2-C MLP/EQG Upgrade

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

This only applies to those scaling to the destruction of the EQG Universe [AKA The Elements of Harmony]. Essentially the Cosmology works like this:

Cosmology:

• EQG recognized that the EQG-verse and Equestria-Verse both are similar in size and parallel in every aspect.
• As shown with Legends of Magic [which is currently considered canon] the Alternate Dimensions aren't future timelines, they are entirely different realities set apart from the original and while they may have similarities, none have ever been considered future timelines unlike most works.
• Future Timelines however, are still within the same reality. Starlight is a notable example, described as jumping through the regular Equestria Universe [NOT Multiverse, but the Universe] despite visiting two distinct separate timelines. Meaning, within Equestria lies 2 timelines, and if EQG is equal in size and parallel, would scale to it's size.
• Another example, in Backstage Pass, Sunset and Pinkie travel from one timeline to another, but still are canonically jumping through their Universe's [as described in the Backstage Pass Novelization] rather than going to separate realities, proving timelines can exist within both. In-fact, Sunset, in the bad ending, was described to go through so many timelines she knew every posssiblity, evidence of multiple timelines being present within Equestria and EQG, not a Alternate Dimension
• In the S5 Finale, Twilight literally traveled to alternate futures within the Equestria Reality.

This would acutely scale all those who roughly scale to the Elements to 2-C roughly. This would also make all Low 2-C feats in the series 2-C. The minimum is the scaling to the timelines seen in the regular Equestria Timeline, which would make it 3 timelines. Otherwise, the highest assumption is the # of timelines seen so much of she knew 'every possibility' according to the Novel within the EQG Reality since the assumption is Equestria and EQG is always seen as comparable realities to the other in terms of structure.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Where is it said Starlight is travelling through the Universe? I'm also going to need quotes for Sunset jumping through the Universes. I neee context.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Perhaps it would be better if you provide us with some scans so it can be better evaluated.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Indeed. I shall. We shall begin with something that if accepted will be the first thing I used before analyzing the others.

Here, in Cutie Re:Mark Pt 2 Twilight refers to going through the past, present, and future of the Universe as going to another world, which as we know in MLP through various revision threads is a timeline:

Twilight Sparkle: I guess so. But this is the second time I've come back and this world" is even worse than the last one! If Starlight keeps doing the same thing in the past, how could the present be so different?

Each time she goes back in time creates another reality, and considering how many times they went through the timestream was 5-6 of them. Keep in mind they are explicitly going through the past, present and future, not another dimension.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

So basically, you are saying that due to these events, the MLP cosmology at the time is 2-C, and that the Low 2-C feats perfomed in the series would then become 2-C?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Yes.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well, from what I see, this seems pretty good. However some scans would still be appreciated.

Also perhaps calling on some knowledgeable staff as well.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Uhh that is an offical transcript from the show. You can't really get scans in the traditional sense.

Sure I'll call Medeus and maybe Cal.

 

[Js250476]

The line is from here https://youtu.be/NJnGgVY8O8I?t=2m23s

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

The Js returns to help us. Excellent. I'll edit it into the OP soon enough. Your help was most appreciated.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Seems legit. The way timelines are created could definitely lead to at least a 2-C multiverse.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I am Barack Obama Darkanine, and I approve this message revision.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Hey Dark, long time no see.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

I think this all seems good. We'll probably need to contact some staff however.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I'm still not seeing how destroying the human world means destroying every single version of it. I get what you're saying, but I'm not seeing this is affecting all related timelines instead of just the mainstream timeline.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Because these are the past, present, and future of a space-time. Being Low 2-C based on what we have is affecting it's fabric. Affecting thr fabric of the multiverse is treated as whatsoever it contains. Here, if it's Equestria, it's all of it's past, present, and future as it's all within the Equestria World, not separated within other alternate dimensions, but all within one single space time and within it contains many futures. Before we assumed they are separated by means of alternate dimensions, but now it is different.

In Midnight's case it's similar. She was directly stated as capable of ending the human world and tearing it's fabric. So yes it would include these futures by virtue of how all encompassing her statement was. It was The humn world she was going to destroy , which within it contains many different futures.

 

[Lightbuster30]

If it's a single shared space-time then how is it anything more than low 2-C? Even Darkanine argued this once on another verse.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Because each past present and future contains within it it's own world / timeline. It is a multiverse within a timeline essentially, with it's own branching based on events that happen in the time. It is no different than how we treat verses with similar cosmology, and the likes of Dragon Ball which has it for similar reasoning, like Dinosaur King which quite literally is 2-B for the exact same reasoning. Unless contradicted, we assume timelines that contain timelines is 2-C at bare minimum , even after the timeline revisions that happened recently.

