A battle of steel! Roronoa vs Gajeel Redfox

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I don't think Gajeel's scales were ever stated to be embued with Magic.

Bro what... It's literally a Magic Spell...

 

[LordGinSama]

Bro what... It's literally a Magic Spell...

For attacking yes, as far as his iron scales on his body goes i don't think that was ever stated to be made of magical iron.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean it's iron that is magically created by Gajeel, it's both an offense and defense spell, so yes, it is Magical Iron

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The Extrasensory Perception I'm referring too can feel the breathe of inanimate objects allowing Zoro the ability to cut through them with his dura neg, for this case Gajeel's iron.

But is gajeels magic iron really an inanimate object though?

Also why can't regular observation haki sense ethernanos or am I missing something?

I think the question isn't "why can't it" it's "why can it", we have to show observation being able to sense super natural forces like this. I think the closest thing is being able to sense people's auras. So one question, in fairy tail, what are the requirements to sense magic power or ethernanos?
I feel like we can't really continue since we're just speculating with a super vague ability and different power systems.

 

[Zackra1799]

Information Analysis which allowed Zoro to tell a sword was cursed without prior knowledge should be enough to tell what Etherano is anyhow.

Curses are completely different than Magic in Fairy Tail so curse sensing doesn't help, we also don't even know if One Piece curses are even comparable to Fairy Tail curses besides the name as we know almost nothing about them in One Piece.

The Extrasensory Perception I'm referring too can feel the breathe of inanimate objects allowing Zoro the ability to cut through them with his dura neg, for this case Gajeel's iron.

It's listed under haki no one else other than Zoro has shown this ability. Also why can't regular observation haki sense ethernanos or am I missing something?

Unless Zoro's Extrasensory perception covers Magic in verse then its a big stretch to say that it can sense anything inanimate, Especially something outside of his own verse. Currently he can cut through Flesh and Steel with his Desire ability, Given that we don't know the limits of said ability, assuming that it can work on something outside of its own verse goes against the possibly limited Nature of the ability. So until it gest explained better it should only be considered for things Zoro has actually used it on. Otherwise I can see plenty of people claim NLF about it in the future.

I think the question isn't "why can't it" it's "why can it", we have to show observation being able to sense super natural forces like this. I think the closest thing is being able to sense people's auras. So one question, in fairy tail, what are the requirements to sense magic power or ethernanos?
I feel like we can't really continue since we're just speculating with a super vague ability and different power systems.

The ability to sense magic is something Mages attain once they acquire magic. For example the people of Edolas can't sense magic naturally, despite there being enough magic to keep the islands floating. The reason for this is because they have no magic. So unless Zoro is a wizard, he can't sense magic.

 

[LordGinSama]

Curses are completely different than Magic in Fairy Tail so curse sensing doesn't help, we also don't even know if One Piece curses are even comparable to Fairy Tail curses besides the name as we know almost nothing about them in One Piece.

Curses in One Piece and Curse Power are also very different, One Piece curses bring a violent death to the user, the Curses aren't at all comparable to Curse Power in Fairy Tail which stems from the original Magic and Negative emotions and offer Magic-Esque like abilities. Curses in One Piece are based upon unfortune, Curse Power in Fairy Tail aren't.

Unless Zoro's Extrasensory perception covers Magic in verse then its a big stretch to say that it can sense anything inanimate, Especially something outside of his own verse.

Kenbunshoku Haki users can already sense invisible shit, i see no reason why they can't sense Magic whenever it isn't invisible, Kenbunshoku Haki users can sense invisible shit so they should logically be able to sense Magic.

Currently he can cut through Flesh and Steel with his Desire ability, Given that we don't know the limits of said ability, assuming that it can work on something outside of its own verse goes against the possibly limited Nature of the ability.

