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Do not derail
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4-B Kaguya (this is useless and I'm wasting my time 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥)
- Thread starter DavidTPPM
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there is a current staff thread reviewing this. you can check it out
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Funny, I was just considering making a thread that uses the ‘Destroy the Sun from the Earth’ calc to upgrade the ETSB, but you beat me to it
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I don't think this is the same logic.
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Please link
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Kaguya should be 4A but Kishimoto is too lazy to draw a starry night sky
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I’m aware, I just had my own idea for 4-B, but this also works is all I’m saying
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(STAFF ONLY) EE AP revision
very simple, Existance Erasure is a hax not AP therefore profiles that have EE that have extenssive feats of affecting an determined structure with said hax EE should have an "with Existance Erasure", similar to how we list creation feats that don't scale to the characters statistics, so that...
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Wouldn't Kaguya telekinesis scale to it ? She is literally holding ETSO the size of a solar system 
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Lets finish up this CRT first then you can create another one to tackle that part.Wouldn't Kaguya telekinesis scale to it ? She is literally holding ETSO the size of a solar system
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I was just asking a question based on what we already know.
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I understand your point. However, discussing Kaguya’s scaling ( via lifting) is a different topic. In this case, the CRT is focused solely on obtaining an accurate value for ETSO. Bringing that conversation into this thread would significantly derail it.
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As far as I'm aware the current interpretation for ETSO is not that it explodes as there's no evidence that it does so. Instead we go by the interpretation that the TSO completely engulfs the dimension which destroys it and then the TSO recreated it.
If we were to assume it just explodes then we wouldn't need any new calcs and it would just go to 4-B via the standard "destroying sun from earth" calculation. The calc I presented in the OP is specifically going by the "ETSO doesn't explode" interpretation. Basically regardless of interpretation it should be 4-B overtime.
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- Thread starter
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Like I said previously, idrc. It's on OP to justify the mechanics of the jutsu.
Edit: @DavidTPPM do your job.
Yall know you can't tag other members right? You should have DMed me instead
HelloThere1089
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I know I can't ping you. I was under the impression that you would be checkingYall know you can't tag other members right? You should have DMed me instead
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HelloThere1089
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Ain't no way he abandoned the thread again....
- Starts thread
- Abandons thread
- Come backs to say we can't ping members
- Doesn't address counters
- Leaves...again
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- Thread starter
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No that's the diameter. The diameter of the dimension is the distance between the planet and sun + the size of the planets (I ignored the planets and suns size since they would do like a 0.001% difference lmao).
But the formula for volume uses radius so I had to divide the diameter by 2.
HelloThere1089
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Why would that be the diameter? The star needs to be at the center of the dimension and the planet needs to revolve around it. Otherwise the planet will get sucked in due to gravitational pull from the star.
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Oh yeah that makes sense. Especially given how the ice dimension was shown to have a day night cycle meaning the dimensions aren't just stationary.
I'll update the calc later but yeah, doubling the radius will just yield 8x higher results due to square cube law. No tier change happens I think.
HelloThere1089
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I am pretty much neutral to the method. On a glance it seems fine, but I would like to see counters from knowledgeable members.
HelloThere1089
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Why haven't we given her a rating for this?
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We probably should.
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- Thread starter
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Personally I think using the blatant statement of her having enough power to destroy the dimension is the most straightforward approach but since that seems to have been rejected in the past because we don't know if she actually blows up her dimension, this should be the best alternative
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This one's just high-key Kishimoto's fault tbf. Calling it the Expansive Truth Seeking Ball, and saying that it's continuously expanding is kind of a shot in the foot for the whole "it explodes" idea.
HelloThere1089
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Does EE erase space? Or just matter.
Edit: Nvm. Just checked. It's not just matter.
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Yeaaah that's why I'm not exactly fighting the idea rn. But if we go with that interpretation my calculation should be perfectly usable.
