5-B Madara and Kaguya

[TheFinalOrder]

Ok, so, this is very simple. Madara and Kaguya are 5-B with Infinite Tsukiyomi, not ETSB.

• The Databook states that the ETSB uses Chakra gained from Infinite Tsukiyomi to be at that level.

• Chakra control in Naruto dictates that Kaguya/Madara would be able to use Infinite Tsukiyomi Chakra to amplify other jutsu as well.

Thus, Kaguya isn't factually limited to 5-B with ETSB only, she's 5-B with Infinite Tsukiyomi chakra. Madara would be Possibly 5-B with IT scaling from Kaguya.

 

[Dark649]

No. Infinite Tsukuyomi is hax it doesn't warrant a tier only planetary range, the World of Tree jutsu is a Low 5-B one at best.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Chakra =/= AP IIRCL But i'll wait on what others say about this.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I don't agree with this.

Just because they gain that much chakra doesn't mean they can bolster ever move they have or themselves by that much.

Hell Jutsu's in Naruto have rankings in the Databooks. If any attack could be as strong as another just by putting Chakra into it then the Rasengan and Chidori wouldn't be different ranks.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

No. Infinite Tsukuyomi is hax it doesn't warrant a tier only planetary range, the World of Tree jutsu is a Low 5-B one at best.

Yes, IT is hax. It's one that places people into a genjutsu and allows the user to DRAW UPON THEIR CHAKRA AT WILL.

ETSB is a Jutsu that Kaguya uses by USING THE CHAKRA OF THOSE TRAPPED IN INFINITE TSUKIYOMI.

Seriously, what is so hard to understand about this.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I don't agree with this.
Just because they gain that much chakra doesn't mean they can bolster ever move they have or themselves by that much.

Hell Jutsu's in Naruto have rankings in the Databooks. If any attack could be as strong as another just by putting Chakra into it then the Rasengan and Chidori wouldn't be different ranks.

Except, the laws of Naruto and feats say otherwise.

 

[Dark649]

Having the energy of many fodders Ôëá having 5-B stats.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@TheFinalOrder

They also go against what you're suggesting as well.

 

[Theglassman12]

I disagree for the reasons stated above.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@TheFinalOrder
They also go against what you're suggesting as well.

I'm not saying they can power "themselves" with the chakra. That much is factual, they can only tolerate so much before their bodies begin to want to explode, but that isn't the same for jutsu. Also, you're operating under a misconception.

Jutsu ranks have very little to do with the power of a jutsu, its the skill level required to use such a jutsu. Even since part 1, amplifying jutsu to be stronger has been a staple of the series. Nothing contradicts this.

 

[Omimi]

Chakra gained from Infinite Tsukiyomi = ETSB = 3000 to 10000 ninja chakra = 1/3 half kurama ckakra

she only absorb chakra from ninja and there are probably 3000 to 10000 ninja was under nfinite Tsukiyomi and half kurama can buff all of them atlest 3x time

prime kaguya>> kaguya that fought sasuke and naruto cuz she does not have half kurama

point is ETSB required only half kurama ckakra which is not more then 1/10 kaguya chakra

i agree with 5-B Kaguya but not sure about madara thou

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Having the energy of many fodders Ôëá having 5-B stats.

You're correct, except in this case, we have a legit feat that scales the chakra that an IT caster can use to 5-B at most.

Again, 5-B ETSB is only 5-B due to the Chakra gained from IT. Unless of ourse you're going to tell me that ETSB isn't 5-B now.

 

[LordWhis]

It isn't, it's 5-A

 

[Dark649]

Kaguya only had that which she used for a 5-A attack, not Madara. I'm also sure that Madara doesn't know how to do it.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Dark @LG1000

Facts:

• IT allows the caster to use the chakra of those trapped in IT.

• ETSB uses the chakra of those trapped in IT to destroy dimensions capable of holding Celestial Objects.

Do you see where you're arguments are causing a problem?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Kaguya only had that which she used for a 5-A attack, not Madara. I'm also sure that Madara doesn't know how to do it.

Ok, 5-A then. You still can't separate the fact that it's only 5-A due to IT chakra.

And we can't say if Madara can or can't do so. That's why he'd have a Possibly rating scaling from Kaguya.

 

[Theglassman12]

What problem? They just disagree with your for their reasons. Also we already have the ETSB calced at 5-A

 

[TheFinalOrder]

What problem? They just disagree with your for their reasons. Also we already have the ETSB calced at 5-A

Their "reasons" are trying separate ETSB being 5-A from the chakra gained from IT when it's specifically stated ETSB is capable of the 5-A feat due to chakra gained from IT.

At least that's what I gather from Dark's argument. LG1000's argument is based on a misconception on why jutsu are ranked at certain levels.

 

[Mindovin]

ETSB contain every element and sub-element in the Narutoverse because of this i think it's not chakra level but it's properties.

 

[YungManzi]

I disagree with TFO no 5-B naruto.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I disagree with TFO no 5-B naruto.

Because...?

