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A couple of small Dragon Ball revisions (I'm lying)

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"If my power increases, doesn't my speed increase along with it?"
This site accepts and applies the Great Ape and Kaio-ken multipliers to Attack Potency and Speed, because they are multipliers that are established in-universe, rather than from databooks such as the Super Saiyan transformation and Fusion methods. However, just like we accept those multipliers, why don't we accept and apply jumps in battle power to character stats?

When a character's power increases or their power is slated to increase, it's referred to as multiplication on numerous occasions.

This doesn't just affect Attack Potency, though. In Chapter 55 of Dragon Ball Z, "Vegeta's True Power", Vegeta states that "If my power increases, doesn't my speed increase along with it?" after dodging a surprise attack from Cui with relative ease, meaning both Attack Potency and Speed are increased with these multipliers.

How does this affect the scaling?
For the sake of accurate as possible scaling, I'll only be multiplying stats when characters themselves get stronger. I won't use the difference between one character and a stronger character to determine the stronger character's stats, they have to scale to the other character's stats. J- Just look at Raditz.

Firstly, this speed calculation has been accepted, which puts Piccolo at the beginning of Z at baseline 5-C (29.6 exatons) and 0.610581134c. When Bulma gauged his battle power with the Scouter in Chapter 15, it was 329, so I'll assume that's the weighted Power Level he maintained during the previous chapter.

His full power is 408 which is a 1.24012158x difference, meaning an unweighted Piccolo is 36.7075988 exatons (5-C) and 0.757194841c. Goku and Raditz both scale to this.

  • Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon had a Power Level of 1,330 which is a 3.25980392x difference, so that's 119.659574 exatons (5-C) and 2.46830671c. Only Raditz would scale to the speed, since he managed to react to and dodge it, and an enraged Gohan who was slightly more powerful than him, but they wouldn't scale to the AP. They reason Goku and Piccolo don't scale to the speed as well because Raditz is several times more powerful than Goku and Piccolo and made a complete joke out of them in their fight.
  • Goku's regular Power Level was 416 and his charged Kamehameha had a Power Level of 924 meaning it increased by 2.22115385x. That means that his charged Kamehameha is 81.5332244 exatons (5-C) and 1.68184624c. This only scales to Raditz, as he dodged it and destroyed it with one hand, and enraged Gohan for the reasons above.
Goku's Power Level increased to over 8,000 after training, meaning his stats increased by at least 19.2307692x. His Attack Potency is, at the very least, 705.91536 exatons (Low 5-B) and 14.5614392c, which only scales to Vegeta, who's 5-B and way more powerful than him, and likely Nappa, who forced him into using Kaio-ken.

Piccolo, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, and Gohan are more powerful than the Saibamen who are as powerful as Raditz, meaning they scale to 81.5332244 exatons (5-C) and 1.68184624c. Chiaotzu and Yajirobe, on the other hand, only scale to 29.6 exatons (5-C) and 0.610581134c for being more powerful than moon bust Piccolo.

Gohan's Power Level in the Saiyan Saga was 981 and rose to 1,500 after training on his way to Namek, a 1.52905199x increase in power. They scale to 124.668539 exatons (5-C) and 2.57163034c, with Krillin having a Power Level equal to his, so he scales to this as well. The Frieza Soldiers don't, for obvious reasons.

Of course, Saiyan Saga Vegeta, with a Power Level of 18,000, scaled to baseline 59.44 zettatons (5-B) and 14.5614392c. Cui is equal to him, and Zarbon and Dodoria scale above this. However, during his fight with Cui, his power increases to 24,000 which is 1.33333333x, meaning he scales to 59.2533331 zettatons (5-B) and 19.4152522c.

After their potential was unleashed, Gohan and Krillin's Power Levels raised to 10,000+, a jump by 6.66666667x, thus scaling them to 831.123594 exatons (Low 5-B) and 17.1442023c. Guldo is much less powerful than them and was speedblitzed by them in the fight, so he wouldn't scale. He would only scale to their AP with Telekinesis. However, the Namekian Warriors had Power Levels of 3,000 meaning they scale to 124.668539 exatons (5-C) and 2.57163034c, and I doubt Guldo is less powerful than them, so he could scale to that without Telekinesis.