It's Inherently durability Negation, Gajeel's steel isn't that much different from the real thing so Zoro would be able to cut it regardless. And the possibly is only there due to the Breath of All Things not being elaborated further upon, that's the only reason why it's set as "Possible"

So until it gest explained better it should only be considered for things Zoro has actually used it on. Otherwise I can see plenty of people claim NLF about it in the future.

It doesn't need to be elaborated further upon in the verse, Zoro already has feats of cutting apart Steel with his ability, there isn't any NLF about it. If they wanna cut steel they'll do so, if they wanna cut a rock with no momentum they'll do so. NLF's can only be applied whenever people make it out to be as such, use common sense and there'll be no NLF. They obviously can't cut shit vastly above their pay grade.

The ability to sense magic is something Mages attain once they acquire magic. For example the people of Edolas can't sense magic naturally, despite there being enough magic to keep the islands floating. The reason for this is because they have no magic. So unless Zoro is a wizard, he can't sense magic.

Kenbunshoku Haki users can sense invisible shit, the people of Edolas can't so that comparison falls flat. Etherano isn't invisible, they're just Magical Particles in the air and Kenbunshoku can see invisible shit clearly.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

“Curses in One Piece and Curse Power are also very different”

Verse Equalization

“Curse Power in Fairy Tail which stems from the original Magic”

Once again, false history and origin of Curses

Also unless Zoro can see molecules, then he can’t see Ethernano’s

 

[Zackra1799]

Kenbunshoku Haki users can already sense invisible shit, i see no reason why they can't sense Magic whenever it isn't invisible, Kenbunshoku Haki users can sense invisible shit so they should logically be able to sense Magic.

Since when is it stated that Ethernano is invisible. Its literally just nature energy in the form of atmospheric particles. Zoro has no way of sensing something like this.

It's Inherently durability Negation, Gajeel's steel isn't that much different from the real thing so Zoro would be able to cut it regardless. And the possibly is only there due to the Breath of All Things not being elaborated further upon, that's the only reason why it's set as "Possible"

Well I disagree, Magic infused Steel is canonically different than regular steel. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

It doesn't need to be elaborated further upon in the verse, Zoro already has feats of cutting apart Steel with his ability, there isn't any NLF about it. If they wanna cut steel they'll do so, if they wanna cut a rock with no momentum they'll do so. NLF's can only be applied whenever people make it out to be as such, use common sense and there'll be no NLF. They obviously can't cut shit vastly above their pay grade.

Yeah no, that isn't a valid comparison. That's like saying Zoro can Dura neg insert any material here when he's only shown for the ability to work on rregular steel and flesh.

Kenbunshoku Haki users can sense invisible shit, the people of Edolas can't so that comparison falls flat. Etherano isn't invisible, they're just Magical Particles in the air and Kenbunshoku can see invisible shit clearly.

Ethernano isn't invisible and is never stated to be invisible so that comparison falls flat, plus Zoro actually has to understand what magic is for his desire cutting to even work in the first place.



Anyways Gajeel takes this he has a massive stat advantage and can eat 2 of Zoro's weapons.

 

[LordGinSama]

“Curses in One Piece and Curse Power are also very different”

Verse Equalization

No, verse Equalization wouldn't comment 8nto effect whenever the two concepts are completely different. So that's irrelevant.

“Curse Power in Fairy Tail which stems from the original Magic”

Once again, false history and origin of Curses

The Origin of curses are directly stated to stem from the original form of Magic, that much is undeniable, the statement came from Mard who's the most knowledgeable regarding curses. No reason to be dismissive of information given to us by the dude whos been around since Curse Power was discovered. Not that it matters since Curse Power isn't probability based.

Also unless Zoro can see molecules, then he can’t see Ethernano’s

Sensing invisible shit >>> Sensing doesn't molecules

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

“The Origin of curses are directly stated to stem from the original form of Magic, that much is undeniable, the statement came from Mard who's the most knowledgeable regarding curses.”

Except you know... He also said END created Curses and did all that, which is completely wrong, making that entire statement wrong...

