2 vs 2 The Tag Team Championship Tournament: The EVIL Boxers vs The Malleables

[RandomGuy2345]

it’ll **** his mind lol

 

[azontr]

Cool, so we don't even know if he'd start with it against an opponent he has no information on.

Then, as I said, Yu sees 2006 in slow motion, moves before he pulls out the gas and one-taps still. Nothing changes.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Nah
Also I should mention 2006’s reaction speed should be supersonic too since he scales to Clef who has that so again the speed argument is not in your favor, maybe I could update the page but idfk why is reaction speed getting exempt from speed equal

Anyways if our only reference point if one fight we use that fight, otherwise we can’t really say anything meaningful on how he’d fight so

 

[azontr]

Put the reaction speed on the profile, then.

We can say that he used it against an opponent he knew was dangerous to him. He will not know that Yu was dangerous to him, and as such, he will not pull out the gas immediately, and if he doesn't he's dead.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Later, either way if we agree on 2006 being faster actually (Even though when you think about it speed arguments with speed equal defeats the whole purpose of it) that kinda negates one of Yu’s main edges
And like even if you don’t argue he uses the gas off the cuff I think it’s fair to assume he’d at least get some claws or something to mail Yu which can likely make him bleed out so

 

[azontr]

I'll agree once it is actually on the profile lmao. It is not, so it is irrelevant and Yu still has higher reactions.

Skill issue. 2006 wouldn't scratch Yu with claws in a million years.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Does the memory shit come from SCP 939?

 

[azontr]

Okay, reading the memory crap from SCP 939's page.

It seems that the memory stuff seems to only last for a duration of 30 minutes, and causes headaches afterwards. During this time, can't Yu just... sit there? 2006 can't harm Yu. He is at an AP disadvantage of over 10 times. Yu could deadass just sit there while 2006 proceeds to do absolutely nothing of worth and the effects of the gas end.

 

[Rikimarox2]

It says it causes some memory shit and mild hallucinations, but it doesn't seem that severe? Like, if Yu could still control his body, then any punch from him would kill SCP.

Not to mention, does 2006 start in 939's form? And if it did, wouldn't he need to exhale the gas? So when he goes for a punch, he still would've hit 2006 and ****** him up while in the middle of exhaling the gas.

 

[azontr]

Actually, yeah, reading it over, it doesn't seem like it completely wipes Yu's memories to the point he can't even remember how to extend his arm for a simple punch.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I'll agree once it is actually on the profile lmao. It is not, so it is irrelevant and Yu still has higher reactions.

Skill issue. 2006 wouldn't scratch Yu with claws in a million years.

Somehow I feel like when the scaling on the page is to a guy with supersonic reaction and combat speed than it’s rather evident by itself that 2006’s reactions are also in fact supersonic
So yah Yu gets outsped

 

[azontr]

I mean, fair, I guess? That doesn't mean that 2006 will start out with the gas.

I'd also like to know if the amnesia shit is potent to the point it stops Yu from remembering how to simply extend his arm to punch something.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Am I missing something here?

Assuming 2006 is supersonic everything, then his speed will get equalized to Yu, but Yu would still have faster reaction speed since his reaction speed is separate from his combat speed? It's his ability to perceive time slowly.

 

[Tllmbrg]

2006’s travel speed isn’t supersonic so

 

[azontr]

Also deadass anterograde amnesia just stops someone from retaining new information.

Yu knowing how to punch isn't new information. By the time of this fight, Yu's been boxing for years. Dodging and punching is not new information that needs to be retained.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I mean, fair, I guess? That doesn't mean that 2006 will start out with the gas.

I'd also like to know if the amnesia shit is potent to the point it stops Yu from remembering how to simply extend his arm to punch something.

I mean, what can Yu do against an enemy that is faster than him since this is a position he has never been in
Also it would prevent Yu from really understand what’s going on with 2006, I somehow think fighting a regenerating shapeshifter would throw him off a bit y’know?

 

[Rikimarox2]

It doesn't state his traveling speed or anything lack that, it just says it varies from inapplicable to Supersonic. It doesn't make a distinction between travel speed and combat speed.

Profile outdated or smth?

 

[Tllmbrg]

Most pages in general do not list travel speed
I think we can all agree Yu is not running at subsonic speed when he goes from place to place, don’t see his page noting that so

 

[azontr]

Okay but like...

What's 2006's win condition anyway? He cannot harm Yu in anyway that matters, meanwhile Yu can deadass just outlast him until he gets tired and then one-tap. He's taken significant injury and blood loss before and still fought relatively fine, having to fight while not getting injured in any relevant capacity deadass means he can just let 2006 do nothing and get tired from doing nothing.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Aim for the eyes?

 

[azontr]

Yu's eyes are 10x more durable than what 2006 can harm.

 

[Tllmbrg]

…okay you know that claws and the like exploit surface area which would let it harm Yu right?
Especially a weak point like the eyes, which you’re not arguing to be as durable as the rest of his body

 

[azontr]

I know eyes don't scale to the rest of the body's durability but deadass how does that matter when that's just downscaling from 10 times more durable than what 2006 can harm. We're not going to assume that the fragility of the eyes means that they are for some reason that much less durable than Yu is.

