- 167,679
- 76,256
@Starter_Pack @GyroNutz @SamanPatou @CloverDragon03 @SomebodyData @Colonel_Krukov @Executor_N0
What do you think about this?
What do you think about this?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
A little Upgrade(Or A Huge One) For Pokémon God Tiers
- Status
- 15,905
- 8,080
I updated my posts. I could see the Giritana's abilities being fine, assuming antimatter is actually nonexistent; it probably needs way more inputs since I believe Nonexistence and Acausality type 4 have been rejected many times. However, Arceus's nonexistence type seems iffy. I am neutral on the acausality.
I could see Arceus having the same abilities as Giratina.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
- Thread starter
- #43
I looked into those....
Why Nonexistence was rejected was because of how the anime depicted the place, which is entirely different from the games shown, which I've clarified. And I think that's nep nature type 1 is for Giratina, not Arceus
Aca 4....i don't remember when that was rejected. But I've clarified the DW runs on different rules than Pokéverse. Nothing makes sense there unless Giratina wills it. Logic don't apply, physics, nada. Time and space cant exist there cos he's a paradox of those
Acausality type 5 tho, hmmph, i take it as Arceus the game master creating two worlds, one logical and follows causality, another acausal and doesn't really obey it, and the game master existing outside of the game entirely. Unless Arceus creating the law of cause and effect is subject to it somehow, which wouldn't work cos he transcends the reality and all its systems and exists outside of it.
As for nep type 2 it will be for existing beyond the Binary presented by Pokeworld and Distortion World. Existence(1), Nonexistence(0)
Also for the fact that the 3 facets of reality, physical, metaphysical and Nonexistence are entirely seperate aspects of his being, so he's none of them.
Why Nonexistence was rejected was because of how the anime depicted the place, which is entirely different from the games shown, which I've clarified. And I think that's nep nature type 1 is for Giratina, not Arceus
Aca 4....i don't remember when that was rejected. But I've clarified the DW runs on different rules than Pokéverse. Nothing makes sense there unless Giratina wills it. Logic don't apply, physics, nada. Time and space cant exist there cos he's a paradox of those
Acausality type 5 tho, hmmph, i take it as Arceus the game master creating two worlds, one logical and follows causality, another acausal and doesn't really obey it, and the game master existing outside of the game entirely. Unless Arceus creating the law of cause and effect is subject to it somehow, which wouldn't work cos he transcends the reality and all its systems and exists outside of it.
As for nep type 2 it will be for existing beyond the Binary presented by Pokeworld and Distortion World. Existence(1), Nonexistence(0)
Also for the fact that the 3 facets of reality, physical, metaphysical and Nonexistence are entirely seperate aspects of his being, so he's none of them.
- 724
- 181
acca type 5 I don't know what to say because I've never seen the concept of chance appear in pokémon, the rest I agree.
Last edited:
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,379
- 4,319
Can you translate it to English? Would make it easier to understand
- 5,224
- 2,624
"Dunno what to say about acausality type 5 since i never saw the concept of acausal in pokemon, i agree with the rest"
Adapted to english
Adapted to english
- 7,142
- 4,657
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,379
- 4,319
I am not sure about Acausality Type 4, since we do see mostly that the player can interact normally in the distortion world (except for some weird things), but is also able to battle Cyrus there
So even if it's type 4, it's clear that they can at least interact with the distortion world in some way
In the anime, Shaymin, as well as Ash, Dawn, Brock and Zero, are all able to traverse Giratina's realm and interact normally there in M11
So even if it's type 4, it's clear that they can at least interact with the distortion world in some way
In the anime, Shaymin, as well as Ash, Dawn, Brock and Zero, are all able to traverse Giratina's realm and interact normally there in M11
- 724
- 181
this is prejudice more with Mexico, so it has nothing to do with me but there must be some here so I think it's better to change it.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
- Thread starter
- #52
It was a puzzle to test the player and prove yourself. It's the way it is until the ruler decides what should and shouldnt be. He's the ruler, just as Dialga rules over his realm, and Palkia does. You didn't see Ash get erased from existence while Dialga took him through his time realm did you? But yeah, in his realm time moves at different speeds everywhere and he'd be dead by now
Under the rules of Giratina as mentioned in PLA. Even in the manga, the two people who were trapped inside could not escape until Giratina kinda took his eyes off them for a while. Long story short, rules of DW≠ rules of Pokéworld
We don't use the anime depiction as that's a very different depiction of the place. I think I clarified that at the beginning. And even as bad as it is, even time was literally looping around him in the domain until he decided to leave, which is outside his domain.