The Viz translation and original kanzenban all give Vegeta a Power Level of "20,000 and rising", but apparently, this was later revised to 30,000 and rising, so I'll go ahead and give him that 1.25x increase, meaning he now scales to 99.0666664 zettatons (5-B) and 24.2690653c. Recoome, Jeice, and Burter scale above that, with Burter being the fastest of the three.

Nail has a Power Level of 42,000 which is higher than Vegeta's, so he scales to 99.0666664 zettatons (5-B) and 24.2690653c.

Goku's Power Level after training on his way to Namek is weird but not too weird. Captain Ginyu estimates that it's about 85,000, but his Power Level in Kaio-ken is 160,000 which means his base would be 80,000, and the back of Dragon Ball Z's eighth volume states that his strength and speed increased ten-fold after training, so yeah, it's 80,000. This means that he scales to 7.05915361 yottatons (5-A) and 145.614392c. Ginyu is more powerful than them, by Goku's admission, and forced him into Kaio-ken. With Kaio-ken, his stats increase to 14.1183072 yottatons (5-A) and 291.228784c, but that doesn't scale to anyone at the moment.

The next and final Power Levels that we get in-universe are Frieza's Power Level of 530,000 which puts him far above Goku's Kaio-ken, so he scales above 14.1183072 yottatons and 291.228784c. But of course, he has his own 1.7 tenatons (High 5-A) feat, while still scaling above 291.228784c. Third Zenkai Vegeta scales to this. In his Second Form, his Power Level increases to over 1,000,000 which is a 1.88679245x boost, meaning he scales to 3.20754716 tenatons (High 5-A) and 549.488271c, which only scales to Piccolo after assimilating with Nail and an enraged Gohan (after Krillin was stabbed). In his Third Form, he is vastly superior to his Second Form, which is slightly below High 5-A, so he should scale to High 5-A+ and above 549.488271c which scales to an enraged Gohan (after Piccolo was bullied to near-death) and apparently scales to fourth Zenkai Vegeta.

Final Form Frieza is vastly superior to his Third Form, meaning on his own, he should be Low 4-C. Goku scales above Vegeta, and Third Form Frieza as a result, meaning he scales above High 5-A+, which I'll assume is 7.4885248 tenatons, baseline plus, and 549.488271c. Frieza with 50% of his power managed to block Goku's Kaio-ken x20 Kamehameha with one hand, meaning he scales above 149.770496 tenatons (4-C) and 10989.7654c, with his 100% scaling to 299.540992 tenatons (4-C) and 21979.5308c, which scales to Super Saiyan Goku.

And now, we introduce THE SCALING CHAIN.
Mecha Frieza > 299.540992 tenatons (4-C) and 21979.5308c since he stated he had powered up since last time and was confidence in being able to take on Super Saiyan Goku, despite already knowing how powerful SSJ Goku was at that point in time. King Cold is comparable to him, so he's in the same boat.

SSJ Future Trunks is far superior to both Mecha Frieza and King Cold, so >> 299.540992 tenatons (4-C) and 21979.5308c. SSJ Goku, post-Yardrat, scales above SSJ Future Trunks.

Everyone is much more powerful than they were before since they've trained for three years in preparation for the Androids, so...

