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A Hat in Time Fixes & Revisions Part 1

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Dargoo_Faust said:
That's all well and good - this should just be, you know, explained on the profiles themselves under Durability and Striking Strength, with appropriate citations, instead of just having the ratings with nothing explained.
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yes i know, i was just pointing it out.
GiverOfThePeace said:
Idk why one-shotting fodder she could one-shot beforehand really proves an amp. Also as we've been discussing on this thread it's very much not likely that a single time piece causes a 4-A feat.
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i'd assume you mean from the opening where she kills two of them, that actual fight isn't shown and the ending doesn't imply a oneshot. also if she could oneshot them, they wouldn't be able to overpower her.
i think it'd still be fine for the time pieces to be 4-A even if it requires multiple to do the feat.
 
TheRexor28 said:
yes i know, i was just pointing it out.

i'd assume you mean from the opening where she kills two of them, that actual fight isn't shown and the ending doesn't imply a oneshot. also if she could oneshot them, they wouldn't be able to overpower her.
i think it'd still be fine for the time pieces to be 4-A even if it requires multiple to do the feat.
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They overpower her via there being too many of them (which they can still technically do as using the mafia ball is one of the ways you need to attack her during the fight), she doesn't one-shot several of them in that final scene, only one of the mafia members even gets affected, the rest are still fine and dandy.

Ok, but what's the reason for that? I'm fine with the time pieces amping her, for the most part, but it's weird how the 4-A feat in question needs hundreds of time pieces.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
They overpower her via there being too many of them (which they can still technically do as using the mafia ball is one of the ways you need to attack her during the fight), she doesn't one-shot several of them in that final scene, only one of the mafia members even gets affected, the rest are still fine and dandy.

Ok, but what's the reason for that? I'm fine with the time pieces amping her, for the most part, but it's weird how the 4-A feat in question needs hundreds of time pieces.
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all the mafia do there is sit around and wait to get kicked by hat kid, that doesn't count as the mafia overpowering her. plus only 5 of them were needed to capture her in barrel battle, that shoud've been no trouble for her if she could've oneshot them. the cutscene only shows one of them dying but you can hear many fodders (including mafia) dying too before the cutscene while she spins the laser. also you still have yet to prove that she can oneshot them in base.

same reason that red (dick figures) is scaled to giving half the energy to a highfive that destroyed 19 city blocks. also hundreds is quite a stretch, there are maybe 20-30 seen.
 
TheRexor28 said:
all the mafia do there is sit around and wait to get kicked by hat kid, that doesn't count as the mafia overpowering her. plus only 5 of them were needed to capture her in barrel battle, that shoud've been no trouble for her if she could've oneshot them. the cutscene only shows one of them dying but you can hear many fodders (including mafia) dying too before the cutscene while she spins the laser. also you still have yet to prove that she can oneshot them in base.

same reason that red (dick figures) is scaled to giving half the energy to a highfive that destroyed 19 city blocks. also hundreds is quite a stretch, there are maybe 20-30 seen.
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They used the power of the mafia ball to reach her, and ok? That's still overpowering her via numbers. Which is contradicted by the cutscene since the cutscene directly shows who actually dies to the blast. Her first showing shows her easily defeat a couple, basic deduction here.

Uh no, that's a huge false equivalence, Red contributed half of the energy to something even if we considered your 20-30 margin correct, that'd be 3%-5% at best, hundreds is not a stretch at all, actually look at the scene and see how many were falling.
 
No to Longevity and Telekinesis, the former because the mafia could well just refer to the group, the latter because an icon floating above someone's head doesn't give them telekinesis. Mustache Girl having longevity is fine though.

Regarding 4-A stuff: this seems... odd, no? She should be "___, Multi-Solar System level" (or whatever) "via Time Pieces". Mafia Goons should be higher than 10-B though, if they have 9-B feats then that works fine (I saw a smidge of the gameplay, never played, didn't finish watching). If sufficient evidence is provided for 4-A scaling then I guess scratch this until the whole Creation Feats CRT comes around.

Regarding intelligence, all of that could be achieved with a Genius intelligence. Generally against Extraordinary Genius but I don't feel too strongly in this department.

