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8-A T.A.B.S???? (Let me cook)

JustANormalLemon said:
Not to mention basically any troop in high enough quantities can kill the 8-B ones, to rhe point where giving them that rating when in large numbers eas a point to be debated on the GDT of the game
Click to expand...
This alone dismisses the possibility of it being an outlier
 
"Only boss enemies previously scaled to 8-B so this only upgrades them to 8-A"

"Literally came here because fodder was upgraded to 8-A

"Oh well actually they were 8-B anyways"

you guys didn't really collaborate on this one, did you

The problem with using an obvious outlier feat such as this, that furthermore the game makes clear was never intended to do damage to your units, is that it cannot make sense. Apply it unilaterally and it is a clear outlier for people like Hay Baler. Cut them out, and then it doesn't track to say that despite the glaring issues, it scales, just only to these guys even though all of them can "tank" it (read: still take no damage from the non-damaging effect).

The meteors are a stage prop. They shouldn't be used.

@LordGriffin1000 @Lonkitt I'd appreciate your reconsideration.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
"Only boss enemies previously scaled to 8-B so this only upgrades them to 8-A"

"Literally came here because fodder was upgraded to 8-A

"Oh well actually they were 8-B anyways"

you guys didn't really collaborate on this one, did you

The problem with using an obvious outlier feat such as this, that furthermore the game makes clear was never intended to do damage to your units, is that it cannot make sense. Apply it unilaterally and it is a clear outlier for people like Hay Baler. Cut them out, and then it doesn't track to say that despite the glaring issues, it scales, just only to these guys even though all of them can "tank" it (read: still take no damage from the non-damaging effect).

The meteors are a stage prop. They shouldn't be used.

@LordGriffin1000 @Lonkitt I'd appreciate your reconsideration.
Click to expand...

Please read the other arguments

there is clearly a lot of misscomunication here, let's go on reverse

1- Hay bellers AP and Dura was 9-B, their Hay especifically was 8-B from tanking balista bolts
2-As stated above, only troops that costed 2200 to above where giving the 8-B status at the time for the simple reasson TABS is hard to scale
3-More troops where going to be upgraded to 8-B eventually after the TABS supporting group had decided witch ones would fit
4-One of the things debated for the verse was alread a upgrade for every unitiy of at least beingh 8-B sinse with enough of any 9-B troop You can defeat basically any 8-B one
5-No, meteors aren't stage proprs, they are part of the "traps" section of the map builder, the meteors are the only trap off 2 that does no damage, and the other is made to do damage trough trowing the troops into the air so they die of fall damage
6-The meteors affect the troops, they have high knockback and can even push them to inside the ground

Now look at the 2 last points, You see the thing? the meteors can't be a outlier or a game mechanics when they directly go against the actuall game mechanics of "all traps do damage"

Take this from someone who is experienced on that verse

I may have been unable to explain correctly yesterday, I'm sorry I was tired, hope my explanation now makes sense
 
Mr._Bambu said:
"Only boss enemies previously scaled to 8-B so this only upgrades them to 8-A"

"Literally came here because fodder was upgraded to 8-A

"Oh well actually they were 8-B anyways"

you guys didn't really collaborate on this one, did you

The problem with using an obvious outlier feat such as this, that furthermore the game makes clear was never intended to do damage to your units, is that it cannot make sense. Apply it unilaterally and it is a clear outlier for people like Hay Baler. Cut them out, and then it doesn't track to say that despite the glaring issues, it scales, just only to these guys even though all of them can "tank" it (read: still take no damage from the non-damaging effect).

The meteors are a stage prop. They shouldn't be used.

@LordGriffin1000 @Lonkitt I'd appreciate your reconsideration.
Click to expand...
Well I'm not familiar with the verses mechanics but what makes it an outlier? They'd half to have been damaged by something weaker than the meteor calc for that to be considered, no? (This question is disregarding the meteor apparently doing no damage in general).

As for the game mechanic of the meteor, I can say that it specifically only causing knock back would be an issue but it seemingly applies force to knock them back so their is an impact. I guess I'd consider myself neutral on this point until your reply. Though I have some other threads I need to look at so I'll reply when able.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Well I'm not familiar with the verses mechanics but what makes it an outlier? They'd half to have been damaged by something weaker than the meteor calc for that to be considered, no? (This question is disregarding the meteor apparently doing no damage in general).