  • Yamcha and Tien >>>>>> 81.5332244 exatons (5-C) and 1.68184624c, since on top of the three years of training in the Android Saga, they also trained with King Kai for quite some time during the Namek Saga, at least a month if I can recall correctly. Of course, Yamcha was mistaken for Saiyan Saga Goku by Android 19 based on his energy signature, so he would scale to 705.91536 exatons (Low 5-B) and 14.5614392c at the very least. And, assuming Tien scales to him, he would also scale to that, duh.
  • Chiaotzu >>>>>> 29.6 exatons (5-C) and 0.610581134c for the reasons above.
  • Gohan and Krillin >>> 831.123594 exatons (Low 5-B) and 17.1442023c.
  • Piccolo >>> 3.20754716 tenatons (High 5-A) and 549.488271c.
  • Vegeta >>>>>> 7.4885248 tenatons (High 5-A+) and 549.488271c since he was already far superior to Piccolo and more powerful than Third Form Frieza in the Namek Saga before training for three years in 300/450/morethan100g with the Gravity Machine. Considering Goku trained for six days on his way to Namek in 100g and became ten times more powerful, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to assume that Vegeta grew more than ten times more powerful, meaning he would be >>> 74.885248 tenatons (Low 4-C+) and 5494.88271c.
  • Goku >>>>>>>>> 7.4885248 tenatons (High 5-A+) and 549.488271c because after his Zenkai in the Namek Saga, he had already surpassed third-Zenkai Vegeta and Third Form Frieza while holding back, and after the explosion of Namek, he trained for around a year on Yardrat. Then, we add the three year training amp on top of that.
    • SSJ Goku >>>>> 299.540992 tenatons (4-C) and 21979.5308c since he was already more powerful than SSJ Trunks before training.
Vegeta claimed he surpassed Goku as a Super Saiyan, which he then proved by fodderizing Android 19, who absorbed SSJ Goku's energy and began to bully him once his virus started to take a toll on his body, meaning he scales above >>>>> 299.540992 tenatons (4-C) and 21979.5308c, >>>>>> if you will. Since Android 19 absorbed SSJ Goku's energy and then absorbed some of Vegeta's energy, and still got fodderized by SSJ Vegeta, I don't believe it's too far-fetched to say that SSJ Vegeta is 2x SSJ Goku, so he would be >>>>>> 599.081984 tenatons (4-C+) and 43959.0616c.

Android 18 contended with and then overpowered SSJ Vegeta, albeit after he began to exhaust, before pummeling him and effortlessly breaking his arms. Then, she blocked and destroyed SSJ Future Trunks' sword with one arm, before fodderizing him, so she's > 599.081984 tenatons (4-C+) and 43959.0616c.

Android 17 is more powerful than Android 18 and was equal to Kamicollo in their fight, with Kamicollo scaling far above SSJ Vegeta and Future Trunks, meaning both he and Kamicollo are >> 599.081984 tenatons (4-C+) and 43959.0616c. At this point, they might as well be > 760.516 tenatons (High 4-C).

Pre-Massacre Imperfect Cell is around > 760.516 tenatons (High 4-C) and 43959.0616c for not being completely fodderized by Kamicollo and putting up a decent fight against him, even managing to absorb some of him. Post-Massacre Imperfect absolutely fodderized Kamicollo and Android 17, so >> 760.516 tenatons (High 4-C) and 43959.0616c. Android 16 scales to this for being equal to him, even overpowering him at some point in the fight.

Semi-Perfect Cell fodderized Android 16 and even no-sold his attacks, so he would be >~ 1.521032 Foe (High 4-C) and 87918.1232c. Then, Super Vegeta and 2nd Grade SSJ Trunks scale to each other, with Super Vegeta bullying Semi-Perfect Cell without having to try, meaning they're >> 1.521032 Foe (High 4-C) and 87918.1232c. The Cell Juniors would scale above this due to being able to keep up with stronger versions of Super Vegeta and 2nd Grade SSJ Trunks during the Cell Games.

A heavily suppressed Perfect Cell completely fodderized Super Vegeta and no-sold his attacks, so he's >~ 3.042064 Foe (High 4-C) and 175836.246c. Of course, Super Trunks scales above, but has slower speed due to his bulkiness. I doubt he's any slower than SSJ Trunks from the beginning of the saga, though, so this isn't a rating downgrade.

SSJ Full Power Goku scales above >~ 3.042064 Foe (High 4-C) and 175836.246c due to fighting an even stronger and less suppressed Cell, and even nearly destroying him with the Shunkan Ido Kamehameha, with SSJ Full Power Gohan of course scaling above this. Their base forms shouldn't be any tiers lower, seeing just how meager the multiplier of Super Saiyan is but for the sake of the chain, we'll scale them above Kamicollo. Cell at full power massively scales above all of this, so his current High 4-C+ rating is cool.

Super Perfect Cell scales above all of that by an insane margin, so he's >>>> 175836.246c and irrefutably 1.053 KiloFOE (4-B), which in turn scales to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, who managed to hold his own against Cell's Solar Kamehameha while holding back and with less than half of his power remaining, ultimately defeating him after unleashing all of his power. This means SSJ2 Gohan in the Cell Games scales to >>> 351672.492c and 2.10600 KiloFoe (4-B).