Regarding speed, some of these are decent feats as has been said already previously. Dunno what more to say other than that they should be calculated to get exact values and then applied.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
No to Longevity and Telekinesis, the former because the mafia could well just refer to the group, the latter because an icon floating above someone's head doesn't give them telekinesis. Mustache Girl having longevity is fine though.

Regarding 4-A stuff: this seems... odd, no? She should be "___, Multi-Solar System level" (or whatever) "via Time Pieces". Mafia Goons should be higher than 10-B though, if they have 9-B feats then that works fine (I saw a smidge of the gameplay, never played, didn't finish watching). If sufficient evidence is provided for 4-A scaling then I guess scratch this until the whole Creation Feats CRT comes around.

Regarding intelligence, all of that could be achieved with a Genius intelligence. Generally against Extraordinary Genius but I don't feel too strongly in this department.

Regarding speed, some of these are decent feats as has been said already previously. Dunno what more to say other than that they should be calculated to get exact values and then applied.
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Mafia members such as the mafia leader is still the same age and look before he even got on the island.

4-A via time pieces personally sounds better.
 
I mean. Mafia leader is a title, no? Could he not literally just be a different guy, or is it confirmed he's the same man?
 
If it's proven to be the same guy then I suppose it's fine. Just seemed weird.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
They used the power of the mafia ball to reach her, and ok? That's still overpowering her via numbers. Which is contradicted by the cutscene since the cutscene directly shows who actually dies to the blast. Her first showing shows her easily defeat a couple, basic deduction here.

Uh no, that's a huge false equivalence, Red contributed half of the energy to something even if we considered your 20-30 margin correct, that'd be 3%-5% at best, hundreds is not a stretch at all, actually look at the scene and see how many were falling.
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yeah, but that was a 4-A kick from hat kid. the mafia goons just bounce off of mustache girl, none of them have to put in any effort to hurt her because hat kid made them move fast enough to hurt her. by that logic, one mafia goon, 2 crows, conductor+grooves, and 2 cat people created all of the heart pons for the final phase because they're the only ones shown dying. it's clear that many others died even though only one was shown in the cutscene. that cutscene only shows her finishing them, not her oneshotting them. that doesn't imply oneshotting at all plus only 5 were able to overpower her.

i wasn't saying that each time piece should be scaled to 1/2 the potency of the feat, i was saying that they'd use effectively the same reasoning. just like red contributed 1/2 the energy, 1 time piece would contribute 1/??? the potency. also just about any feasible number of time pieces used would still be within 4-A tiers, a dimension w/ a starry sky feat is 1.688e63 joules, even 1000 time pieces would still be 1e60 joules per.
 
IIRC, there are mentions that the starry sky dimension gets literally shattered by Hat Kid when she defeats Mustache Girl; which was kind of the main thing Everlasting said on discord regarding Tier 4 sized pocket reality feats about them being solid. Pocket reality creation feats are solid AP feats if 2 out of 3 things are met.
  • Mentions of a world or dimension being created or the character referring to it as their world.
  • Violent shakings of said dimension mid battle, or significant levels of reality warping.
  • The dimension shatters or collapses upon the boss's death and/or defeat.
 
Thanks to all staff members who are helping out here.

Just a note that a Genius rating only means real world human genius level. What was achieved here seems to be well beyond that scale.
 
I get notifications but I also have college to do. Not exactly on this site a ton rn.

If the contention is pocket dimension stuff, I have gripes with the general concept of that. However, based off the OP, I'm not seeing why ringing that bell would scale to her AP?
 
Thank you for helping out.
 
TheRexor28 said:
yeah, but that was a 4-A kick from hat kid. the mafia goons just bounce off of mustache girl, none of them have to put in any effort to hurt her because hat kid made them move fast enough to hurt her. by that logic, one mafia goon, 2 crows, conductor+grooves, and 2 cat people created all of the heart pons for the final phase because they're the only ones shown dying. it's clear that many others died even though only one was shown in the cutscene. that cutscene only shows her finishing them, not her oneshotting them. that doesn't imply oneshotting at all plus only 5 were able to overpower her.

i wasn't saying that each time piece should be scaled to 1/2 the potency of the feat, i was saying that they'd use effectively the same reasoning. just like red contributed 1/2 the energy, 1 time piece would contribute 1/??? the potency. also just about any feasible number of time pieces used would still be within 4-A tiers, a dimension w/ a starry sky feat is 1.688e63 joules, even 1000 time pieces would still be 1e60 joules per.
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Hat Kid didn't kick it, she just pushed them into Mustache Girl which would be much more associated to lifting strength. I mean if you want to use that argument that unironically gives you far more people alive then you initially had so that sounds even less like an effortless oe-shot.