 

[Dzhindzholia]

"Chakra control in Naruto dictates that Kaguya/Madara would be able to use Infinite Tsukiyomi Chakra to amplify other jutsu as well. "

You are not wrong here,unfortunatly Kaguya used chakra of people from Infinity Tsukuyomi only for ETSB,so I am neutral on this.

 

[YungManzi]

For reasons already mentioned.

Chakra doesn't always scale to AP.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Again, them having that much chakra doesn't mean they can bolster their Jutsus or themselves.

Hell the the ETSB actually has to get that big and doesn't start out that way.

Ninja have chakra in their body but to assuming they can automaticlly put all of it into a jutsu isn't right.

The ETSB is proof in it self. Let's assume they can put all that chakra into a jutsu. Considering how long the ETSB took to reach that level. It's only fair to assume it would take them that long for their other Jutsus to get that strong.

They attacks would be 5-B after charging.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@LG1000

I think This chapter will explain Chakra Control Better than I can. It's the official Viz translation.

That being said, the ETSB is like the regular TSB that Naruto, Juubito, Toneri, etc. Have. They're stated to have the power to destroy a forest which is odd, but they don't continuously grow. This is stated. Given that the ETSB is stated to be exactly the same, except for 2 area:

• Size

• Power held within

The "growing" part, has nothing to do with the power within the ETSB. Kaguya can manipulate it's size and shape, but the power is not stated to be connected to it's size. That's unfortinately an assumption and Occams Razor laws kick in here.

 

[DodoNova2]

IF is hax, at most planetary range but no AP

 

[TheFinalOrder]

IF is hax, at most planetary range but no AP

Not talking about IT in that matter. We're discussing the chakra IT allows the caster to use.

 

[DodoNova2]

oh ok

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah sorry Final. Disagreeing as well FRA.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Yeah sorry Final. Disagreeing as well FRA.

The reason's above make no sense. You can't separate IT chakra from ETSB. The ETSB exists BECAUSE IT Chakra.

You CANNOT say Kaguya is 5-B or 5-A with ETSB and completey ignore the fact that the ETSB is created with IT Chakra. That's non-sensical.

That's like saying Sasuke's Kirin is whatever level it is, but ignoring the fact it came from a storm cloud.

• Kaguya > IT Chakra > ETSB > 5-B or 5-A feat.

You cannot discout IT chakra.

 

[Mindovin]

@TFO If we summarize, you basically saying without IT Kaguya take chakra from IT she can't use ETSB. Like without Kurama's chakra, Naruto can't use TBB.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@TFO
If we summarize, you basically saying without IT Kaguya take chakra from IT she can't use ETSB. Like without Kurama's chakra, Naruto can't use TBB.

Yes, but just like Naruto can use Kurama's chakra to amplify other jutsu, Kaguya can do the same with IT chakra.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@TheFinalOrder

I'm sorry but what does her using the IT chakra to create ETSB half to do with this?.

That only means she didn't have the chakra necessary to use it herself. How does this translate to "She can fuel all her attacks with this amount of chakra".

By this logic, your saying Hebi Sasuke can fuel all his jutsu to that level of Kirin... Then why the hell didn't he just use the Chidori Truespear on Itachi instead of wasting time conjuring Kirin?.

It's because his Chidori couldn't hope to be as powerful as Kirin.

So it's also shown moves are just stronger then others.

 

[Mindovin]

Kurama able to amplify Naruto's tecniques and overall power level because Kurama's chakra level and potency greater than Naruto.

How can IT able to give that chakra to Kaguya when everyone inside IT nothing but even worst than fodder?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@LG1000

• IT Chakra is what gives the ETSB the power to "Obliterate The World" and her dimension.

• It's called chakra control. The same way she can create the ETSB with IT chakra, she can route it to amplify other stats or jutsu (I already explained the body stuff though)

• Bad example. Kirin is Elemental Manipulation. It's even stated to be on a higher level than what can be produced normally. Hebi Sasuke also didn't have the chakra levels required to procuced a jutsu on the scale or power of kirin.

• This is false. As we even see, A casual chidori from Sasuke in the last is far superior to Kirin. Again, Sasuke didn't have those levels of chakra to produce a Chidori as powerful as Kirin.

• At a basic level, yeah, but it's been shown countless times the strength of a jutsu is determined by the chakra given to it.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Obviously more chakra doesn't mean higher AP always but saying Chakra cant increase a Jutsu's Offensive capabilities is a really bad argument

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

when it's shown countless times that they can amp up their attacks via having more chakra

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Obviously more chakra doesn't mean higher AP always but saying Chakra cant increase a Jutsu's Offensive capabilities is a really bad argument

Having more chakra in your body that is. Pumping more chakra into a jutsu like Rasengan or Chidori does increase the AP of it. It's within reason. Pumping more chakra into a jutsu like say Jinton doesn't increase it's AP, just it's scale.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

regardless having more chakra 9/10 times increases the efficiency of the Jutsu.

 

[LordWhis]

I feel the need to drop the chakra =/= power statement