[3-0-0] What do you think "S"-Class stands for? (Tatsumaki vs. All Star Superman)

[Rex_Eckles]

Before he dies, Clark's gotta make sure the world's heroes are up to snuff. Both are tier 5, speed is equalized, fighters start 10 meters away, fight takes place in a terrain with large rocks that won't burn up due to air friction.

Tatsumaki: Kachon123, TauanVictor, Rex_Eckles, MannyQ361

Superman:

Inconclusive:

 

[Nonynho]

Following

 

[Delusionaltx2]

So if my math is right, supes has roughly a 5.2x AP advantage and an ~18x LS advantage (this is essentially a 36x diff considering his LS feat was with one arm so him using two arms would be double that)

Yeah this isn't looking too good for tatsu, I'll follow anyway though

 

[Rex_Eckles]

So if my math is right, supes has roughly a 5.2x AP advantage and an ~18x LS advantage (this is essentially a 36x diff considering his LS feat was with one arm so him using two arms would be double that)

Yeah this isn't looking too good for tatsu, I'll follow anyway though

That’s why I included the large rocks, so her attack speed is 75 times faster.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

That’s why I included the large rocks, so her attack speed is 75 times faster

Well that actually makes things interesting

Does she know these rocks can withstand that level of heat and air friction though? I'd assume she probably would given the intention but it would be nice to include that in the OP as well so it doesn't get brought up later

 

[Nonynho]

That’s why I included the large rocks, so her attack speed is 75 times faster.

wut?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Ight we may have an issue

Its very in character for tatsu to hurl tons of rocks at the enemy


Dozens of rocks moving at 75x his combat speed doesn't seem very dodgable for supes here


You could probably remedy this issue by nerfing the rocks a little (maybe make it to where there isn't that much of them to use and also make it to where each rock can only be used a select few amount of times before breaking. Ofc she's probably gonna still need a decent amount of them to work as a phesable wincon, especially with the ap advantage but smth like that could work)

 

[Nonynho]

Dozens of rocks moving at 75x his combat speed doesn't seem very dodgable for supes here

Can't open the profile rn

how good is his regen? 75x faster and also much much weaker attacks may not bypass something Mid or higher, ngl

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Can't open the profile rn

how good is his regen? 75x faster and also much much weaker attacks may not bypass something Mid or higher, ngl

It's only mid-low so probably useless

That said I notice that this iteration of supes is MFTL so speed equal rules probably save him from getting omega blitzed here (tatsus attack speed with rocks is rel+)

 

[Nonynho]

It's only mid-low so probably useless

That said I notice that this iteration of supes is MFTL so speed equal rules probably save him from getting omega blitzed here (tatsus attack speed with rocks is rel+)

if she doesn't have the speed advantage, then she's being obliterated today lol

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I also notice he has a form of resurrection that allows his consciousness to persist as pure energy

Can he still physically interact with his surroundings while he's like that? Or would he just get incapped?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

if she doesn't have the speed advantage, then she's being obliterated today lol

Well tatsu would theoretically be capable of spamming tens to dozens of these and this version of supes doesn't seem to have skill feats for danmaku dodging

She also has internal attacks which is something to take note of

 

[Nonynho]

Well tatsu would theoretically be capable of spamming tens to dozens of these and this version of supes doesn't seem to have skill feats for danmaku dodging

She also has internal attacks which is something to take note of

all of those with waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay lesser AP

only the Durannegging ones may hurt but still to such a low potency that we may not see many results from it, with L-Mid regen

 

[Kachon123]

Tatsumaki's dura neg damages to a cellular level.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

all of those with waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay lesser AP

A five times AP advantage means she has to hit him with 5 attacks for him to take a sizable amount of damage

This is a high threshold sure but not exactly impossible to reach especially with the amount of rocks she was using against saitama

only the Durannegging ones may hurt

It isn't from the rocks, she just targets whatever is inside if you with her TK

but still to such a low potency that we may not see many results from it, with L-Mid regen

Your confusing low mid with mid low

Low-mid allows you to heal limbs and even minor organ damage. Superman does not have this

What superman does have is mid-low which normally allows you to heal scratches, maybe fingers and burn marks if it's good enough

Edit: I just skimmed the regen page and found that even that's wrong
Mid-low doesn't even heal fingers, that's high-low. Mid-low really just heals deep injuries (scratches & burn marks)

 

[Nonynho]

Tatsumaki's dura neg damages to a cellular level.

hm
5x weaker than yourself but damage to cellular level

How IC is that?