That's not the same reasoning, hence the false equivalence. A half contribution of energy is far more reasonable and useable then 1/??? contribution of energy, also it wouldn't. Also I'm very sure this site doesn't numbers like that into account. Though I can't say for sure. Also for another thing, Rexor, the issue you're missing is the fact that this feat is being done overtime, not instant if we take that into account. So no each individual piece wouldn't even reach those joules or it should've been able to create part of the starry sky itself without hundreds needing to fall.
 
Wokistan said:
I get notifications but I also have college to do. Not exactly on this site a ton rn.

If the contention is pocket dimension stuff, I have gripes with the general concept of that. However, based off the OP, I'm not seeing why ringing that bell would scale to her AP?
Click to expand...
No it's via mustache girl throwing a time piece onto the floor that creates a starry sky, it's accepted as her creating it as the dimension falls apart once she's defeated with her noting her powers are fading.
 
So, why would that scale out to anything else she does? It doesn't even sound like it's her power, even if we are to take it as an AP feat. Seems like she just uses a weird artifact, the background changes, and so on.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Hat Kid didn't kick it, she just pushed them into Mustache Girl which would be much more associated to lifting strength. I mean if you want to use that argument that unironically gives you far more people alive then you initially had so that sounds even less like an effortless oe-shot.

That's not the same reasoning, hence the false equivalence. A half contribution of energy is far more reasonable and useable then 1/??? contribution of energy, also it wouldn't. Also I'm very sure this site doesn't numbers like that into account. Though I can't say for sure. Also for another thing, Rexor, the issue you're missing is the fact that this feat is being done overtime, not instant if we take that into account. So no each individual piece wouldn't even reach those joules or it should've been able to create part of the starry sky itself without hundreds needing to fall.
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she does actually kick it if you look at the animation, plus she can still knock it around with her umbrella too. also, there are about 100 (i counted, not including dwellers and those racoons) people in the entire castle, it's very unlikely mu could've killed all of them with only that laser. you can still hear about 5 or 6 mafia die along with other fodders. plus the one mafia in the cutscene didn't even need to be aimed at, all it took was mustache girl sweeping the laser around the area.

i'm gonna have to agree with you on the 4-A dimension creation thing. although the dimension does instantly collapse at the end of the fight like the others said, which would probably still put the cast at 4-A.
Wokistan said:
So, why would that scale out to anything else she does? It doesn't even sound like it's her power, even if we are to take it as an AP feat. Seems like she just uses a weird artifact, the background changes, and so on.
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hat kid can take hits from the time pieces' lasers, and mustache girl can hurt hat kid by slapping, so it should scale to them and the others.
 
it isn't shown that the realm is slowly decaying, all we see is it shaking. plus the dimension only vanishes when you land the final hit on mustache girl. also those time pieces are probably just to attack hat kid like they are in the ultra snatcher fight.
 
Why would we scale the background change out to something so fundamentally different? Also, are there any other feats remotely near 4-A that would make this more consistent?
 
Wokistan said:
Why would we scale the background change out to something so fundamentally different? Also, are there any other feats remotely near 4-A that would make this more consistent?
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It was that mustache girl actively created a void and then after all the time pieces falls she creates a realm with stars, upon the time pieces and her power weakening, the realm shakes and then upon finally defeating her it's removed.

The other feat used for 4-A was death wish time piece creating time rifts which have this. Though personally I think it's safer to put it as whatever their physicals will be rated as and 4-A with Time Pieces
 
Time rifts are more so hax rather than AP, but considering the fight with Mustache Girl was apparently being shaken and destroyed via physical means, it's a pretty solid AP feat by the looks of it.
 
