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Ultima_Reality
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  • I've a question about 1-A via transcend dimension and being source of dimensions
    Each of the Kamen Rider (the abstract power within them) is the axis root of their worlds/dimensions and there's even one have the fundamental abstract power that transcend the dimensions. So do they need to be the root of all dimensions to be 1-A or being source of dimensions in their territories is enough?

    Scan
    Kamen Rider is the axis of each world and protects each world. The rider's power, the source of that power, seems to be a mysterious power latent in those who transform into Kamen Riders. When Sougo decides to fight, the Rider's power is poured into the Blank Watch, and just like the Zi-O Ride Watch was created, it is thought that by showing the will and actions befitting a Rider, the transformer himself manifests itself.

    The rider's power is what protects each world, so the world of Tsukuyomi where riders do not exist has come to a time of destruction. It is also thought that each world depends on the rider's power, and when the rider's power moves to another world, the world itself seems to move. As a result, the world of each riders may have fused with Sougo's world as Another Watch and Ridewatch with the power of riders gathered in Sougo's world. However, there were various discrepancies in this fusion, which caused the distortion of space-time. As a result, Gatack's Kagami, while still having memories of Kabuto's world where the meteorite fell in Shibuya, seems to have existed in Sougo's world where the meteorite did not fall in Shibuya.
    Scan
    And on this day in 2019. He has taken my Demon King and Tsukuyomi-kun to the other dimension where Tsukuyomi-kun and Swartz were born —— the world where they existed as a royal family.
    The〝Aurora Curtain〟.
    Kamen Rider Decade's『ability to surpass the barriers of worlds』.
    That is the fundamental power that makes him a transcender of time and dimensions, and a traveler of worlds.
    —— After that, my Demon King and Tsukuyomi-kun went to the space-time where Tsukuyomi was as a young girl.
    If I remember correctly, I was with them in Kujigoji-DO at the time of this description of the『True Ohma Advent Calendar』, but I don’t remember that My Lord took the Decade Ridewatch from the Ridewatch Daizer where he kept the Watch.
    What we seek is here, as it should be——.
    「Do you get it now, New Demon King?」
    「Well......, kinda」
    「Kinda is a good sign for now」
    When dealing with time travel narratives, the most troublesome and tedious task is explaining events that occur in these two dimensions yet are causally related. Goodness, who even started thinking about tackling such a thing?
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    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    No, "transcender of dimensions" is pretty obviously just talking about how he can travel between different universes.
    Some question

    What if you have a power that literally qualitative superior over entire world beyond the quantitave superiority entirely. I mean not you but your power, and this power not only an "energy" but a abstraction

    Are you still 1A???
    “This appears to be born at least in part due to a misunderstanding of what Dimensional Theory is.

    Dimensional Theory deals with actually scientific theories about the dimensionality of our cosmology and the nature of the dimensions within it. This is not Infinite Dimensional, this is simply 11-D in accordance with M-Theory.
    It also does not say it is beyond dimensions altogether in the first place.

    神秘学の語るところによれば、この世界の外側には次元論の頂点に在る“力”があるという。
    あらゆる出来事の発端とされる座標。それが、すべての魔術師の悲願たる『根源の渦』……万物の始まりにして終焉しゅうえん、この世の全てを記録し、この世の全てを創造できるという神の座である。

    The term used here is 頂点 which refers to a peak or summit or vertex. Not something beyond, but rather something still part of it, but just at a point where nothing is higher. This still only supports the idea of Eleven Dimensions at maximum.”



    What do you have to say regarding this part as mentioned here by a different person?



    Also I rather stay out of Nasuverse CRTs in general as I already getting headaches regarding the cosmology aspect due to the sheer amount of info to go through
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    HammerStrikes219
    HammerStrikes219
    Also I don’t get the issue with Shiki as it is confirmed multiple times. That Void Shiki (One with the root personality) is still the person as regular Shiki from KnK.

    Also even FGO (2015) profile has confirmed that Void Shiki is the same person, but different personality.

    I don’t get what my fellow Nasuverse supporters are getting at with the Shiki’s angle.