Besides they are completely different things like I have told you a million times

 

[Zackra1799]

Magic and Curses aren't comparable. Magic could disappear from the world and curse users would be unaffected. They may have stemmed from Ethernano at some point but they are completely separate power system now and are completely unreliant on it's existence.

 

[LordGinSama]

Since when is it stated that Ethernano is invisible. Its literally just nature energy in the form of atmospheric particles. Zoro has no way of sensing something like this.

He's sensed invisible shit, which is inherently harder to sense than molecules. I never said Etherano was invisible, the point was that since Zoro can sense invisible shit then he'd be able to sense molecules. Molecules are just small, they aren't invisible to the sense like how real invisibility works.

Well I disagree, Magic infused Steel is canonically different than regular steel. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

It's embued with Magic, it's still similar enough to naturally occurring steel. I guess now we're insinuating that Slayer's don't produce natural elements at all?

Yeah no, that isn't a valid comparison. That's like saying Zoro can Dura neg insert any material here when he's only shown for the ability to work on rregular steel and flesh.

Again, use common sense and miss me with that Strawman Fallacy. He's Dura Negation has worked against steel that can endure 6-B strikes, stone, flesh, harder than steel materials (Such as Pacifista metal which Zoro shouldn't have had any prior knowledge regarding it's make up.)

Ethernano isn't invisible and is never stated to be invisible so that comparison falls flat,

never said it was so moot point.

plus Zoro actually has to understand what magic is for his desire cutting to even work in the first place.

He just needs to sense it via Breath of All Things and then he'll be able to cut.

Anyways Gajeel takes this he has a massive stat advantage and can eat 2 of Zoro's weapons.

He can eat Zoro's swords as they're embued in Buso Haki.

 

[Rez]

He's sensed invisible shit, which is inherently harder to sense than molecules. I never said Etherano was invisible, the point was that since Zoro can sense invisible shit then he'd be able to sense molecules. Molecules are just small, they aren't invisible to the sense like how real invisibility works.

It's embued with Magic, it's still similar enough to naturally occurring steel. I guess now we're insinuating that Slayer's don't produce natural elements at all?

Again, use common sense and miss me with that Strawman Fallacy. He's Dura Negation has worked against steel that can endure 6-B strikes, stone, flesh, harder than steel materials (Such as Pacifista metal which Zoro shouldn't have had any prior knowledge regarding it's make up.)

never said it was so moot point.

He just needs to sense it via Breath of All Things and then he'll be able to cut.

He can eat Zoro's swords as they're embued in Buso Haki.

You meant to say he can't eat zoro's sword I suppose

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I keep seeing this mention of invisible things. What was invisible? Was it a person? An object? A monster? Because something being invisible is much easier to sense than some random molecules and atoms. Unless whatever was invisible was also intangible, its still leaves a physical effect on the world that can be sensed by even a bog standard human.

 

[LordGinSama]

I keep seeing this mention of invisible things. What was invisible? Was it a person? An object? A monster? Because something being invisible is much easier to sense than some random molecules and atoms. Unless whatever was invisible was also intangible, its still leaves a physical effect on the world that can be sensed by even a bog standard human.

Invisible Gas, Invisible gusts of wind that can bypass Extrasensory perception and camo Invisibility from Sanji's Raid Suit.


A bog standard human isn't sensing anything Invisible I'm not sure where you got that from. No human is gonna sense something Invisible by nature by some stupid anime shit like "I felt the vibrations in the air!" and you do realize molecules still leave a physical effect on the world correct? Molecules and cells aren't intangible, the only stage of matter where it goes beyond physically existing would be matter comparable or smaller than something Planck length.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Okay, gas. We made some progress here. This is something that can actually be compared to particles in nature.

You realise invisibility means that something isn't visible right? Just because something is invisible doesn't mean it's no longer physically there or makes no noise. Except molecules are so small we can't perceive or take note of them with our senses. Gusts of wind make noise, an invisible person makes noise.