As for the game mechanic of the meteor, I can say that it specifically only causing knock back would be an issue but it seemingly applies force to knock them back so their is an impact. I guess I'd consider myself neutral on this point until your reply. Though I have some other threads I need to look at so I'll reply when able.
Click to expand...
Griffin, for them to have not been damaged by something weaker than the meteor calc, they would need to be immortal. The meteor does 0 damage. To take less damage, they'd need to be healed when struck.

JustANormalLemon said:
Please read the other arguments

there is clearly a lot of misscomunication here, let's go on reverse

1- Hay bellers AP and Dura was 9-B, their Hay especifically was 8-B from tanking balista bolts
2-As stated above, only troops that costed 2200 to above where giving the 8-B status at the time for the simple reasson TABS is hard to scale
3-More troops where going to be upgraded to 8-B eventually after the TABS supporting group had decided witch ones would fit
4-One of the things debated for the verse was alread a upgrade for every unitiy of at least beingh 8-B sinse with enough of any 9-B troop You can defeat basically any 8-B one
5-No, meteors aren't stage proprs, they are part of the "traps" section of the map builder, the meteors are the only trap off 2 that does no damage, and the other is made to do damage trough trowing the troops into the air so they die of fall damage
6-The meteors affect the troops, they have high knockback and can even push them to inside the ground

Now look at the 2 last points, You see the thing? the meteors can't be a outlier or a game mechanics when they directly go against the actuall game mechanics of "all traps do damage"

Take this from someone who is experienced on that verse

I may have been unable to explain correctly yesterday, I'm sorry I was tired, hope my explanation now makes sense
Click to expand...
I don't think there's miscommunication, I think you're interpreting it a specific way that goes against what makes sense. I don't particularly care who was and was not 8-B prior to this, nor does that interface with my concerns with this rampant upgrading you've been doing: if this feat were solely performed by these high-powered units, then it would be acceptable. As it is, we run into a problem of inconsistency for the lower-ends of who is supposedly scaling to this "feat".

You also seem to not understand what the argument of "game mechanics" entails. When someone says "this only works due to game mechanics, and is thus invalid", they argue that the way that x works can only function due to the game making lapses in consistency for the sake of making the game operational/fun/etc. Games can go against their own internal logic for the sake of maintaining the framework of a game. For example, what a character can do in a cutscene may be outright impossible in actual gameplay- destroying a building is a hard thing to represent even in a game like Overwatch where characters have, in fact, struck right through towering skyscrapers. This is the opposite end of game mechanics, where we can recognize the limits of the game and say "this doesn't mean we should downscale them"- instead, here, we have the game presenting a myriad of other, far lesser effects that can and do damage and yet the meteor doesn't, because it isn't designed to be a damaging effect- instead, the devs choose this as how they want to represent a trap that mechanically just knocks back a unit.

When I say game mechanics, this is what I mean. Not that the troops aren't being affected by it, but rather that they only survive out of circumstance and developer whim.

I realize you worked on applying this already, and for that I'm sorry. I didn't see the upgrade CRT until I happened upon a page afflicted by it and immediately came to rectify the situation. But I cannot accept 8-A based on a single feat for even one of the physically weakest entities in the game, particularly where the "feat" itself is entirely bunk.

Lou_change said:
I mean the fall that kills the fodder has less energy than the meteor that launches them up.
Click to expand...
More fuel for the fire of inconsistency. This meteor feat ought not be used.
 
After some more investigation there's... a lot of problems, with how this verse is scaled, currently. Supersonic+ characters for "dodging" attacks that seem to just actually be missing because the game is a little silly. The upgraded pages are still linking to 9-B calcs. Terminology is bouncing all over the place with the "At leasts" and "Likelies" such that it doesn't make any sense. No thought was given to matchup removals.

I think the only thing I don't hold issue with on the current profiles, aside from abilities, is Lifting Strength, but even that is applied to apparently weaker units with little care for whether that makes sense.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Griffin, for them to have not been damaged by something weaker than the meteor calc, they would need to be immortal. The meteor does 0 damage. To take less damage, they'd need to be healed when struck.


I don't think there's miscommunication, I think you're interpreting it a specific way that goes against what makes sense. I don't particularly care who was and was not 8-B prior to this, nor does that interface with my concerns with this rampant upgrading you've been doing: if this feat were solely performed by these high-powered units, then it would be acceptable. As it is, we run into a problem of inconsistency for the lower-ends of who is supposedly scaling to this "feat".