Hes a walking paradox of time and space, at least, it's avatar in its domain and its true form.
- 1,281
- 150
Sorry
- 724
- 181
I think it will take time for some other update to be made
Last edited:
- 5,224
- 2,624
That sounded more like a meme reference than a racist comment, but i have no context nor do i wanna start a discussion on it.
I agree the anime despiction shouldn't be taken over primary source, but can someone remind me how was it portrayed exactly?
I agree the anime despiction shouldn't be taken over primary source, but can someone remind me how was it portrayed exactly?
- 17,216
- 12,655
the anime world was a "reverse" world with countless buildings and land which were taken from our world cause they disrupted reality or sum shiz like that. Completely different from the game, manga and generations anime.
- 11,250
- 19,726
It's actually a meme but depending on how it is used it can be aggressive/racist or a friendly game.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
- Thread starter
- #62
Hard to properly explain. But it's functionally different
1. For instance it's filled with reflections, which is not the case for the Distortion world
2. It doesn't look like the Distortion world in the least
3. Its functionally different. It takes pollutions in the form of black clouds to correct imbalances, not the case for the DW. No bubbles in the DW
4. I don't know what was up with the DW and shaymin, but Gira does not need seed flare to move between both worlds.
5. It was different enough for the anime to relabel it Reverse World, and for good reason. It doesn't look like, or behave as DW. Also, the anime released before the games, so its likely a case of keeping spoilers in check, and simply got overwritten by Platinum
- 167,679
- 76,256
@Starter_Pack @GyroNutz @SamanPatou @CloverDragon03 @SomebodyData @Colonel_Krukov @Executor_N0
We would still appreciate some help here.
We would still appreciate some help here.
Colonel_Krukov
🖖 Live long and prosper
He/HimVS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Image Helper
- 8,626
- 10,802
My Pokemon knowledge is extremely minimal, I don't think I can help out here.
- 5,224
- 2,624
bruh, i guess they wanted to expand it beyond puzzles and stuff but, eeeh, feels too much of a change, though i think it helps the theme of balance with the reflections.
isn't there another pokemon anime where cyrus goes there and it looks just like the games, i think you showed the scan of him saying it is nothingness and stuff
- 110
- 38
It's Pokémon Generations, the series on YouTube.
- 15,905
- 8,080
I believe it's from the evidence was too low to show that Distortion world or Giritina would be nonexistent. I believe this thread got the best evidence of the contrary from what I know.w
It used to have Acausality Type 4 in later 2018 but it was removed as it was considered as antifeats by most of evaluating staffs familiar with pokemon that Dialga's powers like Dialga's temporal loop could affect it, in short.
These proposals work.
- 5,224
- 2,624
We usually treat stuff like that as the character's power bypassing their resistance/acausality, only becomes a antifeat when they are affected by natural stuff, like if time looped by itself.
Makes sense since, despite inferior, dialga can usually still fight giratina alongside palkia
Makes sense since, despite inferior, dialga can usually still fight giratina alongside palkia
- 17,216
- 12,655
Though tbf that never really affected Arceus in any way and he was very much aware of the fact that Ash and co went to the past to help him
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
- Thread starter
- #71
Yes. It was recently. Unfortunately the person who made that thread did not present the evidence I did, nor did he elaborate or add context. Mainly 2 things against it: Rocks in DW, and anime depiction. Anime depiction is flat out wrong. As for rocks, they're platforms designed by Giratina to test the player. Which I've labeled under void manipulation and creation as it materializes and dematerializes depending on how close you are to it.
