerers and how comparable she is to Doctor Strange. She herself said that Strange is meant to be the best of them in Endgame so that leads me to believe that she’d be weaker than him after his first movie. I’m not 100% on this but I’m thinking maybe The Ancient One and Post-Training Doctor Strange should scale to at least 9-A and the average sorcerer if we make a civilization profile for them would be at most 9-A. I'd like to hear some thoughts on this since personally I think the 9-A scaling is surprisingly consistent, at least for sorcerers who don't scale to Strange after his first movie.
With that in mind Sorcerers like the Ancient One and Wong would have their AP sections like this:
Street level physically, higher with Conjured Weaponry. Small Building level with Magic, Island level with Sling Rings (Comparable to Wong who cut off Cull Obsidian's hand)
While Doctor Strange's Infinity War and Endgame key looking like this:
Wall level physically (A variant of this Strange traded blows with his evil counterpart. Should be comparable to his durability), higher with Conjured Weaponry. At least Small Building level+, possibly far higher with Magic (Fought Thanos when he owned four Infinity Stones and held his own against him better than anyone else. Attempted to trap Thanos within a Mirror Dimension wall, forcing him to use the Power Stone to break free, and later restrained him with many Magic Energy Whips, forcing him to use a combination of the Power Stone and the Soul Stone to break free. Thanos later went as far as to praise Strange for his power and skill), Island level with Sling Rings, able to ignore durability in some ways.
While the Small Building level+ feat is performed by a variant of strange in episode 4 of What If, we do know that the Strange who performed this feat went through the exact same event's as our strange up to this point with nothing differing aside from the fact that he lost Christine in his accident. This is a rare case of backscaling being applicable since we know for a fact that absolutely nothing differs aside from what they lost going from his hands to the life of Christine.
Multiverse of Madness Scaling
Now getting to the meat of things as we've finally arrived at the Scaling for characters in Multiverse of Madness
Strange
Strange's AP now scales to his durability since he could fight and defeat Mordo who was able to harm Strange making his physical AP outright 8-C. His AP section will now look like this:
Building level physically (Traded blows with 838 Mordo, who was capable of harming him with his physical strikes), Higher with Conjured Weaponry. At least Building level (Strange's magic should be superior to his physical strength), possibly far higher with Magic, Island level with Sling Rings, able to ignore durability in some ways
Wong
Wong's Physical AP and Durability both scale to 8-C as he's displayed as being comparable to Strange being able to not only take hits from Gargantos who knocked Strange unconscious briefly but also being able to harm him with his physical attacks and weapons. His AP section will now look like this in his new key.
Building level physically (Comparable to Strange and was able to harm Gargantos with his strikes), Higher with Conjured Weaponry. At least Building level (Wong's magic should be superior to his physical strength), Island level with Sling Rings, able to ignore durability in some ways
America Chavez
America Chavez performs 8-A strikes with her punches after awakening to her full potential with her powers with her AP section being like this:
Athlete level normally, Multi-City Block level with her powers (Caused clouds to part with her punches. Broke a stone slab into the shape of a star)
The Scarlet Witch
Needless to say Wanda has been boosted massively by this film in many ways so much so that we'll in fact start with her durability which now is listed as this:
Multi-City Block level physically (Could tank several blows from America Chavez with her realized powers). At least Island level with Energy Shields
This certainly isn't up for debate since Wanda directly while not using her powers is able to tank the full brunt of Chavez's punches only being staggered and still is able to restrain chavez while being attacked. Her AP section will now also be updated to look like this:
Building level physically (Should be comparable if not superior to Strange in strength). At least Island level with Magic (Has grown exponentially in power after becoming the Scarlet Witch and studying the darkhold being much more powerful than before, stated to be stronger than the Sorcerer Supreme, making her stronger than any sorcerer including Strange who could absorb and better control Chavez's powers. Could easily destroy the dragons that Strange conjured, and knock out Wong, defeated the Illuminati in a less powerful body while being unable to use her full power with WoG having this to say)
Extra Stuff
These imo should both be discussed I think after everything else has been sorted and taken care of here.
America Chavez durability is currently listed as just athlete level along with her having only one key leaving it open for discussion .
Doctor Strange getting a darkhold key that scales to 6-C is also currently up for discussion
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Hence they underestimated the Scarlet Witch because they had no knowledge on her.
They were more focused on 616 Strange because they had all the information they needed to know his danger due to their Strange's actions.
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Hope so, we need as many people as we can get
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Acausality
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Luigi3645
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Which implies his power level is far vaster than Captain Marvel and Black Bolt (the latter of whom could have killed Scarlet Witch had she not, you know, made his mouth disappear). Our CM is 6-C (pretty sure) so the scaling should be similar.
They definitely made a HUGE mistake of underestimating Scarlet Witch, but that doesn't counter anything about Strange here. All it says is that they didn't know how powerful she really was (as I said the Illuminati killed their version of Thanos, so they're not weak by any means) and sadly they paid the price for it.
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