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Devils Do Cry: Peak of Conspiracy

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I have been given permission to post this thread in staff discussion by @Deagonx. Do not comment unless you are staff or have been given permission to comment.

Background

In 2021, Devil May Cry: Peak of Combat was announced. It was to be a Chinese-only mobile game, officially licensed by Capcom and containing story elements that would cement it within the canonical timeline of DMC.

On July 22nd, 2021, the “Bloody Feast” game mode was released. Within this mode, there were reported to be numerous scans that would upgrade the verse significantly, such as beings lifting the entire Demon World, or souls being 9-dimensional and existing in a higher dimension.

These scans were quickly used to upgrade the verse. Problem is, the scans are fake.

The Problems

The scans used on VSBW for the upgrades seem fine at first glance, but upon investigation there are multiple discrepancies between the fake scans and the game’s actual content. For instance:
  • The Discrepancies In Loading Screen Tips
One of the most notable discrepancies is the tip screen. In the game the tip screen has actual tips that tell you about the corresponding location. For some odd reason, the scans on VSBW have random lore information, which is inconsistent with the gameplay.

In the actual gameplay, these screens consistently have tips that correspond to the location, and give you a description of that location. None of the VSBW scans do this, it’s just random lore information. We’ve looked through many loading screen traditions in the game and in authentic gameplay videos, and there’s never any lore.

Further, the lore information in the scans used for the upgrade can’t be found anywhere outside of VSBW, at all. Suffice to say, these are major red flags and points to forgery.
  • The Discrepancies In Language
When I say “Discrepancies in Language”, I’m specifically referring to how the scans themselves don’t sound like anything that would come from Devil May Cry’s writers as opposed to some debater typing them up and trying to pass them as stuff created by Hideki Kamiya.

For instance, the “narrative, void” stuff that if taken at face value makes DMC 1-A. They are full of battleboarding lingo that we never see in the series itself. For instance:
  1. Infinitely small compared to the demon world and its inhabitants, was part of the demon world until the arrival of the Demon King. The cradle of humanity is governed by all concepts of causality, probability and duality.”
  2. “Made of the thoughts, dreams and desires of the beings that inhabit the Void. With an infinity of countless dimensions, concepts and the mortal brain cannot quantify. A place that is all, nothing and unique at the same time. Its energy is the point of origin of reality, the phenomena existing in its interior, the energy used and the plot that manipulates the events of the worlds, everything begins and ends here.”
  3. “A dangerous place that transcends beyond the limits of Primordial Chaos, unstable, without laws and concepts of any kind. It is the habitat of creatures who are willing to observe, create and control every event of their imaginary plots for the sole purpose of satisfying their amusement, avoiding eternal boredom and new conflicts between them.”
  4. “The beings that inhabit it create and manipulate the plot of the worlds for their personal entertainment. It's like writing a story in their heads, as long as they don't imagine it, the show doesn't exist.”
How are you going to tell me with a straight face that this stuff is not written by a battleboarder?

This is setting aside the blatant inconsistencies this has with DMC’s own lore, such as the heavy focus on meta-narrative elements which DMC has never incorporated into its story in any way. The combination of the lore inconsistencies and use of tiering lingo uncommon to the series makes them a certain forgery.
  • The Discrepancies In Transparency
A discrepancy that isn’t necessarily tied to gameplay but mainly the claims surrounding PoC is the massive contradictions between the claims made by Sevil and the DMC supports on VSBW and the actual gameplay itself. For example, according to Sevil, obtaining scans for “Bloody Feast” is hard on the basis that it’s “time limited” when in actuality, that’s not entirely the case. The extent “Bloody Feast” is “time limited” in the sense that it’s a daily event, meaning that it's open for a small window each day, and that window is when you do your dailies and get rewards, just like any other mobile game. It just resets each day, which doesn't mean scans should be lost forever; Across all footage, you can see that there is no timer or anything that would indicate that it’s a limited time event that could disappear soon.