Buu Saga Gohan has gotten out of shape, but he should still be in the same tier. Daizenshuu states that his power has remained stagnant since the Cell Games, which makes sense. I doubt he would drop a tier, so yeah, he's still > 760.516 tenatons (High 4-C) and 43959.0616c, and around 3.042064 Foe (High 4-C) and 175836.246c as a Super Saiyan before training with Goten in preparation for the Tenkaichi Budokai. So yeah, Goten is comparable to Gohan, with the Daizenshuu supporting this, meaning his stats would be rated the same. Trunks would scale to him, due to being slightly stronger, and then the two became stronger and equal to each other after training in the Room of Spirit and Time.

Vegeta stated that he and Goku had grown stronger than Gohan by that time, so Goku remains in the same tier, with base Vegeta being upgraded to > 760.516 tenatons (High 4-C) and 43959.0616c. In Super Saiyan, Goku threatened Shin, whose power was described as by Piccolo as being dimensions apart from his, meaning he would be >>>>>> 760.516 tenatons (High 4-C) and 43959.0616c. On top of that, Shin has that one 11.293529 Foe (High 4-C+) feat, which upgrades Goku to High 4-C+ as well. Vegeta required Babidi's Manipulation Sorcery in order to skyrocket beyond his maximum and contend with Goku, so he's obviously weaker than Goku, meaning he would be "Large Star level, possibly Large Star level+".

This is slightly going against the "only in-universe Power Levels" rule, but this is all we can work off of. Yakon is stated to have a Kili of 800, with V-Jump stating that 1 Kili is equal to a Power Level of 1,000. That gives us a Power Level of 800,000 meaning he's superior to First Form Frieza, so he's > 1.7 tenatons (High 5-A) and 291.228784c.

In Super Saiyan 2, Gohan proved a bit much for Shin to handle with Paralysis, so he scales to that 11.293529 Foe (High 4-C+) feat, but we all know this. The only reason he isn't able to access that 4-B power from the Cell Games is because he doesn't have the anger to push Super Saiyan 2 to its fullest potential. Dabura is more powerful than Shin, is stated to be comparable to Perfect Cell, and held his own against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, so he's also > 11.293529 Foe (High 4-C+) and 43959.0616c.

Super Saiyan 2 Goku and Majin Vegeta are stated to have surpassed Super Saiyan 2 Gohan from the Cell Games, which means the two of them are > 351672.492c and 2.10600 KiloFoe (4-B). Majin Buu then proceeds to completely make a joke out of Majin Vegeta, so he is >>>~ 703344.984c and 4.212 KiloFoe (4-B).

After being healed and receiving a Zenkai Boost, Gohan became powerful enough to pull the Z-Sword from the stone, a feat that Shin and Kibito proved incapable of performing, which means that post-Zenkai Gohan is > 11.293529 Foe (High 4-C+) and 43959.0616c. This also scales to Goku after the encounter with Majin Buu, since he was able to block a strike with the sword from Gohan upon teleporting to him. This would also scale to characters who can destroy Katchin or stronger materials, such as Kachi Katchin, as not even Gohan was able to slice through a block of Katchin with the Z-Sword. Gohan then proceeded to get much stronger than this after training.

And, after all of this, the top-tiers characters just scale above Super Saiyan 2 Goku and Vegeta, who both scale above Super Saiyan 2 Gohan from the Cell Games, which would just be a bunch of arrows adding up to a bunch of 4-Bs and MFTL+ ratings, so it would be completely redundant.

even if we don't keep the speed, can we keep the attack potency?

Power Additions and Revisions
These are just off the top of my head.
Everyone with Ki Manipulation, so virtually everyone:

Damage Boost (Capable of concentrating ki into a specific point, typically the hands or fingers, or exhaust their life force in order to increase the power of [his/her] attacks)
Kamehameha, Special Beam Cannon, Tri-Beam, Spirit Ball, really just any charged energy attack. This is just how it works.

Ki Manipulation (Can be used defensively and offensively, to strengthen [his/her] skin, generate intense auras, fire ki blasts, which can even atomize its targets, or form defensive barriers)
The part about auras is there because auras often carry electricity and sometimes have an effect on those who touch it and the environment around it. When Nappa and Goku (when ascending) powered up, they shook the entire planet. I have no idea if this actually counts as an aura, but the Recoome Eraser Gun warped Namek's oceans when it was fired.

