Shadow Fight Upgrade That Should Have Been Done In The Past

[Jeeeeepil123]

Seeing this thread here have been gone quite over a month without any progress, i am deciding to make a new one in hope to gather more input (i also have more justification to strengthen the fact)

I already created a cosmology pages for all of the arguments, the only thing is now to decide which character that should get scaled into:

• Tenebris obviously should be scaled to the portal, as he is literally the one who created the structure.
• Shadow will be scaled to Tenebris for a reason that he can beats him, even though Tenebris were holding back to against a mortals like Shadow
• The Immortals should be scaled too, atleast being Low 2-C as Tenebris himself stated that they too are responsible on destroying the worlds using the portals
• Architect should be scaled to Real World (Self-Explanatory)

Agree: ActuallySpaceMan42, Catzlaflame (Low 2-C & 2-B)
Neutral:
Disagree: Catzlaflame (Low 1-C)

 

[Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer]

Just wondering, why is The Descendant not higher or equal to Shadow or Shadow Mind? (Considering that the player controls them in SF3, and therefore they have canonically defeated Shadow and Shadow Mind, they should be equal or stronger?)
(This is within the main series though, not the spin off)

 

[AstraOmega]

Melihat thread ini sudah berjalan lebih dari sebulan tanpa kemajuan apa pun, saya memutuskan untuk membuat thread baru dengan harapan dapat mengumpulkan lebih banyak masukan (saya juga memiliki justifikasi lebih untuk memperkuat fakta)

Saya sudah membuat halaman kosmologi untuk semua argumen, satu-satunya hal sekarang adalah memutuskan karakter mana yang harus ditingkatkan:

• Tenebris jelas harus diperluas ke portal, karena dialah yang sebenarnya menciptakan struktur tersebut .
• Shadow akan ditingkatkan ke Tenebris karena suatu alasan dia bisa mengalahkannya, meskipun Tenebris menahan diri untuk melawan manusia seperti Shadow
• The Immortals juga harus ditingkatkan, setidaknya menjadi Low 2-C karena Tenebris sendiri menyatakan bahwa mereka juga bertanggung jawab menghancurkan dunia menggunakan portal
• Arsitek harus disesuaikan dengan dunia nyata (Penjelasan Diri)

Dejavu

 

[Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer]

Dejavu

Why is it in Bahasa Indonesia/Melayu?

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Considering that the player controls them in SF3, and therefore they have canonically defeated Shadow and Shadow Mind

It was temporary, iirc.
You can ask SF3 stuff to @Richard5128pm

 

[Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer]

It was temporary, iirc.
You can ask SF3 stuff to @Richard5128pm

OK, thanks for the help.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Bump

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Don't know the verse, but if I understand what I read properly I suppose Low 2-C, 2-B, and Low 1-C are fine.

 

[Catzlaflame]

The first scan you link is broken which is the one linked to the words “a portal.” The machine translations should be double checked for accuracy.

Low 2-C and 2-B is fine I guess. Still a bit suspicious, but I can’t certainly say I have an issue.

Low 1-C I completely disagree with. Reading through the scans, most everything felt extremely hyperbolic to me. To quell any suspicion, I looked into the lore a bit to learn that this character was actually beaten by the cast? How would that happen if he has a R>F relationship over them? Additionally, the summary says that: “invites him to become one of his stage actors” If he’s inviting characters to be actors, that makes the whole theatrics dynamic seem a lot more literal. So yea, hard disagree.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

The first scan you link is broken which is the one linked to the words “a portal.” The machine translations should be double checked for accuracy.

Oh my apologies, i have fixed it.
Here is the image so you don't have to re-checked the page, its not that important tho.
The MTL have been double-checked and is already been put in the profile long before this Cosmology Page is created, i'm just taking one of them.

Low 2-C and 2-B is fine I guess. Still a bit suspicious, but I can’t certainly say I have an issue.

Alright then

Low 1-C I completely disagree with. Reading through the scans, most everything felt extremely hyperbolic to me. To quell any suspicion, I looked into the lore a bit to learn that this character was actually beaten by the cast? How would that happen if he has a R>F relationship over them? Additionally, the summary says that: “invites him to become one of his stage actors” If he’s inviting characters to be actors, that makes the whole theatrics dynamic seem a lot more literal. So yea, hard disagree.

