A ice elementalist fights a ice spirit with two personalities

[Huesito88]

Speed is equalized

Theme https://youtu.be/ARXyWcAWNMY

Battle takes place in Antarctica

Yoshino: 6

Rinslet:

 

[The_Causality]

Interesting

I will reply later

 

[The_Causality]

Well, i think it's time to start the debate

AP
Well, I guess both are in their full power form? okay, if i really understand rinslet's profile: She scale to Claire Rouge's first key which is above baseline via fought other MCB who can easily defeat MCB, Yoshino have the massive advantage in term of AP, she easily one shot a dozen of Droids which are much higher above baseline in a sealed form so i can arg that Yoshino can one shot rinslet

Due to this all physical attacks of Rinslet are nullified by the astral dress so she need to use durability negation hax to put her down.

From both side, Ice based attacks are pretty useless, both resist to Ice manipulation.

Hax
Well, all their hax aren't useful at all here, Rinslet hax are nullified by the astral dress and yoshino's hax is resited to Rinslet (i guess rinslet resit to absolute zero, if she can't resist to absolute zero, yoshino freeze) but i note that yoshino has the the advantage of the field and can spam danmaku of ice to impale rinslet (the rain she generate can be transformed into icicle) she seem to have a better ice manipulation (not the power but the manipulation)

Yoshino's puppet is really problematic to Rinslet since he can tank everything she has, flight and attack, yoshino have also a good mobility, rinslet will have problem to touch Yoshino because of her mobility and her flight, she can continue to attcks with a rain of icicle and avoid rinslet arrow and even if she is touched, she nullifie the physical blow.

Oh i forgot Rinslet versatility but sadly, it's not really usefull since she can tank almost every attack she has even without astral dress, you add Yoshino's puppet and her mobility and you have again the advantage of yoshino

I again forgot the Ice dome of Yoshino if ever she was in difficult, she suraround her to a giant blizzard which can literraly one shot Multi-City block above baseline

Result
Yoshino win mid diff via her massive AP advantage, her manipulation of ice and her astral dress, she can literally one shot her or fight her wear (even if it doesn't necessary)

 

[Huesito88]

Vote counted

 

[Moritzva]

Yoshino FRA

 

[Schnee_One]

Yoshino FRA

 

[Huesito88]

Something Causality forgot to mention is that Fenrir can absorb ice and can get stronger.

 

[The_Causality]

Something Causality forgot to mention is that Fenrir can absorb ice and can get stronger.

Oh yeah i forgot this, yes this is useful, but the problem is the rain of the icicle of Yoshino is too much for fenrir's ice he can absorb, these attack are much stronger than his durability, he will be impaled and even if by chance, he can absorb this ice, Firstly this is not enough to at least become comparable to Yoshino, secondly, this doesn't stop zadkiel's danmaku to empale Rinslet or just one shot her with a jet of water, thirdly, he can't do shit against zadkiel and even yoshino

So yeah, this is useful but he get crushed before he become strong enough to not being one shot'd

 

[Huesito88]

Well the water kinda gets frozen, and both would start at hundreds of meters and Rin is a range fighter and Antarctica has ice that can be absorbed as soon as the fight starts and has Field of Cold to increase her power, also this

"Higher with Field of Cold or longer casting time (A wave of Freezing Arrows scales to Valaraukar's heat beam, which can obliterate an entire ruined town)"

 

[The_Causality]

She doesn't passively froze waters, she need to throw an arrow or ask fenrir to do this but even in this case the water can just crush fenrir before he freeze the stuff

Don't think she absorb ice immediatly, one of her weaknest is she underestimate opponent most of time and even she fenrir absorb ice, he become stronger but rinslet nah, she still can be one shot'd plus, Ranged attacks against yoshino, which passively nullifie weaker attacks than her and have a better dura is kinda useless.

also, why she isn't Small Town level with with Field of Cold if she scale to Valaraukar's heat beam ..?

 

[Huesito88]

"A wave of Freezing Arrows scales to Valaraukar's heat beam,"

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Is there a calc for Yoshino's AP? How much above baseline 8-A is she?

I don't know how much above baseline Rinslet is, but the feats she scales to are from Volume 1. Over the series, she got stronger. Granted, not massively stronger, so she would still be only a bit above baseline (maybe x2 or x2.5).

Rinslet, while with lower AP and with resisted attacks, also resists Yoshino's attacks, is smarter, has access to healing, and partially negates durability with arrows. Yoshino having flight won't really matter to an archer. Also, since we are using full-power Rinslet, she would have already fought Velsaria Eva Fahrengart, who was a very large opponent with big AP advantage and flight... just like unsealed Yoshino. So Rinslet has experience fighting someone like that.

