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7-C Monsters and Men Tournament. Round 2 Match 4. Kamen Rider Faiz vs Great Shinobi Owl

so Faiz has the ap advantage, okay

Owl has some pretty great movements, and overall seems to have the experience and possibly the skill advantage


how do they fight these 2? what are the arguments for them?
 
Popted2 said:
so Faiz has the ap advantage, okay

Owl has some pretty great movements, and overall seems to have the experience and possibly the skill advantage

how do they fight these 2? what are the arguments for them?
Click to expand...
Faiz generally start with close combat fist fight, but if the opponent also using swords like Owl, I can see him will start with using the Faiz Edge (his lightsaber) to fight Owl.
From what I saw from other thread, Owl's general combat strategy revolve around his stealth mastery, smoke bomb and poisonous gas. But Faiz's armor completely null all of these strategies

  • Ultimate Finder (アルティメットファインダー, Arutimetto Faindā) - The visor. It has an ultra-sensitive camera that converts images into electrical signals and conveys them to he wearer. It also has a scope function that allows daylight vision even in the darkness, and an X-ray camera function that allows seeing through objects.
  • Extreme Nose (エクストリームノーズ, Ekusutorīmu Nōzu) - An olfactory organ that artificially creates a sense of smell one million times more potent that humans'. While its sensitivity can be freely adjusted, it typically has the same olfactory powers as a dog.
  • Pin Falls Sonar (ピンフォールズソナー, Pin Fōruzu Sonā) - Extremely sensitive audio devices that can hear a needle fall from 5km away. The sensitivity can be freely changed according to the wearer's will.
  • Extreme Regulator (エクストリームレギュレーター, Ekusutorīmu Regyurētā) - The mouthpiece. It is an oxygen supply device for the wearer. It enables activities in harsh environment where there is extremely little oxygen such as water or toxic gases.
And fighting close combat with Faiz isnt recommended, as that would be asking for an Exceed Charge straight to your face (all of his Exceed Charge attacks can deconstructs the opponents)

 
Peppersalt43 said:
Wait his fists do what?! Why didn't you tell me that this is a thing, this disqualifies him from the tourney
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His normal attacks are just normal punches. Only the exceed charges (which are the final attacks) can deconstructs the opponent.

Deconstructing opponent with normal punches is in Faiz's last key. This key only have regular normal attacks.
 
MagiSinbad said:
His normal attacks are just normal punches. Only the exceed charges (which are the final attacks) can deconstructs the opponent.
Click to expand...
You explained that previously as if it was something he'd pull on the go whenever his enemy is in range

Also the problem with enhanced senses is that certain things like flashbangs can cause pain to them and Owl does have a habit of using very loud and bright firecrackers that can stun enemies in range. And I don't get how extreme nose helps, it just makes the smoke smell much worse
 
Owl's modus operandi would probably be regular sword fights but he likely would disengage if things get too hot. He has plenty tools to keep his distance, and he isn't too shabby himself in endurance and durability, given he could still stand after many fatal blows to vital areas like the throat and chest. Being a shinobi, Owl probably would benefit from the verticality of the urban layout of the city to escape and recuperate. After all, fear is absolute, there is no shame in running away.
 
Peppersalt43 said:
You explained that previously as if it was something he'd pull on the go whenever his enemy is in range
Click to expand...
it's my fault for worded it wrong. But yeah, he regularly uses his normal attacks first to check the opponent's power and fighting patterns, and then finish them with Exceed Charge attacks (Since these attacks consume alot of Photon Bloods, which are primary power source of Faiz's armor)
 
Also Owl still can bail himself out with his spirit owl in case things go hairy. Owl can likely deflect his saber given he could deflect many things that he shouldn't logically deflect like Sekiro's fire and Divine Confetti sword. As for Owl, his biggest advantage her would definitely be the Mortal Blade again given its ability to negate durability. And if he finds himself losing, he can of course, distance himself with his spirit owl or put poison in between him and his opponent.

His other stealth tricks likely won't work knowing what works above, but firecrackers might based on Pepper's reasoning, but Owl definitely is the kind of guy who fights smart and probably would instead try poking at him from a distance should he feel like he's at a disadvantage in a straight-up brawl. His stealth effectiveness honestly kind of varies given he managed to stealth kill (a rusty) Sekiro at one point, so that option is up in the air depending on how much you want to downplay it or wank it.