You also seem to not understand what the argument of "game mechanics" entails. When someone says "this only works due to game mechanics, and is thus invalid", they argue that the way that x works can only function due to the game making lapses in consistency for the sake of making the game operational/fun/etc. Games can go against their own internal logic for the sake of maintaining the framework of a game. For example, what a character can do in a cutscene may be outright impossible in actual gameplay- destroying a building is a hard thing to represent even in a game like Overwatch where characters have, in fact, struck right through towering skyscrapers. This is the opposite end of game mechanics, where we can recognize the limits of the game and say "this doesn't mean we should downscale them"- instead, here, we have the game presenting a myriad of other, far lesser effects that can and do damage and yet the meteor doesn't, because it isn't designed to be a damaging effect- instead, the devs choose this as how they want to represent a trap that mechanically just knocks back a unit.

When I say game mechanics, this is what I mean. Not that the troops aren't being affected by it, but rather that they only survive out of circumstance and developer whim.

I realize you worked on applying this already, and for that I'm sorry. I didn't see the upgrade CRT until I happened upon a page afflicted by it and immediately came to rectify the situation. But I cannot accept 8-A based on a single feat for even one of the physically weakest entities in the game, particularly where the "feat" itself is entirely bunk.


More fuel for the fire of inconsistency. This meteor feat ought not be used.
Click to expand...
I agree to disagree, It's okay, I will wait more impurlt of other staff to see what happens in the end

Now, lwt me ask, how about the 9-A explosion of the meteor, is that usable in Your opnion?
 
I take it that it, also, does no damage? If so, no, it is still a contrivance of game mechanics being bent for the sake of the effect working as it does.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
After some more investigation there's... a lot of problems, with how this verse is scaled, currently. Supersonic+ characters for "dodging" attacks that seem to just actually be missing because the game is a little silly. The upgraded pages are still linking to 9-B calcs. Terminology is bouncing all over the place with the "At leasts" and "Likelies" such that it doesn't make any sense. No thought was given to matchup removals.

I think the only thing I don't hold issue with on the current profiles, aside from abilities, is Lifting Strength, but even that is applied to apparently weaker units with little care for whether that makes sense.
Click to expand...
About the LS, the feat comes from the robbers who literaly are just 2 peasantsbank mechanically, the chepest troop in the game

About 9-B calc atill linked, I was stoped in the middle of appling the changes, I was going to still revise them after finishing upgrading

About the at least and likely, It can simply be rewriten, the verse has been passed by a lot of inconsistent writers hands, makig their profiles... complicated

About marchup removal... ? What You mean no trough was given? Could You explain better, I only removed battles that would become AP stomps as far as I'm Aware

About speed, the dodge is a complet body dive from the painter who actually has a hability of jumping oit of the way of projectiles, but If It makes You more safe I have to say I had plans to make a overall remake of ever calc + speed calc for every character in the verse soon, this kinda came before that and all

I don't mind making all changes needed but if You really want that to happen i recomend going to the TABS discussion thread
 
JustANormalLemon said:
About the LS, the feat comes from the robbers who literaly are just 2 peasantsbank mechanically, the chepest troop in the game

About 9-B calc atill linked, I was stoped in the middle of appling the changes, I was going to still revise them after finishing upgrading

About the at least and likely, It can simply be rewriten, the verse has been passed by a lot of inconsistent writers hands, makig their profiles... complicated

About marchup removal... ? What You mean no trough was given? Could You explain better, I only removed battles that would become AP stomps as far as I'm Aware

About speed, the dodge is a complet body dive from the painter who actually has a hability of jumping oit of the way of projectiles, but If It makes You more safe I have to say I had plans to make a overall remake of ever calc + speed calc for every character in the verse soon, this kinda came before that and all

I don't mind making all changes needed but if You really want that to happen i recomend going to the TABS discussion thread
Click to expand...
See, the robber feat is the closest to being usable, that I'll grant you, but the damage caused by it implies to me that there's something more to them. Still, being a wobbler alone doesn't mean the feat should qualify, as it seems like practically all units in the game are wobblers, irrespective of in-verse hierarchies of power.

Regarding leaving the 9-B calcs... please don't, in your future editing sprees. Be very careful. It's easier to forget and leave imperfect edits that need to be fixed by other staff members if you do.