They've been using the anime depiction against it for years. It's why I made the clarification first thing before starting the crt. It significantly alters the DW
Even so
1. That's his avatar
2. Time was merely looping around its avatar inside the Reverse World till it decided to reach outside, which is beyond his domain and authority
3. So Aca 4 for his True Form still stands. As for his avatar............
Great
- 17,216
- 12,655
don't rush it mate, it takes some time. I think someone should call Gyro here. Also, some important revisions take quite a while to get noticed and so far people aren't against the majority of the changes, including staff. Any rebuttal was countered so far and every problem addressed
- 17,216
- 12,655
guess we'll have to stall then, the discussion is still ongoing
- 12,562
- 2,517
Will say that I never had a particular problem with Giratina having non-existence, though I'd have to finish reading the manga to complete my thoughts on that. I do agree that the creation trio are strongly tied to dualities - the duality of physical time-space and emotional spirit, the duality of space and time and the duality of matter (Dialga + Palkia) and "antimatter" (Giratina), with Cyrus' statements being clear support. I don't think the stuff provided for Arceus is indicative of acuasality type 5 - there's nothing explicitly linking Arceus' transcendence with cause and effect laws.
Finally a (open-ended) question: How do we treat Arceus having every Pokemon ability if they're paradoxical in nature/disadvantageous? For instance, Flare Boost and Water Veil, or Vital Spirit and Truant/Comatose. Contrary sparked my interest because there's numerous abilities and moves that would boost Arceus' stats that are now worse than useless if we consider this an active ability - coupled with Speed Boost and passive auras, Arceus would be passively making itself slower.
Finally a (open-ended) question: How do we treat Arceus having every Pokemon ability if they're paradoxical in nature/disadvantageous? For instance, Flare Boost and Water Veil, or Vital Spirit and Truant/Comatose. Contrary sparked my interest because there's numerous abilities and moves that would boost Arceus' stats that are now worse than useless if we consider this an active ability - coupled with Speed Boost and passive auras, Arceus would be passively making itself slower.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
- Thread starter
- #77
You're right.
You're right. His transcendence isn't limited to only laws of cause and effect. But any concept, laws, systems, Order that came after him
Well when I joined the wiki and looked at his previous matches, they just choose what's best to win a fight.
- 6,436
- 1,664
I believe it was accepted on a post this week or last that time and space aren't dualities in the same way cause and effect aren't.
Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,365
- Thread starter
- #80
Well, I've got some exam to take care of so I won't be here for a day or 2. I'll leave this here to cover for Aca 5, since it seems to be the only debatable thing so far.
The only thing that existed before anything was primordial void. Formless nothing devoid of order, law, concept or any kind of system
And so he appeared and created all there is to be created.
"he doesn't transcend the law of cause and effect".... And honestly, I don't see why that isn't the case
That's a law, which are the same laws he changed for the DW, because you know, the rules change over there. Which is also why even laws of physics does not apply......... logic in general
Even fodder Arceus can Overturn those laws, because y'know he is an Avatar of the Creator. A stand in
I'm saying this because I've seen Aca 5 on account of a character predating and transcending the laws of their world. Which is valid because laws of cause and effect have been referenced to as laws in the verse.
Arceus seems to be one of the best depictions of that.
The game master analogy is the best description of this
The only thing that existed before anything was primordial void. Formless nothing devoid of order, law, concept or any kind of system
And so he appeared and created all there is to be created.
"he doesn't transcend the law of cause and effect".... And honestly, I don't see why that isn't the case
That's a law, which are the same laws he changed for the DW, because you know, the rules change over there. Which is also why even laws of physics does not apply......... logic in general
Even fodder Arceus can Overturn those laws, because y'know he is an Avatar of the Creator. A stand in
I'm saying this because I've seen Aca 5 on account of a character predating and transcending the laws of their world. Which is valid because laws of cause and effect have been referenced to as laws in the verse.
Arceus seems to be one of the best depictions of that.
The game master analogy is the best description of this
- Status
Similar threads