Overall though, this will definitely be a prolonged fight.
 
Naitodesu said:
Owl can likely deflect his saber given he could deflect many things that he shouldn't logically deflect like Sekiro's fire and Divine Confetti sword.
Click to expand...
Well, as you can see in the above video where Faiz's FaizEdge got deflected by Psyga when they are going to Exceed Charge at each other, Faiz can still smoothly turn the blade of FaizEdge to strike directly at Psyga. So he should be able to do the same once he realize his Exceed Charge is being deflected.
Also does Sekiro's fire and Divine Confetti sword has Deconstruction ? Because that is what deadly about Exceed Charge, if Owl has deflected something like that then It's no doubt that he can deflect FaizEdge.

That's all I can argue for Faiz, gotta leave the rest for other supporters.
 
His sword can, and I don’t think he needs to actually use his exceed charge for that. The medium mode of the Faiz Edge could incinerate the opponents of Faiz. He likely starts off with putting the Faiz Edge at low since he doesn’t actually kill the Orphnochs outright in his show, but once Owl starts causing some trouble, it’s straight into its higher modes
 
Faiz's deconstruction are done via heat manipulation, good resistance can pretty much null it. However, Faiz can literally pulverized a person which mean the heat would be around 1000 degrees Celsius, aka the temperature needed for burning entire human body to ashes. At least that's what i can remember because i end up drop Faiz halfway.
 
Faiz Edge has 4 modes: Low, Medium, High, and Ultimate

I'm guessing Faiz used Ultimate Mode against Psyga in that fight because Psyga is 2x stronger than Faiz and has resistance to heat and deconstruction. Fair to say that Faiz when using Ultimate Mode can stomp a 2x AP Gap with one layer of heat and deconstruction. He uses this in desperate situations though. He was fighting a guy that was stronger than him, more skilled than him and if he loses, humanity goes extinct.

Enhanced Senses can be turned off to avoid loud sounds so that won't work. Smoke gets turned into oxygen supply with Faiz's mouth piece.

If Faiz needs to fight long range, he'll go for his gun which shoots lasers or he can summon Autovaijin which is a Robot that can fly while spraying with a machine gun.
 
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Peppersalt43 said:
And I don't get how extreme nose helps, it just makes the smoke smell much worse
Click to expand...
Not quite. The Full Metal Lung's going negate the effects of the smoke should it be used.

Owl seems to have favourable swordsmanship here, though the Faiz Edge's heat is going to aid Takumi a lot based off the heat alone. I can't image Owl's sword would put up well against. I'd also like to note that Faiz isn't just 21 Kilotons, he actually upscales when you take a look at the description behind his durability. Owl's surprisingly nimble for his age and size, though Faiz and his fellow Riders tend to make some much greater bounds so I don't believe mobility will become a problem. The firecrackers and smoke are good combos, but the smoke can be seen through and based on Owl's usage of them, they don't really seem like they'd blind Takumi

Remembering the fact that Faiz can call in the Autovaijin leads me to think this fight may be a bit too decisive in Takumi's favour
 
Owl still has his owl that makes him go intangible or disappear during attack openings and the Mortal Blade can't be deflected without damage given only holy weapons could properly negate the damage. Also remember that Owl can also use his Owl for attacking Faze so they can fight in unison. If the Faze Edge can't be deflected then Owl won't be stupid enough to keep doing a straight confrontation against them and stick to rat tactics with Shuriken or sneaking up with his Owl.

Owl still has the ultimate tactic of just not engaging when it's favorable for him and using his owl to bail him out.
 
Oh, so he has an attack partner too. Alright, maybe it's not too stompy then.

I'll be voting Faiz here for the reasons in my post above, along with how the Autovaijin's projectiles are a lot more daunting here compared to the owl (the bird, not the character). Enhanced senses aren't really negated by the tactics here, so stealth's a little out of the picture. Owl's evasive tactics and sword mastery avoid this from being a quicker battle, but Faiz's weaponry, abilities, range, and significant AP advantage are favourable here.
 