How is it hyperbolic when all of the scan seems to be consistent? Notifications, "Fantasy Narrative", Fourth Wall, Screewriter etc etc.
He gets beaten is because he's down inside the fiction world with immersion (iirc, isn't this ability make the character weaker technically?), the same like Architect did when he challenges Shadow.

The reason why he's "inviting" is because his in-character is, a humble servant of arts... he didn't manipulate Shadow first-hand is not because he can't, he absolutely can, as he is from the Real World, talking freely to the Fiction World... Its even been proved further that he can applies any changes to the world with the scale of "before creation", because in truth is Shadow Fight 2 World is just a script.
He really respect arts so hard that he follows Shadow's rules of fighting, even if its making him a slave... he will always follow that direction.

"But, WHY did he lose??"
Just like i said above, Puppeteer respects very hard about arts... and the ultimate reason why lose (in the fictional realm) is because Shadow's role is a Hero, and you know what is a hero means... they always win (this could be another reason why he can win against Tenebris lmao, its just so hard to believe he can actually defeats Tenebris by hand), and Puppeteer follows this idea.

And the reason why he's asking Shadow particularly is because Shadow is the only one who understands his plot without any directing from him.

Although, i think for the most part is because Shadow is unbound to the real world being... not in literal meaning tho, as Architect can still control him and stated that "Everything is possible in the creator's head" a blatant fact that he did not lose superiority over Shadow.
From what i understand, they (the real world being) made an agreement on Shadow's favor... they can still control him, but chose not to.

Conclusion is:
1. Puppeteer can be harmed if he is in the fictional world (like physically)
2. Puppeteer have the characteristic of overly obsessed with arts, as he follows all the rules no matter if he's in a low position... Mean is, he will not using his authority for the sake of aesthethics art.
3. They've made an agreement on not toying Shadow's life, and this Puppeteer need his consent first to make a plot involving him.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Don't know the verse, but if I understand what I read properly I suppose Low 2-C, 2-B, and Low 1-C are fine.

Noted.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Low 1-C I completely disagree with. Reading through the scans, most everything felt extremely hyperbolic to me. To quell any suspicion, I looked into the lore a bit to learn that this character was actually beaten by the cast? How would that happen if he has a R>F relationship over them? Additionally, the summary says that: “invites him to become one of his stage actors” If he’s inviting characters to be actors, that makes the whole theatrics dynamic seem a lot more literal. So yea, hard disagree.

If the "theatre" part that you have problem, then i will explain.
ITS not the theatre like in our world where its story is in limited space and require some equipment setting (such as; only applies and can be watch inside of a building), no, the fact is that the whole Shadow Fight 2 Universe itself is the theatre.
Pretty much explaining why Puppeteer can extend his story up to the "before creation".

ITS literally happening real time, infront of the dojo.

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Bump

 

[Jeeeeepil123]

Bump

 

[57Dev]

Didn't Shades make Underworld canon as Sensei references the Eternals

 

[Catzlaflame]

He gets beaten is because he's down inside the fiction world with immersion (iirc, isn't this ability make the character weaker technically?), the same like Architect did when he challenges Shadow.

Immersion isn’t genuine r> f (see below) there can never be any interaction between r>f, otherwise, it counters the point all together.

ALTHOUGH I will say that I agree with you that the page doesn’t do a good job at conveying this, so I’ll see to it that that gets sorted out.

Just like i said above, Puppeteer respects very hard about arts... and the ultimate reason why lose (in the fictional realm) is because Shadow's role is a Hero, and you know what is a hero means... they always win (this could be another reason why he can win against Tenebris lmao, its just so hard to believe he can actually defeats Tenebris by hand), and Puppeteer follows this idea

Regardless of this, fictional characters can’t beat real characters. The reason why we rate reality > fiction scaling so high is because of the relationship.

Let me ask you this, shadow, can he beat me in a fight? And by me… I mean literally me. Like the irl version of me sitting behind this screen. It doesn’t matter if he’s the hero or not, REGARDLESS he will never beat me in a fight because, he is fictional too me. That’s same relationship needs to be established for R>F to be valid.