 

[Nierre]

Bump

Also voting Gajeel FRA

 

[Rez]

Voting for zoro via durability negation

 

[The_Eldritch_Snowcone]

I'll vote for Gajeel for reasons above.

 

[Cabbage291]

This is something I always wondered. Does Gajeel resist getting hit by metal weapons? Cuz that basically makes this another DF vs DS. Gajeel also has his scales which is x2/x3 amp on his current stats which has him at baseline 6-C at worst. Does Zoro have Haki or any hax that ignores stats cuz a physical fight is not looking good for him afaik.

If I recall correctly, he does. Also he can eat the swords. Because of that, Gajeel wins

 

[SamanPatou]

I give this to Gajeel.

The reason comes mainly from stat advantage, scales which boost his dura and resistance to metal stuff.
I don't think Zoro can dura neg his body, as it clearly isn't common metal, because of magic and supernatural durability. He can still cut it out of sheer force, but it's harder because of wait I said above.

Due to SBA they start at some kilometers, giving Gajeel an initial advantage, as Zoro has to get close. It's true that Gajeel isn't a sniper, and probably would approach some close combat at some point (not that close, though, as he extends his arms), but Dragon Breath and other projectiles can still hit Zoro from distance, and I doubt his air slashes and tornadoes can match the dragon breath, not only due to basic force but also because the breath is continously propelled.

Zoro should take too much anyway, precogn and acrobatics would help him dodge and get close, but he should still take some damage (Gajeel's breath also contains metal shards).

In swordmanship combat Zoro is indeed superior to Gajeel (if you can count sharp arms as swords), though his dura + scales + resistance and ability in cqc would allow him to counter Zoro's style without having too worry that much about the swords.

Eating the swords isn't the most easy of the things, because Gajeel has to grab them during a a physical clash or intercept them. The first is more likely if Gajeel's LS is similar or superior to Zoro's (they are in the same class, but I don't get which of their numbers is higher). There are more odds, like if he catches Enma he isn't going to eat it, and probably the same happens with the others if they are imbued with haki. It gets a bit compensated by the fact that Zoro wouldn't expect Gajeel to eat them and it would catch him by surprise.
But if Gajeel manages to eat them, he gets a boost in power and a stamina refill, which is a plus for him.

I was almost forgetting Shadow Iron Dragon stuff, they aren't bounded to DF iirc, so that's a plus in mobility.

Overall, this wouldn't be easy for Gajeel, but he would win at the end.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I agree, Gajeel for reasons above.

 

[Eminiteable]

Pretty sure if Zoro is unable to Dura negate this is just a stomp.

2.65 Gigatons (which will inevitably become higher after eating Wado & kitetsu) plus can enhance his durability further with scales. Also starts with the range advantage.

550 Megatons (losing most access to amps due to lack of swords) plus deals even less damage due to Gajeel's metal resist.

That's a greater than 4.8 difference that's only going to increase.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Bro gajeel literally turns into iron and uses iron in every attack. My guy zoro will just decapitate before he gets one-shot, his observation haki helps him immensely with this.

What is this lmao, why do u keep neglecting gajeel durability?? Idg do you think his steel is normal steel? Lol steel that can take attacks from dragon force rogue and people way stronger than sting and rogue. Base gajeel fought natsu to a stalemate (although he admitted he lost) but they were pretty even.

Zoro is not cutting gajeel and gajeel is one shotting

 

[PrinceofPein]

He could maybe understand it with the "Breath of All Things" since that's when he first unlocked the whole "mighty swordsman" shit, in that state he was able to "feel the breathe" of objects which allowed him to learn how to cut steel. If he was brought close to death he could probably "feel" Gajeel's iron and learn to cut it, assuming of course that Zoro wouldn't be able to just cut it from the beginning.

So why couldn't he feel the breath to cut through kaido?
Or cut through queen?

Lol

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

That was under the assumption that zoro could durability negate gajeel.