Across the 2 years of videos you can clearly see that bloody feast uses the same bosses over and over. This means that there are no time gated bosses or anything like that, meaning that the idea that they can’t get scans from this seemingly hard to access mode is somewhat suspect.

An announcement post for the mode can be found here, and it explains pretty well how it works (it’s in Chinese, obviously).

But What About the Discord Mods?

Whenever one brings into question the validity of the stuff used for PoC on Vs Battle Wiki, many of the supporters are quick to point towards the official discord that exists for PoC. In that server, there are people who supposedly have ties to the development of the game and can verify the existence of the scans used. In theory, this would be fine, but the problem is that the sources that many of the DMC folks have used are dubious at best, for the simple reason that their credentials are insufficient.

The supposed devs of PoC in the official discord have never once given their actual credentials or proven their identities, and have explicitly stated they don’t work on the Chinese version of PoC. Another mod frequently used as a source, Revolthell, is just a mod and is not a dev in any capacity (they clearly state this in their server roles lol), and so his words should not be used as gospel. His twitter account also has multiple posts showing he has no insider knowledge on the game.

Further, many of their responses to questions are answered with “maybes” or uncertain responses, implying that they aren’t 100% filled in as far as the PoC stuff goes. Their input should clearly be taken with a grain of salt. Even if we did take their claims at face value, we’d run into a major contradiction. According to them, the scans are real, but they also claimed that the global version would have everything the Chinese version did… except the global version obviously lacked the scans.

But What About the Footage?

As shown here and here, there exist a small number of videos that depict a player entering the Bloody Feast mode, with the loading screen displaying the supposed scans.

However, we can reasonably say that this footage is faked. The main issue is how no other footage can corroborate what is shown here; Countless videos of Bloody Feast gameplay exist on Bilibili, many of which showcase the same boss fight as shown in the 9D soul scans. However, none of those videos show the scans in question - rather, they show a rather generic team display, showing who you’re playing with and what character they’re playing as. This was originally claimed to be added in a later update, but this is not the case, as we can see from the dates these videos were uploaded. Some of these gameplay videos are dated July 23rd, 2021. This is a single day after the release of Bloody Feast, meaning the team display was in the game from Bloody Feast mode’s launch all the way until days before it was closed prior to the 2.0 update. The inverse is true as well. It’s unlikely that this content was added later, because we have gameplay videos from around the time the “scans” were dropped (October 2021), ranging from September to November 2021, and none of those showcase the scans, either. So we can reasonably say that no gameplay footage actually confirms the existence of these scans.

These videos also showcase an odd quirk of PoC’s loading screens. See, when the game loads, it usually loads the UI on the right side first (such as the “now loading” text), leaving the right side blank. The right side then displays a piece of related artwork shortly after. You can go frame by frame in any video and see that this is how it works; I could gladly give more examples from the videos linked above. Basically, there’s always a gap between the “now loading” text and the artwork on the right side of the screen. This can be displayed in countless videos, all from 1.0, regardless of the date posted. It’s simply how the game’s loading screens work. However, the supposed video proof of these scans doesn’t display these properties - The “now loading” text and the artwork appear on the same frame. This is a small discrepancy, but on top of everything else, helps to solidify that the evidence at hand is completely incongruent with everything the actual game shows.

Addressing Potential Counterpoints
  • “The loading screens were in the game, however they were removed during global release”
There’s an issue with this argument, and it’s that we are playing on the assumption that one version has more weight than the other. Basic logic points us that the global release should hold more credibility than one version that, not only didn’t make it to the final release, but also, isn’t something that we can confirm if is indeed real or not.