Wokistan and Medeus:

Thank you for helping out.
 
If you're talking about the whole energy per second rule, that mostly applies to heat/radiation/electricity feats. Physical strikes are more akin to energy per strike; though withstanding multiple hits to stack durability is against the rules, but dividing the destruction yield by the number of required hits can sometimes be okay. Furthermore, pocket realities can be more durable than their size if the character or artifact is actively keeping it all stabilized.

I know it seems solid for the artifacts being used to scale, but if the artifact has proof of amping the user's physical stats on the same level, that's also solid. Though, Hat Kid is specifically attacking a Time Piece amped Mustache Girl to eventually collapse the dimension, so at least End game Hat Kid is hinted on the Tier 4 likely being on board with her physical stats.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
If you're talking about the whole energy per second rule, that mostly applies to heat/radiation/electricity feats. Physical strikes are more akin to energy per strike; though withstanding multiple hits to stack durability is against the rules, but dividing the destruction yield by the number of required hits can sometimes be okay. Furthermore, pocket realities can be more durable than their size if the character or artifact is actively keeping it all stabilized.

I know it seems solid for the artifacts being used to scale, but if the artifact has proof of amping the user's physical stats on the same level, that's also solid. Though, Hat Kid is specifically attacking a Time Piece amped Mustache Girl to eventually collapse the dimension, so at least End game Hat Kid is hinted on the Tier 4 likely being on board with her physical stats.
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What I mean is that the 4-A feat is caused by hundreds of time pieces falling and breaking which eventually create a 4-A realm.

I honestly feel she should be split into an end game vs early game key, even if there's no official indication she's getting stronger she jumps from fighting people with a single time piece amp to fighting someone with 25x time pieces and gets various badges that help give her stronger attacks and she's able to fight stronger variations of the bosses (even Mustache Girl EX).
 
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Okay, so with that linked video, what even drives us to assume it's really large enough to contain all those stars as opposed to them just being another weird lighting effect, considering the entire rest of the thing is made of flashing lights and colors? It seems like the platform itself has a border to it too, which furthers it not actually being just randomly quadrillions of times larger than what's apparent.
 
Alright since DDM is fine with that I assume the changes can be made.

So from what I'm assuming DDM is agreeing too

Hat Kid will get 2-3 keys

Beginning/Mid Game | End Game | EX Challenges (If an EX Challenges key is needed or not)

First key will be At least 9-B, likely higher which is what all the bosses will be scaled to and end game Hat Kid along with Mustache Girl are 4-A from what I saw DDM agree with.
 
Wokistan said:
Okay, so with that linked video, what even drives us to assume it's really large enough to contain all those stars as opposed to them just being another weird lighting effect, considering the entire rest of the thing is made of flashing lights and colors? It seems like the platform itself has a border to it too, which furthers it not actually being just randomly quadrillions of times larger than what's apparent.
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Which one are you talking about? The Time Rift or the final boss fight?
 
Actually, on second thought, the falling scene with all those "Stars" and "Nebulas" in the background don't really look much like them and could just be illusions via lighting effects. I thought the first thread where the upgrades were made mentioned something about her creating an entire world or dimension, but I'm not seeing that now. I'm starting to doubt the 4-A rating if that's the case, but the other upgrades are fine.
 
I know about that scene, but I think Time Rift is another thing people had issues with. There isn't really violent shakes or collapsing that dimension mid combat unlike the other one. I do see a starry sky, but it doesn't appear to be like a combat applicable creation feat and seems to just be considered time manipulation. Which more simple levels of reality warping aren't things agreed to be AP all that much based on more recent discussions on other threads.
 
It seems like 4-A has been rejected by Wokistan and Medeus then.

Thank you both for helping out btw.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I know about that scene, but I think Time Rift is another thing people had issues with. There isn't really violent shakes or collapsing that dimension mid combat unlike the other one. I do see a starry sky, but it doesn't appear to be like a combat applicable creation feat and seems to just be considered time manipulation. Which more simple levels of reality warping aren't things agreed to be AP all that much based on more recent discussions on other threads.
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Oh it's via time rifts which are created via time pieces crashing into things:
No clue if that's not enough then I assume we can just upgrade their range right?
 
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