 

[Eminiteable]

So why couldn't he feel the breath to cut through kaido?
Or cut through queen?

Lol

? He has cut through Kaido lol???? Zoro's never fought Queen???

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

He has cut through Kaido lol

only with enma not the durability negation technique.

 

[Eminiteable]

only with enma not the durability negation technique.

Blood coming from Kaido's chest & soundeffect appears for cutting into flesh.

Besides the point though, I made the claim that on the verge of death Zoro is able to understand the breathe of materials allowing his technique to work, Zoro is not on the verge of death against Kaido nor Queen, so can't quite understand the point @Pain_to12 is trying to make.

 

[PrinceofPein]

? He has cut through Kaido lol???? Zoro's never fought Queen???

Zoro fought queen when he was trying to get to the top of the tower, before marco interfered.

And no he could only cut kaido scales cause of enma not cause of his abilities

 

[PrinceofPein]

Blood coming from Kaido's chest & soundeffect appears for cutting into flesh.

Besides the point though, I made the claim that on the verge of death Zoro is able to understand the breathe of materials allowing his technique to work, Zoro is not on the verge of death against Kaido nor Queen, so can't quite understand the point @Pain_to12 is trying to make.

Uhhmmm I'm still making the same point this is base kaido, even the scabbards could cut and stab base kaido, was talking about dragon form or hybrid

 

[Eminiteable]

Zoro fought queen when he was trying to get to the top of the tower, before marco interfered.

And no he could only cut kaido scales cause of enma not cause of his abilities

He never fought Queen??? He sent an air slash at him once to prevent him from hitting chopper, said airslash Queen barely dodged. Not seeing how this can be considered a fight or how this results in "Zoro couldn't cut Queen" lmao.

Uhhmmm I'm still making the same point this is base kaido, even the scabbards could cut and stab base kaido, was talking about dragon form or hybrid

And even the Scabbards could cut dragon Kaido as well, it makes no difference. Still failing to see the point your trying to make.

 

[PrinceofPein]

He never fought Queen??? He sent an air slash at him once to prevent him from hitting chopper, said airslash Queen barely dodged. Not seeing how this can be considered a fight or how this results in "Zoro couldn't cut Queen" lmao.

Okay I concede the queen point

And even the Scabbards could cut dragon Kaido as well, it makes no difference. Still failing to see the point your trying to make.

Uhhmmm the scabbards could not, he thought they were but they were not hence the remark he made that they could not even open up his old scars.


The point I was trying to make was that, you guys made it seem zoro cut will be a one hit kill against gajeel which is not true

 

[Eminiteable]

Okay I concede the queen point

Uhhmmm the scabbards could not, he thought they were but they were not hence the remark he made that they could not even open up his old scars.


The point I was trying to make was that, you guys made it seem zoro cut will be a one hit kill against gajeel which is not true

They lacked the power to reopen his old scar but we see from their attacks they did pierce his body and cause him to draw blood.

I agree it won't be a one hit kill against gajeel, but since Zoro can't sense ethernanos then he's unable to ever understand Gajeel's steel, thus his durability negation is completely useless and Gajeel ap stomps.

 

[PrinceofPein]

They lacked the power to reopen his old scar but we see from their attacks they did pierce his body and cause him to draw blood.

I agree it won't be a one hit kill against gajeel, but since Zoro can't sense ethernanos then he's unable to ever understand Gajeel's steel, thus his durability negation is completely useless and Gajeel ap stomps.

I agree

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The only sword that could cut gajeel should be enma but zoros AP is still only mountain level.

 

[LordGinSama]

I still don't see how The Breath of All Things is invalid here, Zoro just needs to listen to the breath of Gajeel's steel and there we go. Kenbunshoku can already see invisible shit, molecules and particles so Zoro should be able to sense the Ethernano.


But if this is a stomp I'll have it closed.