It's stated numerous times, both in the original story and in databooks, that characters have the ability to reduce its targets to atoms with energy blasts. Most of the time, energy blasts vaporize their targets, though, so perhaps it depends on the character's level of power and how much energy is being focused into their attack.

The part about the ki blasts being able to home in on targets was removed, because not every character has been shown to be able to do that. Along with that, homing attacks (Bending Kamehameha, Twin Dragon Shot, Spirit Ball, Scattering Bullet, etc.) are often treated as extraordinary feats performed by combat geniuses, even by experienced combatants.

Piccolo stated that the only reason Gohan was unable to keep a visual lock on Yamcha and the Saibaman during their fight was because he was not actually using Ki Sensing, meaning that users of the ability can enhance their vision by utilizing Ki Sensing. This revision only applies to characters with basic Ki Sensing descriptions, the usual "Can locate others by reading their ki". You could find some way to splice "enhance [his/her] own vision" into the descriptions of characters with unique descriptions, like Goku and Piccolo.


Son Goku (Dragon Ball Z):

Son Gohan (Dragon Ball Z):

Oh no. Quick note just from skimming: Power Levels are in no way linear. I see you saying things like 1.2x Increase and whatnot, but that’s not how Power Level works, not even in the original DB.
Yeah. You can’t really scale Stats like this. Completely disagree.
The Abilities seem fine though. This is coming from someone who doesn’t know DB at all, however, so I’d prefer If a more knowledgeable member spoke up about it.
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Using the OP’s logic, since the Farmer with a Shotgun has a PL of 5, he’s only 65.8 times weaker than the weighted Piccolo that destroyed the moon. This would make every regular human in Dragon Ball High 6-A.
Power Levels are estimations of one's physical capabilities and their Ki capacity combined. That's why the Farmer has a Power Level of 5 and is an average Earthling, and Piccolo has a Power Level of 329 but can destroy the moon. The Farmer and other Earthlings are a non-factor, because they don't have the physical capabilities to achieve a high Power Level, and they don't even have the ability to manipulate Ki and have never trained to increase their Ki capacity, leaving their Power Level desperately low in comparison. But, when it comes to characters with both of those aspects in spades, it's pretty linear.

When a character's power rises and when they release their Ki, their Power Level begins to skyrocket by a linear amount. Such examples include the power of Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon steadily increasing by hundreds, Goku powering up before confronting Nappa, Vegeta reaching a Power Level of 20,000 and rising before his fight with Recoome. Goku's Power Level rising as he powers up with Kaio-ken, et cetera. Vegeta also states that power and speed increase at the same time, so once again, it's not exponential, it's very clearly linear. There is also the statement from the back of Z's eighth volume in the OP that states that Goku's power increased tenfold after training in the Gravity Machine, meaning his power increased linearly due to training.

Transformations and power-ups such as the Kaio-ken and Great Ape state increase their user's Power Level by a predetermined and linear variable, so once again, more proof of Power Levels coming from characters with insane physical abilities and large amounts of Ki capacity being scaled linearly.

It's obvious that Power Levels are scaled linearly, and when one character is stated to have a Power Level higher than someone else's, or when a character's Power Level suddenly increases by a concrete and linearly upscaled amount due to Damage Boost or just because of training or a power-up, you can make the argument that "X is x-times as powerful as Y" based off of their Power Levels. Goku's base Power Level is 80,000, but when he enters Kaio-ken, his power suddenly increases by two-fold?! His Power Level is now 160,000! That's how that works.

Given all of this evidence, the scale seems pretty sound, especially given the numerous "power multiplied many times" and "many times greater than X" statements in the series. While there a few wedges in the scale, such as random ratings showing up from out of nowhere, they're pretty close to what's already been scaled at that point and are pretty accurate to the current "X >>>>>>>>> whatever some other Y scaled to" scaling that the verse scaling used, with the exception of the speed, Power Levels are not like One For All percentages. They're scaled linearly, with plenty of evidence to back that up, rather than exponentially like I assume most people assume.


VS Battles
Power levels from DB and early Saiyan Saga are completely arbitrary and aren't linear at all. You can't create multiples via power levels at the point in the series.

The ability additions and rewrites look fine.

But as others have said, one CRT per verse, and there is still an active one on Dragon Ball - so I will lock this until that one is done.


Maintenance worker
VS Battles
You can send a message to Warren to unlock this thread afterwards.
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