8-B Tournament Semifinals: Solid Snake vs Optimus Prime (2007 DS Game)

[RandomGuy2345]

We have reached the semifinals of the 8-B tournament!

Solid Snake (@Popted2) vs Optimus Prime (2007 DS Game) (@Shadyboi0)

Speed will be equalized.

Snake has access to all weaponry.

Fight takes place in Dite.

Snake: 8 (Popted2, JustANormalLemon, Veloxt1r0kore, Armorchompy, GlaceonGamez471, Sero, BERRIES555, Knifeman29)

Prime:

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Alright, what's the AP Difference Bois?

 

[Armorchompy]

Snake is roughly x3 weaker but his weapons can hurt mechs that physically stomp him (not in one hit but he can't really scratch them) so he can definitely do some serious damage. He's got homing or remote-guided rockets, is an incredibly good shot and generally probably a better fighter, has the mobility advantage, can potentially temporarily disable Optimus or at least some of his machinery with Chaff Grenades, and that's without going into the incredible advantage that stealth has against a much bigger target.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Alright, what's the AP Difference Bois?

Snake is 23.55 tons, while Optimus stomps 34 tons, and upscales from 75 tons I believe.

Snake's AP becomes much higher with weapons, though.

 

[Popted2]

Snake is roughly x3 weaker but his weapons can hurt mechs that physically stomp him (not in one hit but he can't really scratch them) so he can definitely do some serious damage. He's got homing or remote-guided rockets, is an incredibly good shot and generally probably a better fighter, has the mobility advantage, can potentially temporarily disable Optimus or at least some of his machinery with Chaff Grenades, and that's without going into the incredible advantage that stealth has against a much bigger target.

Snake FRA

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Snake is roughly x3 weaker but his weapons can hurt mechs that physically stomp him (not in one hit but he can't really scratch them) so he can definitely do some serious damage. He's got homing or remote-guided rockets, is an incredibly good shot and generally probably a better fighter, has the mobility advantage, can potentially temporarily disable Optimus or at least some of his machinery with Chaff Grenades, and that's without going into the incredible advantage that stealth has against a much bigger target.

I wouldn't say Snake's the better fighter. Optimus is at least 1 million years old, and has thousands of years of knowledge and wisdom. Snake doesn't match that in the slightest.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Snake FRA

Too early for FRA trains.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So Snake has to rely on Stealth and Hax here to win since his actual AP literally isn't gonna do shit to Optimus at all.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I'm about to eat, so it might take me a bit to respond.

 

[Armorchompy]

I wouldn't say Snake's the better fighter. Optimus is at least 1 million years old, and has thousands of years of knowledge and wisdom. Snake doesn't match that in the slightest.

I don't think age itself can contrast the sheer technique that Snake employs

So Snake has to rely on Stealth and Hax here to win since his actual AP literally isn't gonna do shit to Optimus at all.

He can actually defend himself quite well in close quarters, as his CQC is grappling focused and he has the LS advantage by over 20 times.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Btw, literally everyone in the DS Games has Homing Attacks so that's nothing new.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, I don't think "that's nothing new" makes the attack any easier to dodge considering Snake can literally control its pattern at will as well as alter its speed as he likes. And obviously Snake has beaten one of the absolute best snipers in the world in her own field, despite her having the perfect camouflage for the occasion.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I don't think age itself can contrast the sheer technique that Snake employs

He can actually defend himself quite well in close quarters, as his CQC is grappling focused and he has the LS advantage by over 20 times.

OK, but that's Lifting Strength and not AP. He can't hurt Optimus and he can't pin him very effectively either thanks to the gargantuan Size Difference which will allow Optimus to possibly just fire his Missile Barrage into the ground to make some sort of AoE Attack, not to mention his actual AoE attack in the form of the Ground Pound.

 

[Popted2]

So Snake has to rely on Stealth and Hax here to win since his actual AP literally isn't gonna do shit to Optimus at all.

his physical, yeah but his weapons can cause serious damage to him

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I don't think age itself can contrast the sheer technique that Snake employs

He is this old and has beem fighting decepticons this hole time

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I mean, I don't think "that's nothing new" makes the attack any easier to dodge considering Snake can literally control its pattern at will as well as alter its speed as he likes. And obviously Snake has beaten one of the absolute best snipers in the world in her own field, despite her having the perfect camouflage for the occasion.

