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What does "reaching the Root" mean, in that case?

Post in thread 'At the boundary of tier 0: Swirl of the root tier 0 upgrade'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/at-th...f-the-root-tier-0-upgrade.169701/post-6627171


The translation you provided also mentioned someone outright managed to gain access to the Akashi Records which is apparently part of the Root (I could been mistaken it for another one).

It means exactly that, reaching the Root means unlocking a pathway to the Root to achieve True Magic status if memories serve me right.

Once again, I admittedly have look into some Nasuverse lore once more, but the sources I have at the time did indicate that has been the case.

“Akasha, also known as the Root, the Swirl of the Root, the Spiral of Origin, the Seat of God, " ", 「　」, and many other names, is the omnipotent supreme boundless source of the Type Moon franchise capable of creating anything. The beginning and end of all of creation. Akasha/The Root/The One is the singular source of all existence. True boundlessness from which all reason flows. All things flow from that singular source and diversifies. It is omnipotence without a mind. It is beyond all dimensional theory and is beyond any limited version of infinity in regards to mathematics. Infinity as we know it in mathematics is contingent on the finite to exist.




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"Beyond and below lay only darkness. This void, lifeless place could only mean one thing: I was dead. Without anything to even clothe me, I, Shiki Ryougi, floated, and then sank slowly into the fathomless, lightless sea. There was no end in sight. There was nothing in sight, neither light, and yes, perhaps even darkness. This place was only a hollow, where all meaning ceased to be. A stygian abyss that could not be put into words, and without words it shall remain: a cypher called, simply, “ ”. I fell deeper into the “ ”, and my naked body slowly acquired the pallor of the grave, and it made me want to look away. In my mind, I knew that everything in this place comes to be the same way. “Is this death?” I whispered, though it came out so faint, I doubted if it was even real. Though time too had no meaning inside “ ”, I observed it. Like a stream tracing out into the infinite, like the process of decay, I mark it. It was an eternity. I plunged ever deeper, and cast my eyes farther, and in that eternity, this place was still empty, devoid of anything except me. And yet, it was all so calm and serene. It feels as if, in this place without meaning, the fact that I existed at all fits me. Here lay entropy, the end of all things, a place the living may never observe, but only the dead may enter. I died. And yet I am still alive. I felt my mind about to lose its grip. Two years. An instant, stretched out to an eternity. Both are accurate measures of my time spent in this “ ”. Here, I touched death. Here, I fought for my life. Here, I awakened." - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 4


Why did they claimed the Emptiness as it is beyond dimensional theories?
Also I recall there was a scan from a manga regarding the Root as being the top of dimensional theory as well,

Okay, now I gonna been serious. We have someone else who is directly stated to being connected to the Root other than Shiki.

That is not an issue, either.

Is it though? As it stands, I am more confused on what is actually truly not contradicted and what is actually contradicted as once this is all sorted out, I will been satisfied with the “contradictions” the supporters claimed to being the case to being resolved.

Especially we talking about a regular mage getting direct connection to the Root as well.

"According to mystery, there is "power" at the top of all dimensional theories outside of this world.

Coordinates that are the origin of every event. It is, "the vortex of origin" long-cherished wish serving all of the magician...... in the beginning of all things, and The end. The throne of God that can record everything in this world and create everything in this world."

神秘学の語るところによれば、この世界の外側には次元論の頂点に在る“力”があるという。

あらゆる出来事の発端とされる座標。それが、すべての魔術師の悲願たる『根源の渦』……万物の始まりにして終焉しゅうえん、この世の全てを記録し、この世の全てを創造できるという神の座である。

https://sai-zen-sen.jp/works/fictions/fate-zero/02/01.html"

This is literally this as it describes the Root in that particular way as well as some other things. I have to look into it more

Here it mentions coordinates again for the Root. Can the supporters truly claimed it is contradicted?

Edit: It literally straightup say dimensional theory in the manga scan.

Finally: As seen above, a number of terms in our everyday vocabulary are, strictly speaking, misnomers when applied to such characters. However, as most writers are human beings, it would be unreasonable to assume they are always speaking in strict philosophical terms when featuring these concepts in their works. As such, mere usage of inadequate verbiage does not automatically disqualify a character, though it might, of course, need justification or amendment by the background context of the character in question, depending on the severity of the inappropriateness.

Click to expand...

Seems to fall under this. Type-Moon is a verse that actually goes out of its way to say that all predicates and descriptions assigned to the Root are infinitely below it, so, seems to be more than justified by background context.

??? That only serves to confuse me more as we have a Guide statement and a manga statement as well as a few magus unlocking the pathway to the Root.

You can not tell me with a straightforward way these Magus should automatically qualify as Tier 0 beings as I rather not make every single being as Tier 0, thank you very much.

Still, this concerns me more as we might need to directly confront the supporters regarding any actual contradictions as it seems to me, the author with supervision of Nasu having to confirm the Root is at the top of a dimensional theory so we can’t claim otherwise.

I will admit I am completely indifferent if the Root is truly Tier 0 or not, but we have to carefully evaluated these statements one by one as it stands to ensure there is actual contradiction or not

That last post wasn't referring to the "Mages wanna reach the Root" thing. It was addressing the Root being called a coordinate, specifically.

Oh, that part. It is just referring to where the Root resides rather than the root directly being called a coordinate judging by what the manga scan is saying.

Edit: At least, that is how I interpret the wording used in the manga scan I show you regarding the Root

“
"Right, that is Shiki's power. Like Fujino she can see channels that normal people can't see, she is able to see the spiral of origin with her eyes. But, I can go even deeper. No... maybe I myself am that spiral."
".... Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old world with a new world."

Apparently it is from KnK epilogue regarding the Shiki and her direct ties to the Root

Tbf, the refutation does relied on the interpretation of the statements being used as well and to say otherwise is unwise.

I will admit, I am questioning whatever or not the Root is truly Tier 0 or actually qualified for Tier 0 given the statements. Also the fact the Big G man (God) has been mentioned multiple times to the point it is hard to say if Shiki is the only one tied to the Root anyway.


Plus the supporters also fail to address that KnK (The older novel) preceded that of Fate/Zero so there is that

I believe this is what Deagonx was referring to in the VN of F/SN.


As a note, Fate Stay Night does come after KnK where the protagonist (Shiki) came from.

Also one more thing to add in here, this is from the Heavens Feel route if memories serve me right as I recognize this conversation as well

“Still doesn't mean much if you want to accept it alongside Shiki's vision of the Root. Was all the mana just tucked away somewhere she couldn't see, for instance? (Sounds pretty stupid).”

Unless you know, she doesn’t actually care about that and in that case, she would prevent any True Magic User from unlocking a path to the Root like Aoko or Zelretch for that matter,.


Again, we don’t really know too much about Shiki that is part of the Root.

I posted this on Deagon’s and Firestorm’s wall earlier, but ShadowWhoWalks forgets to add the space gets converted into imaginary space from the usage of BB’s noble phantasm.

I already posted this, but Shadow literally leave out this part from Fate Stay Night.

Illya was talking to Rin in the Heaven Feel’s route about the purpose of the Holy Grail War which is still attempting to reach to the Root via the ritual.

Also earlier before the scan I show, it directly mentions a hole to the “Origin”