    Fan Translation:The same person as the girl who wears a leather jacket over a kimono, Ryōgi Shiki.
    However, she has a different personality.
    If Ryōgi Shiki is a girl with the name, 「Shiki」, this individual is a woman with the name, 「Ryōgi Shiki」.
    The personality of the body itself, embodying 「 」 that represents the beginning.
    She slumbers within Shiki from her birth to her death.”
    HammerStrikes219
    HammerStrikes219
    Another potential issue regarding the logic used by my fellow Nasuverse supporters is the Grail System already summon servants, copies of the original Heroic spirits that is summoned by the Grail System.

    Difference between Heroic Spirits and Servants
    Heroic Spirits were Heroes who have left behind great feats in legends after death and become subjects of belief.
    Normally, a Heroic Spirit is summoned by the world as power that protects humans.
    The ones summoned by humans are Servants. However, Heroic Spirits cannot be controlled by humans, and to summon them, the Holy Grail or something with power of that sort must be used.
    The Servant system of Fuyuki summons Heroic Spirits with the power of the Greater Grail. Heroic Spirits summoned as Servants are like "emanations", copies created using the information of the main body of the Heroic Servant.”


    It is from Fate/Complete Material III book in regards to the Heroic Spirits and also what Deagonx is referring to when he used the image of the Throne of Heroes.
    HammerStrikes219
    HammerStrikes219
    Also, the point that the hole leads to the Throne of Heroes is completely unsupported by any text as the hole being lead to the Root, not the Throne of Heroes.

    Even if we used the logic demonstrated by my fellow Nasuverse Supporters, this fails to address the issue of the Throne of Heroes already being used to summon servants.

    Also IIRC, the Holy Grail War does technically involved a grail being considered a “wishing machine” so to speak so it is arbitrary imo that the hole leads to only the Throne of Heroes instead of the Root which I completely and utterly disagree with this logic of the hole leading to the Throne of Heroes.
    I know it's a stupid question.
    That character A R>F put B character with tier low1A
    Character A Should be 1-A right?
    Realabod
    Realabod
    huh??? like can you rephrase it please.
    hello, does this qualify for low 1-A?
    need another help with this
    Ultima now will the show start for level 2? I'm anxiously waiting, make Dragon Ball have 6 space-times again and all of them have the size low 2-C ^⁠⁠_⁠^
    So, Ultima, does Warhammer remain the same on the Cosmology end of things? Just asking to be sure

    Hi, just wondering if this is an OK thread question to ask the community at large? (mostly cause I'm trying to figure out when the site is most active/when most of the members are active) (And if you don't mind perhaps you could help me invite other people to contribute to the thread?)

    I would like your thoughts on this. (It's partially inspired, motive-wise, by your suggestion on Tier Revisions, particularly the Tier 0 and 1 Revision Threads)
    Ultima, good morning!


    Well, in this crt it's talking about dimensional barriers, if you could take the time to help us I would appreciate it, if you could look at the counter arguments that would be good too
    Hi Ultima, what you thought on this post regarding the issue that seem to heat if Demmateis works will be split from Main cosmology.
    No to say, all this stuffs like "Worlds within world" "A universe is a multiverses to all of other universe of possibilities" "Omniverse" "A lager thought is contained by another larger thought" is more of the same idea but explained in different tone.

    Every writers including him adopted this idea into their works. Dematteis works specifically explained this R>F Hierarchy of Universes in more detail, like this phrase "World within world" which was used by every writers.

    Even without Dematteis, the scale of Main cosmology will still remain the same. Like I said above, the Main cosmology still has the its own of infinite universe contained by universe which in turn contained by multiverse. To understand what im saying, The Superflow encompassed the Earth-616 and other alternates universes, all of choices maked in universes like Earth-616 would result in branching out Earth-616-1, Earth-616-2 and infinite which Earth-616 encompasses them. Then in turn Earth-616-1 can also branch another infinite universe of possibilities and this go on infinitly just like this statement. So no in my point of view.

    "As above, so below"
    Hello me and some friends have been arguing about R>F transcendence and I have 2 questions I would love to hear your opinion about.

    • First, If there is a infinite R>F transcendence in this case reality and dream. Will the tier change if the hierarchy go up or down? I am wondering since i think it is just a perspective.
    • Second, The size of the R>F should be irrelevant right? Since the argument is being made that a "dream" is comparable in size to "reality" is a anti-feat for the R>F.

