5-A Hax World Cup: Mega Man VS The Hunter (R1 G1 F1)

[Psychomaster35]

(Hub)

In this match, Mega Ma (nominated by Psychomaster35) will fight The Hunter (nominated by The Axiom of Virgo).

Both have all their weapons and equipment.

Who wins?

Mega Man: 4 (Greenshifter, X Squared, Milly Rocking Bandit, 00potato)

The Hunter: 7 (JoshSSJGod, XSOULOFCINDERX, Spinoirr, Bummel, I'm Blue daba dee daba die, DeathNoodles, Migue79)

Inconclusive:

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

OK, unless Megaman starts off with Time Stop then The Hunter has a chance here to use their Elder Seal to Null all of Megaman's Elemental Weaponry and also start using all of their other useful tools to good effect. Btw, what is the AP difference?

 

[Spinoirr]

Bump

 

[Greenshifter]

I think black hole + time stop gives Mega Man the edge here. Also AP is 29.652 Yottatons for Mega Man and I think above 22.485 Yottatons for the Hunter.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

This can really go either way...Hmm. I'll go with the Hunter for more varied hax and abilities that give him an advantage like Information Analysis for example or sleep manipulation ( which while counting as an incap due to the rules would allow the Hunter to land a very powerful attack onto an off-guard Mega Man.) or even the Hunter's probability manipulation or the status effects which would again leave Mega Man wide open for a free attack with nothing Mega Man can do to get around it. So for now Hunter FRA

 

[Psychomaster35]

Vote counted.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, Hunter FRA.

 

[Greenshifter]

Is his sleep hax potent enough to counter self-sustenance since can't really put something to sleep that doesn't sleep?

 

[Greenshifter]

Mega Man is also very versatile, skilled enough to dodge most attacks that inflict status effects and if he does get hit off-guard heightens the chance of a deadly time stop + AZ combo or time stop + black hole combo. My vote is on the Blue Bomber.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

• Sleep is a status effect in monster hunter. Just like Paralysis and Dragon it can be applied regardless and requires resistance to status effects which Mega Man does not have. So yes due to being a status effect ( the sleep manipulation is mostly from the trap and not the status effect )

• You say that but remember that probability manipulation is on the Hunter's side, there is nothing stopping it from making the attacks hit and thus nothing stopping the status effects from going through which also due to probability manipulation would greatly lower Mega Man's chances of a time stop + AZ combo or time stop + black hole combo.

• I also would like to point out something I forgot to mention, Dragon Element while also having an elemental power null also has statistic reduction as it saps the inflicted's strength away so there goes Mega Man AP advantage ( if we don't include the buffs Hunter gets )

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I'm not sure about type 3 self substance but the Hunter is capable of inflicting the sleep status on Elder dragons (with have limitless stamina), Mega Man's time stop is very potent however The Hunter has enhanced senses, instinctive reactions, information analysis and extrasensory perception to predict MMs moves here.

The AP difference here is negligible since it won't overcome The Hunter's regen/healing abilities (plus divine blessing; which reduces all damage the hunter takes by up to 60%) that said Rock has some very impressive healing as well as defensive abilities too moreover his inorganic physiology plus future tech will give the hunter some trouble.

This battle (between some of Capcom's finest) can legitimately go either way, I will write more later but for now I to need sleep.

 

[00potato]

Do robots even sleep? How would sleep work on it. Being a status effect doesn't make it work on something that would be immune to it.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Do robots even sleep? How would sleep work on it. Being a status effect doesn't make it work on something that would be immune to it.

It depends on the type of sleep hax, we have characters on this site that can inflict sleep on opponents that are beyond the concept of sleep as well as characters that can use blood manipulation/life force absorption on robots (don't ask fiction is weird); regardless sleep manipulation is just one small facet in this battle (since both characters have plenty of other hax that hasn't been mentioned yet), like I said I do more explaining later.

 

[00potato]

Yes but the Hunter exclusively hunts living beings so it won't be work on him. Elemental null will only stop rock for a bit as he has far more than just those. Rock also has Speed/Gear (I think he should have that in this key.)along with time stop meaning that he will get many hits in before Hunter can even do anything.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Megaman's Profile doesn't say he can resist Sleep Manipulation so...

Also, The Hunter can practically turn invisible and conceal his presence with the Gillie Mantle so Megaman would loose track of him for a minute so he could get a free hit it or 2 in. Also, The Hunter can Physically Grapple and overpower him with his higher Lifting Strength and possibly start wailing on him like he does when he grabs onto monsters.