That's fine, I'm just saying that he has dealt with Homing Attacks before.

his physical, yeah but his weapons can cause serious damage to him

He literally can't hurt him with the sheer AP Gap. None of his 8-B Weaponry is high enough to bypass the sheer Scaling Chain of Optimus.

 

[Armorchompy]

OK, but that's Lifting Strength and not AP. He can't hurt Optimus

x3 means he can hurt him just fine, it's just not gonna be advantageous. But Snake's fought giant robots in the past, he knows not to challenge them physically.

and he can't pin him very effectively either thanks to the gargantuan Size Difference

He can easily slam him to the ground and retreat.

which will allow Optimus to possibly just fire his Missile Barrage into the ground to make some sort of AoE Attack not to mention his actual AoE attack in the form of the Ground Pound.

This is all implying Optimus gets close to Snake or can even find him. You know, the stealth game legend that can hide twenty meters in front of supersoldiers with enhanced senses without being noticed.

He literally can't hurt him with the sheer AP Gap. None of his 8-B Weaponry is high enough to bypass the sheer Scaling Chain of Optimus.

No? Snake can significantly damage robots that are >>> him with his weapons as well as one-shot those comparable to him. Optimus is what, > the 75 ton feat? That's far from a stomp gap, especially considering piercing damage.

 

[Armorchompy]

He is this old and has beem fighting decepticons this hole time

Aren't 99% of decepticons way weaker than him? Doesn't really take much technique if you can just tear them apart

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Aren't 99% of decepticons way weaker than him? Doesn't really take much technique if you can just tear them apart

Idk if they are in the DS game timeline

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

x3 means he can hurt him just fine, it's just not gonna be advantageous. But Snake's fought giant robots in the past, he knows not to challenge them physically.

He can easily slam him to the ground and retreat.

This is all implying Optimus gets close to Snake or can even find him. You know, the stealth game legend that can hide twenty meters in front of supersoldiers with enhanced senses without being noticed.

No? Snake can significantly damage robots that are >>> him with his weapons as well as one-shot those comparable to him. Optimus is what, > the 75 ton feat? That's far from a stomp gap, especially considering piercing damage.

Optimus is superior to Ironhide who is Equal to Base Starscream who One-Shot Blackout who can stomp groups of 34 Ton Drones casually. How the **** is Snake suppose to hurt him when the gap is that wide? All I'm seeing is that the Metal Gears (except for REX but then why isn't Snake 8-A with those Weapons?) his Weapons Scale to are just unquantifiably superior to him which still puts them as weaker than the Drones.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

He can easily slam him to the ground and retreat.

If It's enough to lift optimus

This is all implying Optimus gets close to Snake or can even find him. You know, the stealth game legend that can hide twenty meters in front of supersoldiers with enhanced senses without being noticed.

The fight would satart with both at eye range of one another... No?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Optimus is superior to Ironhide who is Equal to Base Starscream who One-Shot Blackout who can stomp groups of 34 Ton Drones casually. How the **** is Snake suppose to hurt him when the gap is that wide? All I'm seeing is that the Metal Gears (except for REX but then why is Snake 8-A with those Weapons?) his Weapons Scale to are just unquantifiably superior to him which still puts them as weaker than the Drones.

So, if I'm correct

Drones = 34 tons
Blackout = at least 34 × 7 tons (the minimun for a AP stomp here)
Starscream = (34 × 7) × 7 tons
Ironhead = Starscream
Optimus = above (34 × 7) × 7 tons = 1666

So at least abobe 1666 tons?

 

[Armorchompy]

Optimus is superior to Ironhide who is Equal to Base Starscream who One-Shot Blackout who can stomp groups of 34 Ton Drones casually. How the **** is Snake suppose to hurt him when the gap is that wide? All I'm seeing is that the Metal Gears (except for REX but then why is Snake 8-A with those Weapons?) his Weapons Scale to are just unquantifiably superior to him which still puts them as weaker than the Drones.

That's not really as straightforward as you're putting it. If you want me to get technical, Snake =< Big Boss (Who does the feat) <<< Shag < Peace Walker < Sahel < Metal Gear < Metal Gear D < REX > Snake's strongest weapons

As for why they're not 8-A... I dunno. Vamp is 8-A, and they scale to him. But I didn't make the profiles.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

So, if I'm correct

Drones = 34 tons
Blackout = at least 34 × 7 tons (the minimun for a AP stomp here)
Starscream = (34 × 7) × 7 tons
Ironhead = Starscream
Optimus = above (34 × 7) × 7 tons = 1666

So at least abobe 1666 tons?