And again, this is if we are following the same thread of considering this point as a truth, rather than considering this as just an unreliable claim (which it is).
  • “The loading screens are indeed real, however they are on a different build of the game”
For some context behind this, the 1.0 Chinese version of PoC was released through both Bilibili and TapTap. It has been claimed that the scans are only in one version of the game (Bilibili) and not the other. The evidence of the differences between the two are showcased here and here. You can probably notice the issue - the only discernible difference is in the login screens. Despite looking into it more, there is 0 documentation on any version differences aside from that. This makes sense if you think about it for a moment; Bilibili and TapTap merely distribute games, much like the Google Play Store or App Store. So while two different companies would logically have different login screens in order to use their services, there’s no reason why the game itself would have any gameplay or lore differences between versions, in the same way that FGO has the same lore and mechanics regardless of whether you get it from the App Store or Google Play Store (even if the way you log into those services differs).

Of course, there’s another reason why this doesn’t make sense, and it’s PoC’s nature as a game. PoC is a live-service mobile game, meaning it requires constant updates and maintenance. Doing that as a game company is hard enough as it is - maintaining two separate versions of the game and arbitrarily shuffling off all the lore into only one version (changing the loading screen UI to be less coherent in the process) is, from a development standpoint, fucking insane.

Another issue here is one of quantity - there are dozens of videos of Bloody Feast, none of which show the scans and all consistently showing the same loading screen, same gameplay, and same UI. Are we really supposed to believe that every single recording of this game that contradicts the scans - of which there are dozens if not hundreds - just so happens to be from one specific version, while only the DMC supporters have recorded the version that has the scans?
  • “We can’t just ignore IMPORTANT INFORMATION because there are doubts about it!”
Same way we can’t just let alone the information and pretend it to be true, just because it’s “important.” It doesn’t matter if the scans have “value” to the lore of the franchise, if it can’t be confirmed, we cannot accept it. This is like saying “the Abyssal Archives recollected a lot of information from Dark Souls, so it should be treated as canon.” That’s not how it works at all.
  • “We should wait until the official release comes to make any changes”
And I agree… another reason why the scans should be removed and not used as arguments, because it’s unfinished information, and we don't even know if they are going to appear officially or not, or if they are even real.
  • “We recorded everything when we played it. Obviously this is real!”
And I also have recorded scans confirming that Luigi is in Mario 64 when I played it yesterday, but no one else saw it until now. A recording as evidence is fine - it’s not fine when nobody is able to verify it and it directly contradicts in-game information.
  • “We don’t know chinese. Why are we going to manipulate anything at all?”
It’s fairly easy to get stuff translated these days - prior to the advent of online translators like Deepl, this would’ve been a more believable argument. Hell, we have multiple users on this site who converse and debate solely through the use of online translators, because they aren’t fluent in English. Faking the equivalent of a couple of paragraphs is a piece of cake in comparison. Of course, this is ignoring the fact that one could just lie about what languages they know or ask someone who does know Chinese to do the translations for them.
  • "Hitchens Razor"
This is quite hilarious when the ones who need to prove something are the scalers, not us. We have a lot of evidences and arguments that points out the scans are indeed fake, or at very least outdated, while the points to support their veracity are just assumptions, fallacies, anecdotes, and ridiculous pleas to the so-called developers (seriously guys, if you want to hold on to some fragment of dignity, please don’t do this).

TL;DR

The PoC scans are almost certainly fake for the following reasons:
-They are wildly inconsistent with everything else in the game.
-No gameplay footage outside of what’s been provided by DMC supporters shows these scans.
-DMC supporters cannot substantiate where the scans even come from, or the nature of the source in question.
-The only official source confirming them as real does not have sufficient knowledge or authority, and the scans being real would contradict another claim made by that source.
-The videos are clearly edited to some degree.

Conclusion

So what should be done now that we can confidently claim that PoC’s high end claims are bunk? For starters, those who participated in the creation and spreading of the fake scans - @Galens and @Sevil Natas, respectively - should be banned indefinitely. All content relating to PoC should, for the time being, be deleted - the game does have some usable content, but until that content can be independently verified to be real, it’s better to be cautious and not run the risk of hosting fabricated content. I also believe it’s reasonable to disallow the use of the 1.0 version of the game entirely. It’s no longer online, nobody can access it, which means any information from it is subject to be faked like the scans shown above. Everything from 2.0 is fine, as long as it’s met with a heavy degree of skepticism and scrutiny.
 