    Thank you for your time.
    Hello.
    In this cutscene from Honkai,a character is inside of a higher dimensional plane, and punches their way through a wall because they got sealed off from a lot of it (The feat starts at 2:15). Is this AP, HDM, or something else?
    Hello.
    I have some questions regarding "exotic abilities"
    Question 1
    Character A is said to be the personification of death. A can also manipulate death and can continue to exist as long as death remains. What does A qualify for?
    1. Immortality type 8
    2. Abstract existence type 2
    3. Conceptual manipulation (don't know what type)
    Question 2
    Character B created Character A (the one in the first question). Does that qualify for Conceptual manipulation?

    Would appreciate your response
    Realabod
    Realabod
    all of them
    not really you can argue and it depends on what character A is
    Sor to distrib you but can dimensionless existence type 3 (which was removed in past) return in this new tiering?
    In my opinion, that will be a great way to describe outerversal (a few changing old definitions are obviously needed)
    Hello!
    Sorry for bothering again haha.
    I know you are probably super busy with the pages and applying the changes + all the people asking questions.
    so once again pardon me for being rude!
    I had several questions

    1- I checked the new tier system page and was confused about two stuff. A) so are cardinals such as Berkeley and Mahlo High 1-B +? only Absolute infinity and T4 multiverse and similar are low outer?
    2- I have seen T4 multiverse in both low 1-A and High 1-A+, How? this doesn't make sense to me.
    3- from my understanding, a standard reactive evolution and adaptation can NOT make a being reach higher qualitative levels. (For example five layers into outer cannot each six layers into outer via reactive evolution)
    4- is it still possible for a being to have a higher qualitative hax while that being is lesser than it? (EX a 2D being having High 1-A hax)
    5- also just to be clear, High 1-A+ stands for anything such as infinite layers into higher outerversal up to even peak of high outerversal which can be achieved with EMR yes?

    Now I also have three recommendations
    1- I think we should have a new large size (type 12) for beings that are above quantities and meta quantity as a whole thus entering a qualitative size.
    2- majority of high tier pages must be changed. I'm asking please have the team writing those pages to be more clear where does a specific scan scales to hahaha.
    3- return of irrelevant speed?

    I would appreciate alot if you would answer these (obviously when you are free and have time don't want to be a headache)
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    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    1. Yeah.

    2. Depends on whether the verse counts the laws of logic as among the mathematical conditions that might cause a universe to be instantiated in it.

    3. Yeah. Unless it falls under the stipulations in the FAQ.

    4. Under certain stipulations.

    5. No, infinite layers into High 1-A is not High 1-A+
    _________

    1. Probably.

    2. Sure.

    3. Maybe.
    Elyartaker
    Elyartaker
    so High 1-A+ is that "meta meta meta meta and so on" thing? kinda like "absolute Infinity" layers into High 1-A hahaha
    Also if a verse counts laws of logic then it will have a High 1-A+ T4 multiverse?
    also thank you for answering!
    Hey there, I’m not sure if you’ve spoken to Bobsican about matters regarding Kingdom Hearts, but I have some inquiries about the verse possibly reaching High 1-A.

    Within the verse, there exists a plane of existence called “the chasm of dreams.” In which, it was stated that one couldn’t reach said plain no matter how many dreams within dreams they dived into (“F>R”). My first question is whether being unreachable by any set of R>F “distance” constitutes High 1-A.

    My second question is in regard to the verses concept of Light and Darkness. The 2 primordial universal energy sources that compose the cosmology, even down to individuals’ abstract conceptual existences (their Hearts).

    I bring this up because of a statement presented likenening and describing the process of diving into dreams within dreams as diving into “darkness within darkness.” Would this imply Darkness (and therefore Light) as High 1-A via encompassing the Chasm of dreams as a whole, and transcending an infinite dream within dream hierarchy?

    Your input would be greatly appreciated, as the expert on such matters.
    Another doubt. A character whose existence precedes his own fictional work, where he himself wished to create It. Does this set it to R>f? Things like threatening the writers and interacting with the "real world" too. All this evidence leads to an R>f of level 1-A, right?
    Hey, could you take a look at these Lord of the Mysteries Revisions? I was also told you said that the Original Creator from LOTM could reach 1-A with the new system.