That's not how scaling works, at all.

 

[Armorchompy]

So, if I'm correct

Drones = 34 tons
Blackout = at least 34 × 7 tons (the minimun for a AP stomp here)
Starscream = (34 × 7) × 7 tons
Ironhead = Starscream
Optimus = above (34 × 7) × 7 tons = 1666

So at least abobe 1666 tons?

We don't use the 7.5x multiplier for scaling.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

That's not really as straightforward as you're putting it. If you want me to get technical, Snake =< Big Boss (Who does the feat) <<< Shag < Peace Walker < Sahel < Metal Gear < Metal Gear D < REX > Snake's strongest weapons

As for why they're not 8-A... I dunno. Vamp is 8-A, and they scale to him. But I didn't make the profiles.

If they scale to Vamp then they should be disqualified from use.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

We don't use the 7.5x multiplier for scaling.

That's not how scaling works, at all.

Well, so just ignore It

 

[Armorchompy]

If they scale to Vamp then they should be disqualified from use.

I believe DDM has stated that at least projectile weapons should not scale to anything but their own feats. So at least the guns should be Unknown, but able to harm 8-A people through piercing.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

So Snake with his weapons massively upscales from 23.55 tons, and Optimus massively upscales from 34 tons, and upscales from 75 tons.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I believe DDM has stated that at least projectile weapons should not scale to anything but their own feats. So at least the guns should be Unknown, but able to harm 8-A people through piercing.

I feel like that's kind of cheating the AP Restriction rule for the Tournament since Vamp scales to Raiden who while Half Dead and missing an Arm could perform his 8-A Feat.

 

[Armorchompy]

I feel like that's kind of cheating the AP Restriction rule for the Tournament since Vamp scales to Raiden who while Half Dead and missing an Arm could perform his 8-A Feat.

I'm not saying they'd one-shot him or anything, just that they can harm him. Personally I don't agree with basically any of the ratings on Snake's profile, I'm just going with what's on them.

Speaking of that though, and I don't mean to accuse you of anything but Optimus is significantly stronger than 75 tons, while 82 is the ceiling? The tournament is meant to allow baseline people to compete yet we have Optimus scaling above people who one-shot 30+ tons.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm not saying they'd one-shot him or anything, just that they can harm him. Personally I don't agree with basically any of the ratings on Snake's profile, I'm just going with what's on them.

Speaking of that though, how's about that character who's significantly stronger than 75 tons, while 82 is the ceiling? The tournament is meant to allow baseline people to compete yet we have Optimus scaling above people who one-shot 30+ tons.

Because the person who can stomp 34 Tonners got One-Shot by a 75 Tonner who Optimus unquantifiably upscales from.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Because the person who can stomp 34 Tonners got One-Shot by a 75 Tonner who Optimus unquantifiably upscales from.

Still confusing af

 

[Armorchompy]

Because the person who can stomp 34 Tonners got One-Shot by a 75 Tonner who Optimus unquantifiably upscales from.

So you're arguing he doesn't one-shot baselines but that he can one-shot 23-tonners?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So you're arguing he doesn't one-shot baselines but that he can one-shot 23-tonners?

What? Of ******* course he can One-Shot Baseline 8-Bs if he can One-Shot someone unquantifiably above 34 Tons.

 

[Armorchompy]

But, the tournament was made to allow baseline people to compete AP-wise, which is why people above 82 tons can't partecipate. This has the same result.

Either way, I don't wanna force RandomGuy to redo like five matches again so I'm gonna stop, just saying it's a little sus.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I mean its already sus from the beginning

 

[RandomGuy2345]

But, the tournament was made to allow baseline people to compete AP-wise, which is why people above 82 tons can't partecipate. This has the same result.

Either way, I don't wanna force RandomGuy to redo like five matches again so I'm gonna stop, just saying it's a little sus.

I was a little suspicious on the Optimus' AP as well, but he's >75 tons by an unknown amount, so I guess he's okay?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Still can't get over the fact that if Optimus literally faced almost anyone else in the tournament other than the people he faced before, he would not make it past the 2nd round.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Still can't get over the fact that if Optimus literally faced almost anyone else in the tournament other than the people he faced before, he would not make it past the 2nd round.

Right? He lucked out pretty hard considering he's only got AP on his side and some minor Regen.