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Having just gotten into Devil May Cry recently, this is... one hell of a pill to swallow, to say the least. What compels people to go this far for powerscaling?

That being said, I think this does all line up. It seems obvious to me that the scans were forged, given all this evidence, so I agree with not using any PoC 1.0 content. As for those that used such scans to push for DMC upgrades, an indefinite ban makes sense considering this is actively destabilizing the wiki's reliability and seems to have very much been done knowingly (I was gaslit into believing in 9-D DMC for the longest time).

So overall, I agree with all the proposals of this thread.
 
These videos also showcase an odd quirk of PoC’s loading screens. See, when the game loads, it usually loads the UI on the right side first (such as the “now loading” text), leaving the right side blank. The right side then displays a piece of related artwork shortly after. You can go frame by frame in any video and see that this is how it works; I could gladly give more examples from the videos linked above. Basically, there’s always a gap between the “now loading” text and the artwork on the right side of the screen. This can be displayed in countless videos, all from 1.0, regardless of the date posted. It’s simply how the game’s loading screens work. However, the supposed video proof of these scans doesn’t display these properties - The “now loading” text and the artwork appear on the same frame. This is a small discrepancy
I would actually say this isn’t a small discrepancy, this is huge. A clear cut example of video editing in the only video with the scans, that pretty much convinces me they are completely fake.
 
Okay, this makes sense, but do we have concrete evidence that the 2 members accused of faking the scans actually did it? I know the OP emphasizes that they are only found on VSB and not anywhere else, but maybe they were given by someone else to those 2 to use, knowing that they are fake or not.

It wouldn't be bad to hear the other side's defense either, but I must say that the evidence put forward by the OP is too concrete and evidential.
 
As suspicious as these scans are I'll admit, I'd advise we'd wait for Sevil to have a chance to comment since he never was the person who sent the scans to the group in the first place, he just took the scans and used it to buff the verse out of excitement despite what some of us warned him about. Galens I'm not sure if he's gonna be able to comment given he appears once in a blue moon.
 
I agree, but we should likely handle that in RVR.
I'm somewhat iffy on this because while on the one hand, that is typically very much the place to do it, on the other hand, the OP is calling for their ban in this thread

Don't really mind either way though tbh. Honestly, the call for their ban should've been handled separately imo
 
Okay, this makes sense, but do we have concrete evidence that the 2 members accused of faking the scans actually did it? I know the OP emphasizes that they are only found on VSB and not anywhere else, but maybe they were given by someone else to those 2 to use, knowing that they are fake or not.
The DMC supporters themselves admit that @Galens was the one who recorded the scans (as admitted here; "...but the one who gives us the Scans [Galens in this case]). If he's not the source, then the DMC supporters have some explaining to do. As for Sevil, we should obviously let him comment but given how heavily he's pushed for PoC stuff (including straight up begging the global devs to include the scans), I'd say there's good reason for suspicion.

I'm somewhat iffy on this because while on the one hand, that is typically very much the place to do it, on the other hand, the OP is calling for their ban in this thread

Don't really mind either way though tbh. Honestly, the call for their ban should've been handled separately imo
We can handle it in the RVR if tackling it here would derail too much.
 
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My only concern about handling it here is if it will detract from settling the matter of the scans. However it seems like we are headed towards unanimous agreement that they were faked in which case that's moot.
 
