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8-B Tournament Round 1, Match 8 Johnny Test VS Kazane Aoba Grace

RandomGuy2345 said:
1. Okay. The hax that aren't used consistently in combat can still be used, though it will likely be used towards the end of the fight, and the hax probably won't be used to it's full potential. If their can't be used in the battle, what's the point of having the abilities in.their profiles?
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I mean, again if he never uses these abilities which would literally just be a free win button in his series, I don't think it's likely that he'll consistently use them when he's losing.

Also I mean, there's plenty of profiles with abilities that can't be used. Soon enough I'm gonna add a bunch of abilities to a character that literally doesn't know he has them. The dude's got sight-based madness hax and literally doesn't know how to use it lol
RandomGuy2345 said:
2. The regen just has bad justifications. It needs better justifications so it can make better sense.
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That I can believe, but if he is seen in a cast then the regen is unquestionably spotty.
RandomGuy2345 said:
3. Teleportation can still be used. There are many characters who have similar Teleportation to Johnny. But guess what? The teleportation was still used in the fight because it can still be used in combat.
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So you're saying he's gonna start spamming an ability that he's never used in combat before?
RandomGuy2345 said:
Any Toon character can use their gag-like abilities in combat if they want to.
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maybe, but they don't
JustANormalLemon said:
Sincerally, toon force should be re-write to be better usable in combat in the wiki... welll, let's go
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It's not treated in any specific way, what I'm arguing here isn't necessarily tied to toon force.
 
Armorchompy said:
I mean, again if he never uses these abilities which would literally just be a free win button in his series, I don't think it's likely that he'll consistently use them when he's losing.

Also I mean, there's plenty of profiles with abilities that can't be used. Soon enough I'm gonna add a bunch of abilities to a character that literally doesn't know he has them. The dude's got sight-based madness hax and literally doesn't know how to use it lol

That I can believe, but if he is seen in a cast then the regen is unquestionably spotty.

So you're saying he's gonna start spamming an ability that he's never used in combat before?

maybe, but they don't

It's not treated in any specific way, what I'm arguing here isn't necessarily tied to toon force.
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I'm in school right now, so I can't make a full on analysis now. I will respond later.
 
Instead of just debunking everyone's points, I'll just elaborate on the abilities Johnny has that are considered "not combat applicable" and make an explanation as to why they can be used for combat.

Intangibility: Both Johnny and Dukey phased through an invisible wall. This one is kinda left, but the reason why I believe Intangibility is combat applicable because Johnny and Dukey used it to avoid getting hit by invisible wall, as they were likely going to get knocked out if they did get hit by the wall due to how fast they were going. I feel like Johnny can use Intangibility to avoid attacks that are fatal.

Teleportation: This link. This won't help me with my point, so let me use a different link. This one. Dukey asks Johnny "Are we going where I we're going?" and they instantly teleport to the lab. The reason why I believe Teleportation can be used in combat is because in the second link I showed, Johnny had a motivation or need to do something. To elaborate, let's just say that Kazane has BFR. If she BFR's Johnny, Johnny will have the motivation and need to come back to where he originally was. So I believe Teleportation can be used here.

Causality Manipulation: Here. For context, Johnny and Dukey were in a book and they were at the end, meaning they were basically going to be essentially dead or stuck in that black abyss forever, so Johnny basically added more chapters to book. The book was on Porkbelly's history, so it's likely that Johnny can rewrite, add, or erase someone's history. This ability is combat applicable because Johnny will likely use it if he has nothing left to dish out or on the brink of death or defeat. Basically a last resort attack.

I believe that was all the abilities that were considered "not combat applicable."

All of these abilities, along with a 3.5x AP gap, Regen, Immortality, Keen sense of vision, Stealth Mastery, and Acrobatics should be more than enough to overwhelm Kazane. While Kazane's fighting style is unorthodox, and it will catch Johnny off guard initially, Johnny's Toon Force and other abilities makes him far more unpredictable, and he'll adapt to Kazane's fighting style quicker than Kazane will adapt Johnny's fighting style. Remember what I said earlier, one trick pony vs jack of many trades. The one trick pony more often than is going to have a harder time adapting to the jack of many trades' fighting style.

