A few questions about the strength about Sans hax/powers.

[Silentpixels]

I know next to nothing about Sans hax/AP so bare with me

What tier is Sans' soul manip and does KR help it out in any way? To what extent can he ignore durability with soul manip or magic?

Also what tier is his gravity manip and danmaku?

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Ok, you seem to be a little confused in the way we do things. We don't really have a 'tier', per se for things like gravity manip, soul manip, magic, danmaku, the like. We really take it on a case by case basis, and assume that the strongest showing that a character has with that power is their upper limit.

But, to try and answer your questions...

Sans' soul manip is very powerful, it is able to affect Chara, who was 2-C when Sans fought her. So, that's how extreme his durability negation is. KARMA does assist his soul manipulation, but it is a very tricky subject. With the absence of any other evidence, we assume that KARMA works as soul poison, and is NOT AFFECTED by the sins of a character. So, LOVE has no relation to KARMA. The connection was only popularised by fans, and until we get the word of Toby Fox himself, we will not accept that theroy. So, yeah, KARMA does assist with his soul manipulation, allowing him to poison his opponents, while still ignoring any durability they may have.

Gravity Manipulation is Sans flinging his opponent around the battle arena. Gives him a bonus against standard melee range opponents.

And finally, his Danmaku just tells us that Sans is wont to spam his attacks to the nth degree, and it is completely in character for him to utilise his most powerful attacks as quickly as possible in order to finish his opponent off.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

/Az: No. Frisk was not 2-C.


His gravity manip, like most, is decided by lifting strenght. We don't know how good it is, but it's likely around class 1-5.

Danmaku has no tier, but he's is one of the most brutal ones in-game.

Soulhax ignores durability, so it would work on all 3D enemies without resistance (Up to low-end High 3-A)

 

[Apatheticskell]

Sans' KARMA inducement does do damage based on sins now for the following reasons.

first of all whenever you get hit by KR the lines you get are the following.

-You felt your sins crawlin on your back.

-You felt your sins weighing on your neck.

-You felt KARMA coursing through your veins.

-You felt KARMA for your sins.(not sure about this one.)

and Second of all during the Asriel pacifist fight we reach a section where we are supposed to fight Sans and Papyrus.

Every single Attack we get hit by does'nt deal KR damage for some reason. Sans is attacking we know this much since Asriel's controlling him in order to kill Frisk. Keep in mind this is a pacifist run and Frisk has'nt committed sins hence why KR damage won't work on them but in the genocide route it does.

third of all

Undertale is a game about consequences and this would make sense if Sans deals damage based on sins.

Fourth of all this wiki and the Undertale wiki calls it KARMA.


And about his strength

I'd suggest Unkown rather than 8-C

Flowey survived being hit by Toriel which makes hit dura 7-C and then Sans defeated Flowey numerous times without soul manipulation.(some might say he negated dura via KARMA but KARMA is soul poison so no he can't negate Flowey's dura.) But then every other characters stats get amplified via having greater stats than Sans. But then Flowey survived an Attack from Toriel and this time if Sans' is 7-C tori should be at least 7-B and that makes flowey's dura the same as Toriel's AP. Sans harmed Flowey without soul manipulation or KARMA so this would make him at least 7-B again and since tori has greater stats than Sans she has a higher AP and Flowey survived her Attack making him the same as Toriel but then Sans harmed Flowey Making him(you get the point.)

Here can be the possible explanations for this,

Maybe Sans' scales to Toriel which makes no sense since Tori has better stats.

Toriel might not be attacking with full force which is also false since monsters can't control how hard they hit.

Sans negated Flowey's durability with soul manipulation, KARMA and his 1 ATK Attack value. Sans can't manipulate Flowey's soul since Flowey does'nt have one. KARMA is soul poison which won't work on Flowey. Sans' 1 ATK Attack value is also via soul manipulation.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Again, that's for a crt boi.