They don't share a space time, they are separate within Equestria"s World , just like how we separate the past, present, and future are each timeline separated from the other, so affecting reality is akin to affecting the Universe, but the only difference is Universe no longer applies to one timeline, but several within it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Reading through the thread, I think 2-C is reasonable.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Thank you Medeus.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Still have a few questions about this. There are a few things I'm still unsure about, especially with the space-time stuff. Unfortunately I'm not able to make arguments on it. The prime reasons being that my hard disk ****** itself up and I can't use my laptop until I replace it. And I'm in no mood to make serious arguments over the phone. We're supposed to be going to the city tomorrow, so hopefully sonething can be done.

 

[Antvasima]

My apologies, but we should generally not scale destroying a universal continuum to higher than Low 2-C simpy because it contains alternative future timelines. We need statements or other proof of directly affecting all of them at once, and not just via chain reaction.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

This isn't via chain reaction. None of the scans or feats even remotely hint at this... Absolutely none . This is just showing Equestria contains timelines, none of this ever even remotely implied I'm saying Starlight is 2-C via this... This is just proof Equestria contains timelines which would affect those capable of destroying it who previously were labeled as Low 2-C.

The Equestria world contains alternate timelines within them , and multiple statements state they can destroy it's totality of the world. Before it was Low 2-C from those who have feats of destroying the totality of the EQ-Verse due to the feats from as we had no evidence these worlds contained timelines within them and was just 1 , but now we have some so we are doing the most logical thing. It's like if previously a Multiverse Busting feat gets upgraded because we know the Multiverse contains more timelines. It's as simple as that.

 

[Antvasima]

If there are statements of destroying the multiverse, that is valid, yes. If there is just a statement of destroying a universe, it is definitely not, even if that universe branches off to different alternative futures. We do not scale other fictions like that, and cannot do it here. Sorry.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

There is no 'Sorry' here. These timelines are within the past, present, and future of the Equestria Universe, worlds within worlds but not an Alternate Dimension , but is essentially a timeline within a timeline. They are not depicted as being apart from the main Equestria World but directly within it, unlike the other examples where futures are portrayed completely outside of their world, these futures are directly still within their world, layered ontop of the other that can be traveled via time travel.

 

[Iisdude1]

There's nothing indicating that they share the same fabric or that they exist in one big timeline. They are still referred to as other worlds they were traveling through, there is also nothing that really supports them all being destroyed as twilight was only shown affecting the main and eq realities, the totality was probably referring to just those timelines.

Also, if they can travel through those timelines then why wasn't twilight opening portals to all the other timelines we were shown if she was affecting all of the past, present and future?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. I am not going to accept this any more than I would for any other case. It is extremely unreliable. You should ask other staff members to comment here.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Shockingly enough, I'm with Antvasima on this one.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I mean, I get the "fabric of reality" thing, but even in a standard multiverse, Universes linked via timelines are still separated on a 5d axis. They sorta have to be in order to be considered alternate universes. I'm really not seeing the timeline within a timeline you're seeing. Honestly it sorta sounds really complex.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the support.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, if it only says Universe, I don't think it's enough to assume it destroys the alternate timelines within it. I might have misunderstood that Equestria Girls takes place in an alternate reality from the traditional Pony World. Which destroying both of those worlds would be destroying 2 universes in that context. But I don't think the "Time stream" theory equates "Destroying the fabric of Reality" as the equivalent of ending the existence of every alternate timeline there is.

 

[Antvasima]

Mainly, we do not automatically rate all universe-destroyers in other fictions as being of a multiversal scale because the universe in question has alternate futures spreading from it. We consider affecting them by destroying their common past as a chain reaction similar to time travel.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I personally don't think the timelines of the future are dependent on the past in order to exist. The Universe Stygian corrupted is just a timeline where Starswirl and the Pillars died instead of sealing themselves. And Equestria in the present still existed despite Starlight's time shenanigans happening at the same time as the events of The Friendship Games.

I do not however, believe this means every single alternate timeline was being affected. I'm not seeing sufficient evidence of that. The fabric of reality Seed brought up earlier could easily mean the fabric of one singular reality/timeline.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. That is also a valid point.