 

[Spinoirr]

Hunter fra

 

[Greenshifter]

@Soulofcinder self-sustenance is enough if the speed hax isn't something special and how would you even put a robot to sleep?

Mega man has a lightflash that can blind the opponent and gravity hax to render those other advantages null.

He also has transmutation and temporary petrification, so if anyone is getting in free hits it's Mega Man which is kinda detrimental when he is the one who has 2 or 3 haxes to instantly end the battle.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

• You're questioning the logic of it yet not questioning how Mega Man can create a Black Hole without anything near him being sucked in and crushed? Our typical logic on how these things work don't apply to these fictional worlds.

• Hunter resists light manipulation/blinding. Hunter also has experience with Gravity manipulation with the Deviant Astalos nor do either of those actually negate the Hunter's advantages like knowing about Rock's abilities with Information Analysis or Probability Manipulation which would again give the Hunter every advantage he can get with status effects to what Mega Man decides to do.

• Again, probability manipulation and if those hax can end the battle then the Hunter who can inflict sleep, paralysis, stun, etc will be able to that and more with the combo of those, buffs and probability.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Here's the battle from my PoV:

First off Mega Man is going to struggle to hit The Hunter since the Hunter can just blind Rock with flash pods/bombs, dodge attacks with the evasion/temporal mantle, hide his presence with smoke bombs/gillie mantle or use his own inherent stealth mastery (which even works on monsters with both enchanced senses and ESP) however the sheer frustration of trying to hit his opponent might encourage Rock to use his time stop early.

The Hunter won't have any issue hitting Rock (thanks to the above mentioned reflex/stealth advantages) the problem here is that he'll have a very difficult time putting down Rock for good thanks to the blue bomber's robot body not to mention it'll kinda be like The Hunter trying to fight another Hunter (due to Rock's sheer versatility).

The outcome of this battle depends on who uses their most potent hax first? (since both have healing, damage reduction, stat amps etc), AP/durability are moot points here.

Will The Hunter incap this strange mechanical monstrosity with status effects, traps and favourable probability?

Or will Mega Man use his one or two most deadliest abilities (in combination) to defeat this strange almost "organic" robot master?.

You decide!.

• Note The Hunter may get resistance to AZ in the future (or at least freezing), Mega Man likely resists the mind attack aspect of the dragon element and yeah both are pretty pragmatic fighters.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump

 

[X_Squared]

Personally, I think Mega Man takes this. This is going to be long.

Mega Man is a robot and as such shouldn't be affected by biological abilities or anything that would affect a living being. Mega Man may not have a resistance to them listed specifically on his profile, but we're not going to sit here and argue that abilities like poison or hunger inducement are going to work on a robot are we? Unless proven otherwise, this is a fact and considering that The Hunter has only fought giant monsters, I'm even more inclined to believe that this is true. Also, please don't mention Mega Man's black holes and use it as justification as to why sleep manipulation should work. That is an extremely poor analogy and the legitimacy of his black holes have been discussed several times before. Mega Man's black holes are real and justified - that's final. On that note, Mega Man resists any of The Hunter's abilities that deal with the body, soul or mind since again, he's a robot.

The Hunter's stealth isn't going to be that big of an issue as well considering Mega Man has fought foes who were capable of invisibility, spammed teleportation, and spammed time stop respectively in battle and always came out on top. He even correctly predicted where Flash Ma was going to appear after a time stop. Mega Man traversed through pitch-black areas and overcame invisible obstacles before in rooms full of spikes. Needless to say, Mega Man's senses and experience in combat should allow him to contend with The Hunter's stealth.

The Hunter has many opportunities to hit Mega Man? Well, so does he. Mega Man has several AoE weapons that just demolish the area like meteor showers, AZ blizzards and other forms of AoE, homing attack and danmaku-like weaponry. He can also slow down and stop time, activate the Double Gear System to speed himself up to the point where time seems slowed down, transmute things into concrete, black holes to suck up projectiles, weapons and his opponent, etc. Mega Man also has access to several forcefields and attack reflection. It seems that The Hunter has no answer for these weapons.

Lastly, Mega Man's intelligence in combat is a huge factor here. His whole strategy centers around adaptation and exploiting weaknesses. Mega Man is resourceful with his weaponry and will notice that if some of his attacks aren't working, he'll switch it up until he finds weapons that do work. Additionally, if he sees that The Hunter is constantly switching up tools and such for different abilities, then who's to say that Mega Man won't forcefully snatch those weapons out of his hands or transmute them into concrete and such?