Johnny takes this Mid-diff.
 
I'm sorry, but giving context to those gags doesn't really change the fact that they are just that: gags. And when there's cases of Johnny losing battles and not resorting to them at all, I think it's unfair to assume he would here if losing, at least most of the time.
 
Armorchompy said:
I'm sorry, but giving context to those gags doesn't really change the fact that they are just that: gags. And when there's cases of Johnny losing battles and not resorting to them at all, I think it's unfair to assume he would here if losing, at least most of the time.
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Johnny doesn't resort to those hax because he uses his sisters equipment most of the time, which he is far more reliant on. If he's not using equipment, then he's in his Johnny X outfit, and his Johnny X outfit gives him a lot more versatility and range, so he'll be less reliant on the hax I mentioned above. Base Johnny, while still versatile, lacks range and is far more limited compared to when has his equipment, or when he's using Johnny X.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Johnny doesn't resort to those hax because he uses his sisters equipment most of the time, which he is far more reliant on. If he's not using equipment, then he's in his Johnny X outfit, and his Johnny X outfit gives him a lot more versatility and range, so he'll be less reliant on the hax I mentioned above. Base Johnny, while still versatile, lacks range and is far more limited compared to when has his equipment, or when he's using Johnny X.
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I would believe that if his sister's equipment was better, but it ain't better than Intangibility + Causality Hax, which is basically a free win against... anything that doesn't otherwise massively outhax Johnny. If he was clever enough to realize it's worth using when losing, he should also be clever enough to realize it's worth using over anything else he has.
 
Armorchompy said:
I would believe that if his sister's equipment was better, but it ain't better than Intangibility + Causality Hax, which is basically a free win against... anything that doesn't otherwise massively outhax Johnny. If he was clever enough to realize it's worth using when losing, he should also be clever enough to realize it's worth using over anything else he has.
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It doesn't matter if it's more powerful since Johnny is far more reliant on his equipment than his Intangibility + Causality hax. Let alone Johnny X. Johnny lacks range and he's less versatile without his equipment or when he's using Johnny X, so he's going have to rely more on his Intangibility + Causality hax.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
It doesn't matter if it's more powerful since Johnny is far more reliant on his equipment than his Intangibility + Causality hax. Let alone Johnny X. Johnny lacks range and he's less versatile without his equipment or when he's using Johnny X, so he's going have to rely more on his Intangibility + Causality hax.
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... If he realizes it's a good option at all, which I still don't believe. It's like you're telling me this guy prefers using a sword to a nuke, that's beyond preference and goes into "not something the character does in combat ever" considering the sheer difference in potency. I'm sorry but I don't think the reasoning behind Johnny's potential willingness to use his hax is strong enough. At least, generally speaking, I'm not denying he might use it 1/100 times but I seriously doubt it'd usually be his last-ditch move at all.

Plus if it is you literally made a mostly haxless tournament and put a character who can willingly become intangible and one-hit anyone else in the bracket through unavoidable hax
 
Armorchompy said:
... If he realizes it's a good option at all, which I still don't believe. It's like you're telling me this guy prefers using a sword to a nuke, that's beyond preference and goes into "not something the character does in combat ever" considering the sheer difference in potency. I'm sorry but I don't think the reasoning behind Johnny's potential willingness to use his hax is strong enough. At least, generally speaking, I'm not denying he might use it 1/100 times but I seriously doubt it'd usually be his last-ditch move at all.