You left now 8-A pages with matchups against 9-B enemies.

If better speed revisions are en route then that's good.

Let me be clear and say that I don't even particularly like TABS, it's just that this CRT has led to a great deal of digging and I suppose it's going to be my mess to fix.
 
DaReaperMan said:
"This verse has came under scrutiny so it's ruined!"

Jesus christ I WISH more of my verses had someone else looking over my shoulder to catch when I **** up!
Click to expand...
I don’t actually care that much about this verse (in a scaling context)
I just got reminded of all the times an OPM upgr got shot down and a nerve was struck + I’m racist against staff members fr
 
Why couldn’t it be possible that they just no sell the attack or hell they just tanked it? The no damage thing doesn’t actually seem like that big of a deal when you think about it like that. And the falling damage point isn't actually that damning when you consider that fall damage effects basically every unit the exact same amount no matter the durability so if anything that seems like a better example of game mechanics
 
King_Dom470 said:
Why couldn’t it be possible that they just no sell the attack? And the falling damage point isn't actually that damning when you consider that fall damage effects basically every unit the exact same amount no matter the durability so if anything that seems like a better example of game mechanics
Click to expand...
Literally every other far weaker effect in the game deals damage, this deals none. Yes, the rest of the game also operates on game mechanics, but not to the extent of being nonsensical: everything can damage each other, the wiki has a completely separate stance on chip damage.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Literally every other far weaker effect in the game deals damage, this deals none. Yes, the rest of the game also operates on game mechanics, but not to the extent of being nonsensical: everything can damage each other, the wiki has a completely separate stance on chip damage.
Click to expand...
Yeah they were all gonna be 8-B anyways so that doesn’t matter so every "Far weaker effect" would just be 8-A now anyways. And you could just argue that they are so much stronger than the meteor that it does no noticeable damage to them (Which was what I was arguing for in the first place). I honestly don't really see the problem here by all definitely the explosion acts like an explosion the only problem being that they tank the damage very easily which doesn’t seem like a problem
 
They aren't "so much stronger" than the meteor. The meteor has no damage component. C'mon, man. I don't want this to be indicative of what you're going to argue during your time on the wiki.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
They aren't "so much stronger" than the meteor. The meteor has no damage component. C'mon, man. I don't want this to be indicative of what you're going to argue during your time on the wiki.
Click to expand...
In game theres no damage component sure. But why would game files be used for scaling? Theres an explosion and they survived it whether or not it was scripted by the developers to actually do damage doesn’t seem super relevant. Otherwise that feat of Arthur Morgan being shot in the chest during a cutscene shouldn’t be used since it wasn’t scripted to do damage
 
King_Dom470 said:
In game theres no damage component sure. But why would game files be used for scaling? Theres an explosion and they survived it whether or not it was scripted by the developers to actually do damage doesn’t seem super relevant. Otherwise that feat of Arthur Morgan being shot in the chest during a cutscene shouldn’t be used since it wasn’t scripted to do damage
Click to expand...
For your argument to work, we have to say that in no contexts would game mechanics ever matter. "yeah, sure, Master Chief kills thousands of grunts, but really every grunt can sometimes land a hit on him, so tbh all grunts are directly comparable to Master Chief, and everyone else only upscales!"

Arthur Morgan is damaged when he is shot in a cutscene lol. You are having a fundamental misunderstanding of what the entire discussion is about.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
For your argument to work, we have to say that in no contexts would game mechanics ever matter. "yeah, sure, Master Chief kills thousands of grunts, but really every grunt can sometimes land a hit on him, so tbh all grunts are directly comparable to Master Chief, and everyone else only upscales!"
Click to expand...
Completely different games and situations since this whole verse is just characters downscaling from one another (Dark peasant downscales from super peasant, Ice giant downscales from Dark Peasant, Thor downscales from Ice giant all the way down to peasants)
Mr._Bambu said:
Arthur Morgan is damaged when he is shot in a cutscene lol. You are having a fundamental misunderstanding of what the entire discussion is about.
Click to expand...
As far as I remember your health remains the same. But even if it doesn’t the game is scripted so that you survive so that should be unusable based on what you said "The meteor has no damage component" So my argument still stands just because it's not scripted to kill you/do damage shouldn’t mean its unusable
 
Also just checked and I was 100% right Arthur's health stays exactly the same even after being shot with a shotgun (Compare Here and Here)
 
Mr._Bambu said:
See, the robber feat is the closest to being usable, that I'll grant you, but the damage caused by it implies to me that there's something more to them. Still, being a wobbler alone doesn't mean the feat should qualify, as it seems like practically all units in the game are wobblers, irrespective of in-verse hierarchies of power.