The only good points for The Hunter are his power null, statistics reduction, probability manipulation and his own resistances to Mega Man's elemental attacks. But even then, The Hunter's power null only seems to work on his elemental attacks, statistics reduction (like Dragon Element) says it saps away strength which may imply it decreases physical strength and not overall AP (correct me if I'm wrong), probability manipulation is vague (since all that's said about it was that it will allow Hunter to land hits on Mega Man and dodge attacks) and needs some elaboration on how it works and while it's good that Hunter resists a good chunk of Mega Man's elemental arsenal, it depends on the armor (so it's not like Hunter can resist everything off the bat unless he can stack armors and stuff) and Mega Man has more weapons in his arsenal than elemental attacks (energy projectiles, shields, space-time manip, attack reflection, sticky explosives, homing attacks, etc).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

> 5-A Hax World Cup > Mega Man and Hunter

thinking:
tbh, Hunter kinda gets nerfed by Mega Man not really being alive. A fair amount of their more impressive hax just... won't work. Hunter can't really incap through stuff like sleep or poison. I also don't think Mega has a soul (he might, I played like one game) so the Hunter's literal best ability is out the window. I'm not saying it's impossible, Paralysis should still work alongside other stuff like Dragon Element just nuking a lot of Mega's powers. I'm just saying that's a very rough fight.

Not voting yet since I genuinely am unsure.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

To address X Squared's points (which tbh are very well constructed), this will be pretty long too.

• The Hunter's stealth is flawless, he could be standing right in front of his opponent and he wouldn't be detected (even by those with who are masters of stealth OR hunting stealthy opponents themselves) also it should be noted The Hunter's gillie mantle isn't invisibility and it's pretty unconventional (since it hides The Hunter's movements, scent, traces, heat signature etc) plus he can still use slinger ammo for distraction something I'm pretty sure Mega Man hasn't really seen before.

• Experience is honestly about even considering the massive and varied roster of monsters the Hunter has defeated (from raptors to literal kaijus) many of which required different strats to overcome, The Hunter has also defeated opponents that could teleport and turn invisible too not to mention The Hunter is also a VERY resourceful, adaptive and strategic fighter in his own right (there's literally an armour skill called "Weakness Exploit") his whole thing is learning his opponents movements/behaviour during the fight then changing his approach to counter then overcome his opponents tactics.

• Most of the elemental attacks Mega Man opens up with are nothing new to The Hunter; he has dealt with opponents that spam elemental AoEs like Teostra, Kirin, Velkhana and various other Elder dragons moreover he has dealt with meteor storms too from Crimson Fatalis and Dalamadur not to mention stats amp are again a non-factor since The Hunter has dealt with opponents that become faster, stronger, tougher etc over the course of the battle plus he has own stat amps. (On a side note The Hunter has fought machinery in the past in the form of Atal Kah's nesto which is essentially is a giant mecha dragon that it controls using its threads).

• Finally to clear up some misconceptions:

The dragon element power null does vary per game however in most cases it nullifies all attacks that are classified as "elemental", it weakens your overall AP and lowers your chances of doing "critical damage" (ofc there's the mind attack aspect but lets not go back there).

The probability manipulation is a blanket term for various skills/tools that are dictated by a percentage or by "certain" circumstances, there's too many to name but a few examples include; Slugger (increases the chances of KO'ing an opponent), Divine blessing (often reduces the damage you take by up to 60%), Moxie (prevents the Hunter from being defeated once per hunt if an attack would otherwise kill the Hunter), Evasion Mantle (makes it easier for the Hunter to dodge incoming attacks and boosts AP with a successful dodge), Affinity booster (increases the likelyhood of the Hunter doing critical damage to a monster) and many more!.

Lastly this is SBA so the Hunter (as well a Rock) have everything at their disposal, changing armours/weapons mid-hunt is game mechanics think of The Hunter been treated similar to Dante or Kratos in this match (same applies to Rock) also The Hunter resists stealing, space/time attacks, explosions etc not to mention he has own form of attack reflection (with counters/hunter arts), sticky explosives (sticky ammo), shields etc.

This battle is defo going to be a close one.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I will say that Hunter's stealth theoretically would work here. It beats out dancing from a meter or two away on enemies with echolocation (and other fun variants of "location"). Still unsure overall so grats to OP I guess, good matchup. A rare thing in these trying times.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, sticking with the Hunter FRA.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Little mistake made by the OP, @XSOULOFCINDERX got counted twice.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Oh, thanks.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Dante, Rock, The Hunter etc. Capcom sure loves their characters to have bloated arsenals and it's glorious!.