The Owl is intangible, Sekiro couldn't interact with it or hurt given he was able to interact with elementally intangible things, as well as Ghosts and Spirits
 
Owl isn't a stranger to fighting multiple opponents given he is comparable to the likes of Isshin, who fought multiple Shinobi at once. Owl can still bail with his phantom owl, and Owl has superior lifting strength to out grapple Faiz and deal a deathblow. Faiz Edge would be a problem, but I still believe close quarters are in Owl's favor given his skill and lifting strength, as well as inclination to use tactics to get behind his opponents.

Again, Owl managed to sneak up on an early-game Sekiro, who had see in the dark, sense incoming attacks, and also hear incredibly well from a distance at that point. It took a more experienced Sekiro to catch up to his tricks, so I'm not saying Owl's stealth would 100% work but I wouldn't count it out either because of Faiz's Enhanced Senses.
 
well, how good is Owl's reaction speed compares to his combat speed ? Speed is equalized and none of characters in Faiz's series was able to reacts or dodges Auto Vajin's bullets.

And I dont think Owl's stealth can works at all since wherever he hides, Faiz can see him through X-ray visions, hearing his smallest movement, and locates Owl's location through his odors.
 
I mean, it's not reflected in his profile but he can theoretically react to One Mind the same way Shura Sekiro or Isshin could or at least is comparable with a Sekiro who can react to One Mind. One Mind is a technique that allows the user to slash so fast that from their perspective the enemy's movement is invisible and the slashes nearly come at once.

The speed buff is not quantified granted, but I would think Owl has the ability to deal with attacks much faster than him (within reason obviously)
 
I mean, Owl has Class G lifting strength doesn't he? Wouldn't he need proof of affecting enemies of that strength? Even then, his phantom owl can still bail him out given he can disappear without needing to do excessive movement.
 
Naitodesu said:
Owl isn't a stranger to fighting multiple opponents given he is comparable to the likes of Isshin, who fought multiple Shinobi at once. Owl can still bail with his phantom owl, and Owl has superior lifting strength to out grapple Faiz and deal a deathblow. Faiz Edge would be a problem, but I still believe close quarters are in Owl's favor given his skill and lifting strength, as well as inclination to use tactics to get behind his opponents.

Again, Owl managed to sneak up on an early-game Sekiro, who had see in the dark, sense incoming attacks, and also hear incredibly well from a distance at that point. It took a more experienced Sekiro to catch up to his tricks, so I'm not saying Owl's stealth would 100% work but I wouldn't count it out either because of Faiz's Enhanced Senses.
Click to expand...
Faiz has a way to get out if being grappled, his smaller build mean he would able to slip Faiz phone/sword into his hand given how convenient his equipment are placed, doing this are quite easy. But if Owl were to sneaking up him or grabbing him then Autovajin got him covered, in fact Owl would have harder time facing against Faiz and Autovajin snipping him at the same time.

Faiz is not lacking in skills department either. On his first transformation, he was able to use all these tools like a pro despite not having prior training and this happened everytime he got new toys weapons. He was capable of matching Kaixa who is a champion in fencing and trained himself to fight Orphnoch force in years. In alternate timeline where Orphnochs ruled the world, he defeated Psyga who are worthy enough among all Orphnochs to given the Psyga belt.
 
I mean, Owl himself is a master shinobi and is comparable to Sekiro who not only singlehandedly learned but mastered three/four martial arts schools within an extremely short span of time (and was able to keep up with this Sekiro hopped up on Ashina/Senpou/Shinobi/Prosthetic skills), as well as Isshin who spent his entire life pursuing excellence and strength and founded his own martial arts practice.

Owl would have trouble trying to nail him down with two opponents, but again, he has experience with this. He still has the ultimate bail-out of merely not engaging by escaping with his phantom Owl, and also being able to attack from above, behind and dealing the deathblow. The Mortal Blade as well can hit multiple opponents with Mortal Draw and severely damage Faiz and his bike over time.
 
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Naitodesu said:
I mean, Owl himself is a master shinobi and is comparable to Sekiro who not only singlehandedly learned but mastered three/four martial arts schools within an extremely short span of time (and was able to keep up with this Sekiro hopped up on Ashina/Senpou/Shinobi/Prosthetic skills), as well as Isshin who spent his entire life pursuing excellence and strength and founded his own martial arts practice.