Regarding leaving the 9-B calcs... please don't, in your future editing sprees. Be very careful. It's easier to forget and leave imperfect edits that need to be fixed by other staff members if you do.

You left now 8-A pages with matchups against 9-B enemies.

If better speed revisions are en route then that's good.

Let me be clear and say that I don't even particularly like TABS, it's just that this CRT has led to a great deal of digging and I suppose it's going to be my mess to fix.
Click to expand...
1- what? Uhum, bank rober cost around 800 but this all comes fro, the safe they carry and trow as they by them selfs are basic peasants, troops that coat 30 (the lowest possible) so their LS do scale to everyone

2 and 3- I was going to make revisions, I just didn't beacuse I was stoped in the middle of the changes(also, If You could, can you just revert the 8-A changes I made? Sinse this looks like will need at least one more dtaff suport to be added sinse You disagree)

4-They are planed and will be made

5- that happen lol, thanks for joining the TABS suporting group :V
 
1: I'm aware, which is why I say that the feat is the closest thing to being usable, there is a legitimate discussion to be had there and I'm personally on the fence about it. The problem with the line of reasoning of "well they're just peasants if you strip away their stuff" is that the stuff used in this game is often what defines the unit at all. Still, I'll drop this point for now.

2-3: I'd need a list of all the pages changed, preferably, but yes.

5: I'll be clear again and say that I'm not against the verse either, I like it enough from a distance.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
1: I'm aware, which is why I say that the feat is the closest thing to being usable, there is a legitimate discussion to be had there and I'm personally on the fence about it. The problem with the line of reasoning of "well they're just peasants if you strip away their stuff" is that the stuff used in this game is often what defines the unit at all. Still, I'll drop this point for now.

2-3: I'd need a list of all the pages changed, preferably, but yes.

5: I'll be clear again and say that I'm not against the verse either, I like it enough from a distance.
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Totally Accurate Battle Simulator

For detailed information about this series, visit the TOTALLY ACCURATE BATTLE SIMULATOR WIKI. Totally Accurate Battle Simulator (Or TABS), is a singleplayer comedy physics based tactics game released in early access in November 2016. Since this release the game followed multiple updates and...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Start at clubber and finish at ninja
 
JustANormalLemon said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Totally Accurate Battle Simulator

For detailed information about this series, visit the TOTALLY ACCURATE BATTLE SIMULATOR WIKI. Totally Accurate Battle Simulator (Or TABS), is a singleplayer comedy physics based tactics game released in early access in November 2016. Since this release the game followed multiple updates and...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Start at clubber and finish at ninja
Click to expand...
You... appear to have gone well past that, though.
 
Well if there’s one thing that can be helped
it’s that point brought up before about being able to use the unit creator stats
if we can’t use the meteor feat then we can still upgrade this verse the more acceptable way
 
ZillertheBucko said:
Well if there’s one thing that can be helped
it’s that point brought up before about being able to use the unit creator stats
if we can’t use the meteor feat then we can still upgrade this verse the more acceptable way
Click to expand...
Game stats are still a fairly questionable methodology and are generally not accepted without a reason to do so.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Game stats are still a fairly questionable methodology and are generally not accepted without a reason to do so.
Click to expand...
TABS scaling is 99% video game 1% story outside of the game's mechanics
this is not a situation where you can just say "video game doesn't count tho" when every powerscaling interaction in it happens when things are happening in gameplay
unless you're now gonna be that one productive fellow who decides "well there's no statement or canon feat of a dark peasant one shotting a bard, so we're gonna have to put him at unknown"
I'm fairly certain that it's a common idea on vsb that the more gameplay based a series' scaling is, the more game mechanics must be used for coherent scaling.
I literally do not see the point in having a verse where characters who are hundreds of times stronger than others just end up scaling to the exact same thing when there is such an easy solution to it.
If there's not going to be a diversity of feats then maybe go with the extremely obvious way of scaling the top tiers, rather than just sticking to the useless "indexing" of just saying at least x likely far higher 🗿
 
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