 

[SamanPatou]

I don't think it would work (or at the very least not so efficiently) because we don't have enough evidences that it can work with extremely durable stuff, nor that Zoro could just cut anything because he understands it, it's also very little explored in the series itself, otherwise Zoro would just dura neg everything and everyone regardless of their durability just by hearing their breath and because 99% of OP characters have flesh, which is included in the things he can cut.

Also, magic or not Gajeel's scales aren't common metal, it's clearly much more durable than normal steel, it being infused with magic is a plus. It would be like saiying Zoro can cut a Celestial because their armor is made of metal.

 

[LordGinSama]

I don't think it would work (or at the very least not so efficiently) because we don't have enough evidences that it can work with extremely durable stuff,

We already see it working on incredibly durable material, such as steel, extremely thick pieces of metal, Kuzan's ice, and possibly Diamond. (Zoro stated to Daz Bones that cutting Diamonds isn't something he finds impressive after beating him. Mihawl could have also cleaved through Jozu if he was intending to cut Diamonds as opposed to flesh and ice. We also see how effective it is, as he can cut cleany through solid stone with virtually no momentum.

nor that Zoro could just cut anything because he understands it, it's also very little explored in the series itself,

The rules are pretty much cut and clear, there isn't much to expand upon it other than "I just convey my will to my blade." and it allows Zoro to cut through the material (Without No Limit Fallacies ofc.)

otherwise Zoro would just dura neg everything and everyone regardless of their durability just by hearing their breath and because 99% of OP characters have flesh, which is included in the things he can cut.

Zoro doesn't need to utilize the durability negation aspects as he still has yet to utilize The Breath of All Things during the Time Skip aside from Fishman Island iirc. Also that doesn't even discredit his durability negation, Zoro doesn't need to utilize durability negation to cut flesh and bone as that's something he can already do. The Durability Negation is for harder material such as steel and such.

Also, magic or not Gajeel's scales aren't common metal, it's clearly much more durable than normal steel,

I don't recall Gajeel's steel being >> Normal steel in terms of it's density. Doesn't really matter tho since Mr 1's steel is >>> normal steel as well.

it being infused with magic is a plus. It would be like saiying Zoro can cut a Celestial because their armor is made of metal.

The Celestial's in Marvel who are like what, in the tier 4- 2 range? Yeah nobody in their right mind would argue that. It's also worth noting that Gajeel doesn't spam his iron scale mode as he's been stabbed and slashed multiple times in the series, something Zoro could capitalize on via his Prediction and Kenbunshoku Haki.

 

[PrinceofPein]

We already see it working on incredibly durable material, such as steel, extremely thick pieces of metal, Kuzan's ice, and possibly Diamond. (Zoro stated to Daz Bones that cutting Diamonds isn't something he finds impressive after beating him. Mihawl could have also cleaved through Jozu if he was intending to cut Diamonds as opposed to flesh and ice. We also see how effective it is, as he can cut cleany through solid stone with virtually no momentum.

This doesnt mean he will cut gajeel that can take hits from books of zeref demons or after time skip fight natsu evenly in a 100 years quest

The rules are pretty much cut and clear, there isn't much to expand upon it other than "I just convey my will to my blade." and it allows Zoro to cut through the material (Without No Limit Fallacies ofc.)

U saying it will cut gajeel steel something durable enough to tank country level attacks is kinda of an NLF.

Zoro doesn't need to utilize the durability negation aspects as he still has yet to utilize The Breath of All Things during the Time Skip aside from Fishman Island iirc. Also that doesn't even discredit his durability negation, Zoro doesn't need to utilize durability negation to cut flesh and bone as that's something he can already do. The Durability Negation is for harder material such as steel and such.

I'm sure zoro will give it his all before he can cut the likes of BM or kaido, including breath of all things

I don't recall Gajeel's steel being >> Normal steel in terms of it's density. Doesn't really matter tho since Mr 1's steel is >>> normal steel as well.

Uhhmmm I'm sure the steels are