 

[Bummel]

Monster hunter FRA

 

[Spinoirr]

Hunter fra

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Hunter FRA

 

[JoshSSJGod]

OP did it again, counted Spinoirr twice.

 

[Psychomaster35]

It should be noted that Mega Man has fought robots before who can utilize stealth, an example being Search Man. Plus, even if Hunter attempts to hide, Mega Man will be willing to fire a homing attack like Homing Sniper, or even straight up nuke the battlefield with attacks like Centaur Flash or Astro Crush.

 

[Psychomaster35]

OP did it again, counted Spinoirr twice.

I noticed and I changed it, but turns out you ninja'd me after I changed it while writing my counter argument lol

 

[JoshSSJGod]

It should be noted that Mega Man has fought robots before who can utilize stealth, an example being Search Man. Plus, even if Hunter attempts to hide, Mega Man will be willing to fire a homing attack like Homing Sniper, or even straight up nuke the battlefield with attacks like Centaur Flash or Astro Crush.

This was address and Mega Man while dealing with stealth before has not dealt with Hunter's level of stealth ( the man can break dance in front of a creature with echo-location ). Homing missiles also rely on a signature like heat for example which would be covered by the Hunter's mantles which again as stated before remove all traces of him.

 

[DeathNoodles]

The Hunter FRA

 

[X_Squared]

@ Mr.Bambu
Mega Man doesn't have a soul or anything of the sort. You must be thinking about Reploids like Mega Man X and Zero, who do have souls and even DNA somehow, but classic Robot Masters don't.

@Axiom & some others
Hunter being able to remove his presence completely and to the point where echolocation fails to pinpoint him is impressive, but it's nowhere near time stop. As stated before, Mega Man has gone up against Robot Masters who spammed time stop in battle and attacked Mega Man during frozen time. Said Robot Masters time stopping like that is essentially the same as Hunter's stealth in that their presence can't be detected since time is stopped after all. Yet despite their advantages, Mega Man has defeated them time and time again and even predicted where they were going to appear after stopping time. At least Mega Man has a chance to get away or defend himself when it comes to Hunter's stealth which is better than him being frozen in time and having to predict his opponent's next moves.

Interesting, both of their experience and tactics seem about the same then. So from what I can gather, Hunter and Mega Man's arsenals seem to cancel each other out for the most part. I'd also like to add that elemental weapons aren't new to Mega Man either and he's also defeated opponents who were designed to kill him and be better than him ever since he was just a novice, including Robot Masters who could amp up their stats with Power Gears, Speed Gears and other methods.

Finally, for the the statistics amps and probability manip. Dragon Element nullifying elemental weapons is fine, but to what degree does it lower AP? Mega Man already has a slight lead in AP so if Dragon Element decreases it slightly to make it so that he's slightly below or exactly at Hunter's own AP then it's not that notable. Also, Hunter's probability works a lot like RPG mechanics which is very problematic here, but does that also mean it follows a trade off system or has negative effects like RPGs usually do? For example, if Hunter has a boosted chance of landing a hit or increasing his AP, then is there also a chance of disabling an item or decreasing defense or something? More importantly, are these effects permanent in battle or temporary? There are always negatives to these things in RPGs. On that note, I know that Hunter has all of his equipment here, but my point is that is everything just stacked onto him or does he have to switch? I mean a weakness stated on his profile is that his abilities depend on the armor he's wearing, implying that while Hunter has everything in this battle, he still has to switch between them regardless and may prove my earlier points. I mean Dante still has to switch his weapons for different effects and such so I would imagine it's the same in that sense.

Also yes, while Hunter resists space-time manip, it's in terms of attack (i.e. Alatreon being able to cut through space-time). Time Stopper and Time Slow are effects and not necessarily attacks in application so they're still viable, unlike Centaur Flash which is a spatial attack (and which is why I didn't mention it). Also, while Hunter can resist his items from being stolen, that won't stop Mega Man from just transmuting them into concrete or corroding them down to nothing once he notices how essential they are.

Overall, both resist or are outright immune to a good chunk of each others arsenal, counter each other with their weapons and seemingly share the same tactics. But Mega Man's AZ, time manipulation, transmutation and black holes are huge factors and work regardless of any statistical changes that may happen due to their properties. Add that with some of the other edges I've pointed out here and I think the Blue Bomber still takes it in the end.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

@X Squared That is skipping a number of details which are very important such as "Did Rock have multiple chances to estimate where they'd be?" Assuming they did from your wording of "spamming" he did then it can be concluded that Mega Man being the adaptive fighter he is used the previous attempts to give a more solid prediction? Against the Hunter that won't apply with everything we already know.