    Thank you 🙏
    Hey, hope you don't mind, but I was curious about High 1-A+ after reading through some of the tiering system revisions.

    As far as I'm aware, 2 things stuck out to me.
    The apex of this tier, represented also by a "+" modifier (High 1-A+), corresponds to characters whose power encompasses meta-qualities, meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-meta-qualities, and any and all conceivable extensions of this process.
    As well as being capable of actualizing any arbitrarily large world or embodying the framework of such worlds. Basically embodying the collection of all possible worlds.

    So, a thought occurred to me. What if a character exceeds all conceivable extensions of the process of encompassing meta-qualities and so on, but they can't necessarily actualize any possible world. They just have power beyond all extensions of the aforementioned process.

    I was kinda wondering how it would go if High 1-A was regulated to "to characters whose power encompasses meta-qualities, meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-meta-qualities, and any and all conceivable extensions of this process."

    And high 1-A+ would be demiurgic figures who could either actualize any world or embody all possible worlds.
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    So, a thought occurred to me. What if a character exceeds all conceivable extensions of the process of encompassing meta-qualities and so on, but they can't necessarily actualize any possible world. They just have power beyond all extensions of the aforementioned process.

    I was kinda wondering how it would go if High 1-A was regulated to "to characters whose power encompasses meta-qualities, meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-meta-qualities, and any and all conceivable extensions of this process."
    They'd be High 1-A+ as well, just with a deficient causal power. Either way, you'd be at the limit point of the process of stacking "-qualities."
    Lightbuster30
    Lightbuster30
    Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't sure whether or not such a limit would warrant a downgrade for such characters. But it makes sense when you put it that way.
    Hello, sorry to bother you but could you please take a look at this thread

    Would this be BDE1 or BDE2, or anything at that?

    「ハハハ、それはね、ボクが全知全能なんかじゃないからさ。生まれた時は、ボクの意思だけがあった。その時は満たされていて、欠けたるものなど何一つなかった。完全無欠、〝全なる一〟──つまり、ボクしかいない世界だったんだ。そんなの、つまらないだろう?」 なるほどと、ギィは思った。 ギィだから、理解出来た。 つまりヴェルダナーヴァは、自らの意思で〝全知全能〟を捨てたのだ、と。
    I'm not at all omniscient or omnipotent, you know. When I was born, all that existed was my will. It was complete, fully, not a piece missing to it, I was the only one in the world, the “all-inclusive one”-that is, the only one in the world. Wouldn't that be boring?
    I see, Guy thought. Because it was Guy, he understood. In other words, Veldanava gave up “omniscience and omnipotence” of his own volition.

    Note : The character named Veldanava is not the same thing as this All-inclusive entity, they exist independently of each other but have a kind of a special connection
    If you have some time, could you comment here, please?
    Can you give some input here
    I have one very wierd question, would Brahman from Hinduism qualify for tier 0?
    Can you give your input here
    Hi, sorry to bother you again but this topic is something I need to wrap my head around for LotR.

    "Are there any 'bounds to a writer's job' except those imposed by his own finiteness? No bounds, but the laws of contradiction, I should think."

    This quote was used to describe the role of the Sub-Creator rather than the Creator I believe, as in Tolkien himself and other authors in the "Real World", this cosmologically puts the "Real World" as High 1-A+

    The "Real World" is viewed by Eru as fiction again, being that Eru is author of even "us" and that's wonderful support for Tier 0.

    However, the "Primary Reality" that the Ainur reside in is described as, at the very least, on par with the "Real World" in existence if not above it (depending on how literally the Timeless Halls are Eru's abode. It's the awkward situation of Seraphim around God's Throne sort of thing).

    The Ainur in their origin at the very least rival "authors" in terms of existence (with the Valar being granted titles as Sub-Creators in their own right, albeit in reference to their work in making the material world).

    So going back to my earlier rushed reactionary comment, would this result in the entire race (and the many existing sub-creators) being High 1-A+ in origin? Was it not only possible for only 1 character to be High 1-A+ per verse?

    Of course this is assuming that the transferring of the quote to Sub-Creators doesn't shake the quote's usability too much.
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