We can handle it in the RVR if tackling it here would derail too much.
My only concern about handling it here is if it will detract from settling the matter of the scans. However it seems like we are headed towards unanimous agreement that they were faked in which case that's moot.
Yeah because it's kinda already reached the point of unanimous agreement, I'm inclined to say it's probably fine either way. Ideally, I would've preferred if the matter of the scans was handled here, then in the RVR we could handle the matter of Galens and Sevil, but I don't think it matters too much by this point

I don't see what kinda explanation you could pull out for spreading faked scans anyway
 
Yeah, we can only punish people for making the scans, we can't punish people just for collecting them especially if they did not even know the scans were fake. Though if someone from the community was behind making fake scans, that is indeed a serious violation.
 
From what I can gather, the ratings themselves seem to be fine, but some scans need to go and others need to be put in their place (I see a whole blog linked for the Immeasurable LS part and it doesn't use anything from PoC)

Immeasurable speed is also well-sourced without any PoC shenanigans so that's fine too I believe
 
Do not attempt to revise the statistics and abilities of Devil May Cry characters based on scans from Version 1.0 of the mobile game Peak of Combat. This version is no longer accessible for any users, and as a result, scans from it are highly subject to fabrication and such authenticity is difficult to verify. In addition, while it is acceptable to use evidence from Peak of Combat for Version 2.0 onwards, it should be approached with a reasonable degree of scrutiny.

This is just a short draft I came up with. Suggestions to change this are welcome if it's agreed on to put in a Discussion Rule, or this can be axed if it's decided that a Discussion Rule isn't necessary.
 
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I got permission to comment from @Dereck03

Sorry comment on phone is bad and i accidently click post button

Anyway, as the verse supporter i agree with this thread and a discussion rule for the PoC 1.0 version, there are blatant evidences of fake scans, about Sevil and Glan, i think we can give them the benefit of doubt let them say on a different thread, this thread should just be focus on scans matter

Edit: I can't believe i got tricked into believing and arguing for these scans before, i'm ashamed
 
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May I have scans and source links to verify how real and fake the claims from both sides are? Thanks.




Do not attempt to revise the statistics and abilities of Devil May Cry characters based on scans from Version 1.0 of the mobile game Peak of Combat. This version is no longer accessible for any users, and as a result, scans from it are most likely fabricated highly subject to fabrication and such authenticity is difficult to verify. In addition, while it is acceptable to use evidence from Peak of Combat for Version 2.0 onwards, it should be approached with a reasonable degree of scrutiny.

Should the claim by OP has been verified, I have amended (for grammar) the new discussion rules on DMC for everyone.
 
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Full disclosure - I was informed in advance this thread would be made by Deagonx.

Right now, I want to hear from Galens and Sevil Natas regarding this situation. To put it simply, I consider the chance that the scans have not been faked to be extraordinarily unlikely. However, as contrived and unreasonable as they may be, there are circumstances in which everything in the OP could be true while the scans are still real - I've been sifting through the OP for a while now, and while I believe the scans were indeed faked, it is not an absolute. There are hypothetical alternate explanations for the issues mentioned that prevent us from deducing our verdict here, explanations that I intend to investigate more thoroughly and (likely) rule out. Furthermore, whether this was an intentional act by Galens and/or Sevil, or if they were misled as well, remains to be seen.

I could not, in good conscience, advocate for taking action on such serious accusations without first allowing the accused to speak on their own behalf. I would ask that we wait for Galens and Sevil to speak on this thread before reaching a verdict.
 
To be fair (I mean really objective), even if the scans are not fake, they cannot be verified, hence a no-go is claimed by the OP.

May I have scans and source links to verify how real and fake the claims from both sides are? Thanks.





Should the claim by OP has been verified, I have amended (for grammar) the new discussion rules on DMC for everyone.
And why I made amendments to better reflect the situation and to better guide future edit directions.
 
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I would like to ask that we keep G1 or Cyber out of this, yeah.

Could you edit or delete this? Aside from Cyber not wanting to be mentioned here, this entire post is derailing. We do not need to bring off site blogs into this for any reason.
Given the comment is a complete derail and reflects the opinion of someone who has worked on the same blogs not to be used as part of this as evidence, I have taken the liberty of editing the comment.
 
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