 

[Huesito88]

Sealed Yoshino scales to 384.7992351816443

 

[The_Causality]

Currently, Sealed Yoshino can be scale>> 384 or Easly crush a dozen of Bandersnatches, Kurumi's clones and wizard who are at least 300

Velsa's flying isn't good at all..really*and against her they was at least 4 so not the good exemle

 

[GoldenScorpions]

When Rinslet fought Velsaria with the other girls, it was her first time fighting such an opponent; she didn't have experience like that before. Yes, they were 4 fighting Velsaria to compensate for the power gap, but it's not any less an important experience for Rinslet. Later, in Volume 13, Rinslet fights off ice dragons, that could fly too. If anything, being a flier makes it easier for Rinslet to aim and shoot.

If sealed-Yoshino is 384 tons, and unsealed-Yoshino is much stronger, let's assume for the sake of the argument that she's right on the upper echelon if 8-A: 1 kiloton. As we are taking Rinslet as her best, let's use what her profile is based of off: Volume 13 (I still have to read the rest). Between volumes 1 and 13, Rinslet has gotten stronger (no shit), but since we don't have a number, let's assume she's at x2-x2.5 stronger than baseline 8-A, which is what is assumed for Volume 1, for safety purposes. Yoshino would be about x5 stronger, and it will certainly hurt Rinslet.

With Field of Cold and/or longer casting time/wave of arrows, she can decrease the gap a bit. Yoshino would still win in AP, but Rinslet's attack speed is much better's than the other equally-strong characters (despite equalization in speed, if attack speed scales higher, the scaling remains). Yoshino's power null works against physical attacks, while Rinslet's attacks are magical, including her arrows, so they won't be blocked. And like I said before, she has access to healing and is smarter.

I know Yoshino is a good fighter, especially when unsealed, (I've seen the anime) and I could see her beating Rinslet, but I'm bringing up these things to point out Rinslet isn't helpless or without options here. I'm not sure myself if her advantages will be enough to beat Yoshino, but at the very least, she has Yoshino beat in intelligence, range, regen/healing, and power control (it's stated Yoshino can't fully control her Angel form)

 

[Huesito88]

"sealed-Yoshino is 384 tons, and unsealed-Yoshino is much stronger, let's assume for the sake of the argument that she's right on the upper echelon if 8-A: 1 kiloton"

More like a mid end 8-A rather than extremely high end 8-A

 

[The_Causality]

@Golden I answer later but all AST attack are based on Magic to Eradicate spirits, and even if this work only for physical, it still nullifie due to her attack doesn't bypass durability

 

[Huesito88]

It nullifies most of the attack not all, it's still a advantage though.

 

[The_Causality]

Yes

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I'm not sure I understand. Her profile says her Astral Dress power nulls physical damage, not magic. How does she nullify Rinslet's magic arrows?

 

[The_Causality]

Because the physical blow she null are magic based attack, Magic or not, physical blow are still physical, and it can be nullified by the astral dress (in an extend)

 

[GoldenScorpions]

But Rinslet's arrows aren't physical. They are entirely made of magic. There's no physical blow to be had here. Her arrows aren't magic-empowered regular arrows, but summoned magical arrows

 

[The_Causality]

Yes, it's the same with AST's realizer, also, even if she summon magical arrow or that they are made of pure magic to attack the opponent, the damage are still physical, magic or not, magic-empowered or not, Magic attacks are physical in most of case, you need to make attack which bypass durability to bypass this.

And even if the arrow can miraculously touch yoshino, her dura is too strong to have injures

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I fail to see how arrows made of energy count as "physical weapons". They're no different from magic missiles.

Does that mean Astral Dresses also block magic/energy attacks?

 

[Huesito88]

ÔÇóblocks most of a attack

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[Huesito88]

Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I still don't understand how a projectile of energy counts as a physical attack

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I still don't understand how a projectile of energy counts as a physical attack

Its NLF

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Care to explain? I don't get it

Yoshino's profile says "Her Astral Dress can nullify physical damage". Rinslet's arrows are magical, made of energy. Physical =/= magical, isn't it? If it's somehow not the case, I'd like to know why.

 

[The_Causality]

Because magical damage are still physical in most of case (if your attack doesn't bypass durability) and the profile say this because of it, if not we can easily change it to magical, both are interchangeable, it's not because your attack are made of magic that it's isn't physical. Magical, Mechanic, energetic, Brut force, basically all form of power are physical (in an extend of course) (and even if it's not the case, Spirits astral dress nullifie magical attack)

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

N~~L~~F~~!!!

 

[The_Causality]

N~~L~~F~~!!!

Yes

 

[Litentric_Teon]

It's similar to Jee-Han's arrows. Even though they're composed of magic, they don't do "magical" damage to what they hit. They do physical damage. Which the dress seems to null.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

So it counts as physical as long as you can grab it?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, in Han's case it still bypasses resistence to physical damage as shown with black flame incarnation (or whatever it's canon name is) and his own passive reducing physical damage.


But most often magic is physical, yeah.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So it counts as physical as long as you can grab it?

More like as long as it has an impact, which more often then not means that it has kinetic energy behind it.

 

[The_Causality]

everywhere we talked of Han, Ricsi is like attracted OvO

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Of course I am...

Mostly because I see litentric commented, so I check it out.