Also the databook says it "contains the power to turn the world to naught" which makes it consistent even without the boom boom interpretation
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Yeah, EE can potentially apply to anything if the story specifies, even concepts and other crazy stuff.
But the standard assumption for baseline EE is just physical matter.
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If we are not going to award it a quality from the standard TSO aka being an explosive, then I don't think we should give it the same restrictions as a standard TSO so the EE should be removed no? Or am I missing something
HelloThere1089
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Nobody is saying it can't explode. Slayer is saying it casts doubt on the notion that it was gonna destroy the dimension by exploding instead of expanding. It can do both. We just don't know which one it was gonna do.
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You are missing something.
Nobody is taking away from the ETSB's qualities. It is objectively the same as a regular TSB. This isn't up for discussion.
But the fact is nobody actually knows how it was going to destroy the dimension. However, my interpretation has some support to it. Yours has none. Which is why mine is the widely accepted interpretation, and yours is not.
HelloThere1089
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What do you think of the proposal in the OP?
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The idea that if a fist sized TSB has forest level energy, then a Sun sized one has 4-B energy? I think it's fine in theory, but I'm kinda waiting for the opposition to make their arguments before I commit to an official vote.
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@DavidTPPM
I must commend you; you did an excellent job on this proposal. It's one of the best I've seen in a long time in regards to ETSB.
I must commend you; you did an excellent job on this proposal. It's one of the best I've seen in a long time in regards to ETSB.
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Btw its theoritical final size is way bigger than Sun(doesnt really matter, just saying)
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I know, I was just oversimplifying the premise.
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Hmmmmm.....
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I don't have a lot of time to commit to the thread right now; in a nutshell though I just don't buy the premise that because a Truth-Seeking Orb of a certain size contains a certain amount of power (a laughably low forest-busting amount) that means that means we can assume anything made of "Truth-Seeking Orb" substance contains a proportional amount of power to size. So assuming that Kaguya creating an Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb with an assumed radius 149 million kilometers over an assumed timeframe of 15 years means that she'd be constantly outputting Brown Dwarf Star levels of chakra or Attack Potency every second.... (Which happens to be a level of power never displayed by anyone else in the verse before or after this by a considerable margin)
All in all, there seem to be too many assumptions to me for it to be workable.
All in all, there seem to be too many assumptions to me for it to be workable.
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Fallacies. I will take my time to attack this.
Though I will not be looking to convince you, I will just point out some flaws.
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1.Strawman Fallacy: You're dismissing the idea of proportional scaling by mocking the "forest-busting" claim rather than addressing the actual point. The debate isn't about whether smaller TSOs are laughably weak; it's about whether Kaguya's Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO) could logically scale in power based on its size and mechanics. You are Ignoring that core aspect of the argument. If the size of a fist contains x energy, then the size of a sun contains x energy.
2. Argument from Personal Incredulity: Simply saying, "I don’t buy the premise" isn't a valid argument. You’re dismissing the proportional scaling claim without giving any logical reason or evidence to counter it. Just because you find it hard to believe doesn’t automatically make it wrong.
3. Appeal to Ignorance:You argue that no one in the verse has shown Brown Dwarf Star-level chakra output, so it must not be true. Just because something hasn't been shown directly doesn’t mean it can’t exist within the verse’s most especially for a final attack of the final villain of a show(Naruto).You’re also ignoring the fact that Kaguya’s ETSO draws energy from the shinobi world. “By the way don't forget that right now Kaguya doesn't even scale to ETSO”.
Finally in regards to the Outlier part
Outliers
An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power. Outliers are often regarded as unusable in forum debates. However, efforts should be made to try to reconcile...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Claiming this as an "outlier" without evidence is misleading, especially when there's nothing in the lore that contradicts it. If there’s no clear inconsistency or counter-evidence within the verse, labeling a feat as an outlier is an attempt to dismiss it without proper justification. “Ohh we have not seen anything like this before” is not a valid counter. Many things have to come in place to deem a feat an outlier, read your outlier page.
Guys when they start using outliers just know that you have won.
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