"Did he just randomly predict it right and how exactly he did it?" If he did just do it with no reason as of why then couldn't it be concluded that it was pure luck? If there is a reason for it then why would it also apply to the Hunter who is using a much different tactic than what Rock dealt with before, the situation is akin to predicting where The Flash would be compared to predicting where Batman would be. Flash while fast enough to do everything Batman can do and more isn't trained for stealth and thus would have more predictable movements while Batman has been trained and thus would be more knowledgeable about how to avoid these situations.

The lore isn't specific on exactly the percentage it just says "saps the strength" which for all we know could mean all of it. The effects from Monster Hunter actually don't have any downsides whatsoever! All they do is help you and in the game it is up to you to create a set that compliments each other's strengths. The skills themselves are triggered by certain conditions which are extremely easy from "Being under full health" to even full on passive abilities.

The Hunter still has a massive advantage with Information Analysis which would allow him to know of these abilities and use not only his adaptive fighting style but also the immense amount of experience to plan around and avoid/delay Rock's big attacks or just straight up reflect them with his Attack Reflection ( Black Hole reflection :U )

This fight is still extremely close but I believe with the Hunter being able to know what Rock has with Information Analysis, Probability Manipulation to increase his chances of doing whatever, using his own "fun" hax like his minor physics manipulation to force Rock to make a mistake or drain Rock of his strength to negate the AP advantage, summon allied kitties ( grimalkins ) to assist and further his own chances, inflict status effects to force free hits upon Rock ( some of which could be fatal depending on some circumstances like does Hunter get a critical hit? Where did he aim? If the head were debuffs applied? )

Now with this done and written I am going to go to bed as I have had a very busy day and am tired as hell. Have a great day you all.

 

[X_Squared]

@Josh

1. Yes, Mega Man was able to predict that after some time in the battle, so it does chalk up to his adaptation and intelligence. The main reason I'm even addressing this is because I'm trying to say that Mega Man's previous battles against foes who can conceal their presence via time stop means he can contend with Hunter while he's concealed. They're nearly the same in that regard of eliminating traces of the user with time stop being arguably the better of the two, yet Mega Man was able to overcome it before.

Besides, the Ghillie Mantle isn't all what it's hyped up to be. For one, the Mantle has a cooldown so it's not like Hunter can spam it and secondly its duration is deducted whenever the Hunter moves so if he attacks or does anything, it will dissipate unless he stands still (according to this ). Also, it's pretty obvious when Hunter puts on the Mantle since he literally throws it over himself and becomes hidden. Once Mega Man sees this, he'll immediately deduce that the Hunter is invisible somewhere (as he's seen before when Wily Capsule 7 turned invisible doing the same thing). Most importantly though, the Mantle doesn't even completely conceal Hunter considering that the lower half of his body is still exposed and any weapon on his back is going to be protruding from the mantle itself (as I've seen here which also explains how the Mantle works). So in any case, Mega Man is gonna end up seeing him anyway and won't be fooled by it unlike the primal monsters Hunter has faced.

2. Just because the lore is vague in that statement of sapping away strength doesn't mean we should automatically assume the maximum and say it completely depletes AP without any concrete proof. Also, after what I've seen from the Ghillie Mantle, abilities and items do have downsides like cooldowns and other specific limitations. There are limitations to Hunter's arsenal thus the game's premise on creating an ideal set of equipment that compliment each other like you said.

3. Psychic Vision doesn't do anything of the sort (here ). From what I've read, all it shows is a monster's location on a map and whether or not it's angry or calm and other short readings when paired with other skills. That isn't even remotely close to the level of info analysis you're suggesting, so it's not like Hunter is going to get a full history of Mega Man's schematics or weaponry to know what he's going to do. Hunter wouldn't see Mega Man's big attacks coming until he's already hit and even if he manages to reflect Mega Man's them (I highly doubt he'll reflect his black holes), Mega Man already resists them and can render his own black holes useless with his Concrete Shot (like he did in his battle with Galaxy Man).

4. Again the only real problem is Hunter's probability manipulation as it increases the likelihood of attacks landing and effects occurring. Info analysis is nowhere near as useful and Mega Man can also summon allies with Hornet Chaser to attack foes or even summon Rush or Eddie to drop off healing items plus ammo for his special weapons.

I stand with my statements in the previous post about Mega Man narrowly taking this.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

There are issues with the points you bring up like massively underestimating the Hunter's stealth but I found some stuff that could change the fight completely and turn it into the Hunter's favour so I'm not gonna be active on this for a bit have fun.