And uh, no, it wouldn't let it harm Yu? At all? I don't think that's how durability works.

 

[Agnaa]

Yu's gimmick is literally seeing things in slow motion, and 2006's Supersonic+ is not listed as reaction speed on the profile. Reaction speed also isn't affected by speed equalized in the first place, so bringing it up is still very well an argument.

Reaction speed is effected by speed equalisation. If we look at the rules for it...

The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.

It explicitly says that reaction speed is reduced by the same multiplier as combat speed. This can still leave a character with faster reactions, but it is still changed.

 

[azontr]

Reaction speed is effected by speed equalisation. If we look at the rules for it...
It explicitly says that reaction speed is reduced by the same multiplier as combat speed. This can still leave a character with faster reactions, but it is still changed.

Hm. I've been fed false information, then? I've always been told that reactions are not reduced by the same multiplier.

 

[Agnaa]

Apparently xd

 

[azontr]

Apparently xd

I've been lied to my whole life.

So, if this is the case, would Yu still have higher reaction speed due to his ability to see things in slow motion, or would this still be equalized?

 

[Agnaa]

I've been lied to my whole life.

So, if this is the case, would Yu still have higher reaction speed due to his ability to see things in slow motion, or would this still be equalized?

Ehh, from a look at his profile, it's not actually given a speed rating. And we can't really quantify vague statements of "seeing in slow motion". Someone moving at 90% speed is still technically "in slow motion", but that doesn't give much of an advantage.

So like, technically yes, but it's unquantifiable and so not very useful.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I know eyes don't scale to the rest of the body's durability but deadass how does that matter when that's just downscaling from 10 times more durable than what 2006 can harm. We're not going to assume that the fragility of the eyes means that they are for some reason that much less durable than Yu is.

And uh, no, it wouldn't let it harm Yu? At all? I don't think that's how durability works.

Yes we do, eyes are way more fragile than your muscles
You can’t poke someone’s muscles the same way you do their eyes right?
Also considering bullets which have 9-C AP can harm 9-and through surface area exploits…

 

[azontr]

Ehh, from a look at his profile, it's not actually given a speed rating. And we can't really quantify vague statements of "seeing in slow motion". Someone moving at 90% speed is still technically "in slow motion", but that doesn't give much of an advantage.

So like, technically yes, but it's unquantifiable and so not very useful.

I'm planning to put it in the speed section, the CRT is still pending so it is not there yet. It states that he perceives the world in a "different dimension of time" and "in slow motion" multiple times, and it is even listed in his PnA section, so the plan is just to put it as "Subsonic, higher reaction speed".

 

[Agnaa]

Ah okay. Still sounds a bit vague, but it'd let him do whatever he does with that canonically. Being able to see punches and start reacting to them, even from opponents at the same speed. Even though his own speed would barely let him dodge something like that.

 

[Tllmbrg]

…I’m fairly certain that it just makes him the fastest person in canon rather than dodging attacks faster than him

 

[azontr]

Ah okay. Still sounds a bit vague, but it'd let him do whatever he does with that canonically. Being able to see punches and start reacting to them, even from opponents at the same speed. Even though his own speed would barely let him dodge something like that.

I mean, I guess it is vague, but it's allowed him to dodge a punch that'd normally be impossible for him to avoid with his normal speed so take that as you will, I guess.

 

[Agnaa]

…I’m fairly certain that it just makes him the fastest person in canon rather than dodging attacks faster than him

Here's my interpretation/conjecture, from a quick glance at the profile and the scan.

He can't move his body particularly fast, but he can react to things more quickly.

If a punch would hit him in 0.25 seconds, and he'd take 0.1 seconds to move out of the way, most people would get hit by that since it takes them 0.2 seconds to react. But since he can react much faster, he can start moving in, say, 0.05 seconds, letting him dodge something he otherwise couldn't.

This doesn't mean that he's faster than the attack; the punch just has to travel 2.5 times as far to hit him, than he does to dodge it.

He'd be able to get rekt from attacks that are launched sufficiently close to him, which are unpredictable, which can change just before they hit, require large movements to dodge, etc.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Most pages in general do not list travel speed
I think we can all agree Yu is not running at subsonic speed when he goes from place to place, don’t see his page noting that so

What. Yeah we do, when was this ever a thing? If a character has shown different travel and combat speed, we sure as hell should list them tf?

 

[Agnaa]

What. Yeah we do, when was this ever a thing? If a character has shown different travel and combat speed, we sure as hell should list them tf?

We should list travel speed, but many pages don't bother and just list combat speed (especially if there are no travel speed feats). This has been an issue for at least 4 years now.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Oh. So it's not a standard thing that says we don't need to list travel speed or anything, it's just our pages suck?

 

[Tllmbrg]

Most pages are lazy in regards to travel speed ye

I can list some of my own I didn’t bother putting travel speed in
Usually in matches if it’s relevant you should check the travel speed on its own if the page doesn’t list it by itself

 

[Agnaa]

Yep.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Pretty much yah.