Owl would have trouble trying to nail him down with two opponents, but again, he has experience with this. He still has the ultimate bail-out of merely not engaging by escaping with his phantom Owl, and also being able to attack from above, behind and dealing the deathblow. The Mortal Blade as well can hit multiple opponents with Mortal Draw and severely damage Faiz and his bike over time.
Click to expand...
In a world where pretty much everybody can fight, Psyga were considered to be worthy enough to transform so it's not a stretch to say he's one of the best in the world. However Faiz wincon isn't rely entirely on his skills, unlike Wolf.

Autovajin basically can help him in most situations like i said above, and Faiz just need one Exceed Charge slashes to reduce him to ashes. Owl tactics and trick is difficult but not something can't be figured out, especially when Faiz only need one attack to finishes the fight.

A deathblow is hard to perform on Faiz because his entire suit is made from Solmetal which even a small amount can tank 21 kilojoules unscratched. Even harder when he got air support from Autovajin who firing machine gun at Owl continuously. Mortal Blade damaging him and his bike over time would work if he don't get sniped by the robot and somehow manage to avoid Faiz Edge for entire fight, which is very unlikely because there ain't a moment where both would stop locking their eyes on him.
 
Wolf's wincon against Owl wasn't entirely on skills either, he was crazy versatile with a combination of prosthetic tools and martial arts and Owl still gave him trouble. What's up with Faiz's sword one-shotting, I didn't know that was a thing? This isn't a remotely fair fight for Owl if Faiz can just do that right off the bat? I thought most of his problematic kit had been restricted to make this a fairer given he basically just addresses all of Owl's attacks and can one-shot him in return.

Also the Mortal Blade deathblow is very much possible given Sekiro could do it, and it could pierce enemies who themselves were otherwise impervious to regular deathblows.
 
Faiz somehow has an answer to everything Owl can do including a one-shot deconstruction move that he can pull at any point of the match that isn't the start
 
Faiz has answered to most of Owl stuff. And from what I've seen from Owl fight in the game his pet owl, while can be troublesome due to intangibility and whatnot doesn't seem to apply as much pressure as something like AutoVajin who just constantly spray and pray onto the crowds. People from Sekiro can parried a lot of ***** and I mean LOTS of ***** but the overwhelming firepower from the pair doesn't give me much confidence in Owl abilities to deflect through the barrage.

And as people said above Owl equipments are either soft or hard negs by most of the stuff in Faiz's suit. Combined this with a good chunk of AP scale above Owl, I think the old shinobi get outgunned by the new era of technology.
 
Naitodesu said:
Wolf's wincon against Owl wasn't entirely on skills either, he was crazy versatile with a combination of prosthetic tools and martial arts and Owl still gave him trouble. What's up with Faiz's sword one-shotting, I didn't know that was a thing? This isn't a remotely fair fight for Owl if Faiz can just do that right off the bat? I thought most of his problematic kit had been restricted to make this a fairer given he basically just addresses all of Owl's attacks and can one-shot him in return.

Also the Mortal Blade deathblow is very much possible given Sekiro could do it, and it could pierce enemies who themselves were otherwise impervious to regular deathblows.
Click to expand...
Except Wolf don't have a robot that firing machine gun to support him nor a sword that can pulverized Owl but i won't denied that Owl is better than Faiz in swordmanship.

Technically Faiz still need to hit Owl to activate Exceed Charge so it's not a stomp, Owl tactics are not to be underrestimated and Faiz would have to adapt fast. This is the first time Faiz has been used in vs thread so the only thing are restricted is Axel Form which give him massively speed amp.
 
Veloxt1r0kore said:
To be fair, most of the characters in Sekiro are mad skilled, so Auto Vajin isn't going to be that much of a problem for Owl
Click to expand...
The thing is: speed is equalized, Auto Vajin has machine gun that rapidly fires barrack of bullets that can speedblizt characters of Faiz the same way a normal gun would speedblizt us.
I can see Owl can deflect one and two bullets, but what about 96 bullets per second ?

To make the matter worst for Owl, he is in AP disadvantage here, it's 16 kiloton vs 21 kiloton. A small amount of Solmetal, which Faiz's armor and Auto Vaijin is made of, can a tank 21 kiloton explosion without a scratch, while Auto Vajin's machine gun can deals great damages to characters that upscale from Solmetal's durability.
 
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I know, but we can't say that Owl would deflect forever, right? He can just run and do what Shinobi always do (from using smokescreen and firecrackers for the stealth and escape)
 
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