Plus if it is you literally made a mostly haxless tournament and put a character who can willingly become intangible and one-hit anyone else in the bracket through unavoidable hax
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Johnny leads with Martial Arts and Toon Force in base. He'll use his more potent hax (Intangibility and Causality Manip) if he's towards the brink of death or defeat, or when he's got nothing else to throw at the opponent. AKA, a last resort attack. I've explained that already in my essay of an analysis. I said that Intangibility he'll likely use if the attack he's about to take is fatal. Though, due to the AP gap and other defensive hax, Johnny probably won't need Intangibility. I also said that Causality Manip he'll use if he's at the brink of death, defeat, or when he's got nothing else to throw at the opponent. A last resort attack. Need I remind you that in the link that I gave for Causality Manip, Johnny and Dukey were on the brink of death, or never coming back to the real world again. And he had none of his sisters equipment, which further supports my point of him being a bit more reliant on it. Though, it's still a last resort attack.
 
But due to his regen + toonforce, nobody in this bracket's ever gonna get the drop on him before he uses that hax, as you're arguing it.

Either way, the context of the situations where he uses those abilities is still completely different from a fight, even beyond them being all gags. We usually go by consistency here and I don't think your evidence is conclusive enough- I admit there's a chance he might use them but I do not think that chance is significant.

(For the record, it's not like you can sense if an attack is gonna be lethal, I'm not sure how he'd know that for sure)
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Btw Armor, ignoring everything we said about Johnny's hax, who do you think will win this battle?
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I'm not sure, that still has to be debated. Aoba has a significant skill edge, Johnny has possibly versatility and definitely AP and resilience. I'd honestly go incon lol. This is provided the hax is ignored, obviously if we end up going with him being willing to use it he would win.
 
Armorchompy said:
I'm not sure, that still has to be debated. Aoba has a significant skill edge, Johnny has possibly versatility and definitely AP and resilience. I'd honestly go incon lol. This is provided the hax is ignored, obviously if we end up going with him being willing to use it he would win.
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I still think you're underestimating Jhonny's skill... @RandomGuy2345 , can you get some clips of Jhonny fighting other martial arts users?
 
Armorchompy said:
But due to his regen + toonforce, nobody in this bracket's ever gonna get the drop on him before he uses that hax, as you're arguing it.

Either way, the context of the situations where he uses those abilities is still completely different from a fight, even beyond them being all gags. We usually go by consistency here and I don't think your evidence is conclusive enough- I admit there's a chance he might use them but I do not think that chance is significant.

(For the record, it's not like you can sense if an attack is gonna be lethal, I'm not sure how he'd know that for sure)
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1. I'm only using the Regen + Toon Force argument for this fight in particular. If Johnny moves on to the next round, he'll be facing Gene, and I believe Gene has more potent hax than Kazane. Don't take what I just legitimately, though. I'm not sure if Gene does have more potent hax than Kazane.

2. I'll ignore Intangibility, as Johnny will likely not need it to survive Aoba's attacks. Johnny and Dukey were literally never coming back to the real world again if Johnny didn't bust out that Causality Manip. Johnny used the Causality Manip when his life was on the line, so why wouldn't he use it in a fight where he's near the brink of death, defeat, or when he's got no other options left? And he has no access to equipment or Johnny X?

3. I agree with the point you made in parentheses.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
1. I'm only using the Regen + Toon Force argument for this fight in particular. If Johnny moves on to the next round, he'll be facing Gene, and I believe Gene has more potent hax than Kazane. Don't take what I just legitimately, though. I'm not sure if Gene does have more potent hax than Kazane.
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Gene is completely haxless, he's just an incredible fighter which is why I'm arguing against Johnny's hax here lol.
RandomGuy2345 said:
2. I'll ignore Intangibility, as Johnny will likely not need it to survive Aoba's attacks. Johnny and Dukey were literally never coming back to the real world again if Johnny didn't bust out that Causality Manip. Johnny used the Causality Manip when his life was on the line, so why wouldn't he use it in a fight where he's near the brink of death, defeat, or when he's got no other options left? And he has no access to equipment or Johnny X?
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I mean, still, even if the stakes were high, the context is different from a fight. Plus from what I understand the Aoba would go for a KO. But seriously, and I'm asking cause Idrk Johnny Test, I assume he's defeated some times throughout the series and like- he never uses any of these, right? Even if usually reliant on tech/X there would totally be a point in these fights where he realizes that's not enough- yet he never uses any of that.
 
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