 

[Nonynho]

Edit: I just slimmed the regen page and found that even that's wrong
Mid-low doesn't even heal fingers and burn marks, that's high-low. Mid-low really just heals deep injuries (scratches)

yeah, then his regen ain't countering s*

so it depends on how IC it is for her to do it and how much time will Supe have before she does it

 

[Delusionaltx2]

yeah, then his regen ain't countering s*

so it depends on how IC it is for her to do it and how much time will Supe have before she does it

Yeah that's a question for @Kachon123 to answer since I only remember her doing that once

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Oh and another question

How IC is it for this version of clark to grapple? Does he typically lead with that or would he do it later on into the fight is what I'm asking.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

That said I notice that this iteration of supes is MFTL so speed equal rules probably save him from getting omega blitzed here (tatsus attack speed with rocks is rel+)

They don't stop him from getting blitzed, only from the match being added if it's a major factor if he takes an L

 

[Delusionaltx2]

They don't stop him from getting blitzed, only from the match being added if it's a major factor if he takes an L

But it is a major factor though...

The match goes from somewhat balanced to literally unfair because tatsu would just spam dozens of attacks at speeds more than fast enough to statue him over and over until he gets worn down

 

[Arkansalter2]

Yeah that's a question for @Kachon123 to answer since I only remember her doing that once

She can dura neg but it's not IC at all.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

But it is a major factor though...

Yep, sure is

 

[Kachon123]

so it depends on how IC it is for her to do it and how much time will Supe have before she does it

It's not really a question of if it's IC for her to do. Tatsumaki's telekinetic pressure just naturally crushes on a cellular level, so the amount of time Superman has before getting hit all depends on when she decides to attack with something that isn't rocks.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Come to think of it I remember chariot making a CRT about how the durability of internals just downscale from the character

Assuming that's the case wouldn't clarks internals just downscale somewhere within 5-C+ to baseline low 5-B?

Oh and another question

How IC is it for this version of clark to grapple? Does he typically lead with that or would he do it later on into the fight is what I'm asking.

I think this question is really important as well

 

[Rex_Eckles]

From what I remember from the comic, Superman doesn't tend to grapple, although the fights we see him in do have extenuating circumstances, like against Jimmy Olsen his mind was warped and was talking like Bizarro (clearly confused), I'm pretty sure he held back against the Kryptonians and wasn't interested in heavily beating them, he does grab Solaris in their fight (although he is large and not quite the same thing as grappling). In character, he seems to punch it out and use his powers if his opponent demonstrates ranged options. His heat vision is an option and his ice breath is kinda OP.

Keep in mind that it would take a moment for Tatsumaki to lift and throw the rocks, in which Clark could close the distance and punch her or use his powers. It also depends if she starts with throwing rocks or tries something else.

 

[Kachon123]

From what I remember from the comic, Superman doesn't tend to grapple, although the fights we see him in do have extenuating circumstances, like against Jimmy Olsen his mind was warped and was talking like Bizarro (clearly confused), I'm pretty sure he held back against the Kryptonians and wasn't interested in heavily beating them, he does grab Solaris in their fight (although he is large and not quite the same thing as grappling). In character, he seems to punch it out and use his powers if his opponent demonstrates ranged options. His heat vision is an option and his ice breath is kinda OP.

Tatsumaki is covered in both a barrier and an aura that makes her pretty much immune to elemental attacks. She can also use TK on his heat vision to nullify it.

Keep in mind that it would take a moment for Tatsumaki to lift and throw the rocks, in which Clark could close the distance and punch her or use his powers. It also depends if she starts with throwing rocks or tries something else.

It takes no time for her to crush him.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Tatsumaki is covered in both a barrier and an aura that makes her pretty much immune to elemental attacks. She can also use TK on his heat vision to nullify it.

Not bad, though they're still 5 times stronger than her. Also, the frost breath is still an option.

It takes no time for her to crush him.

Which might be hard to do for someone with higher LS and durability. Yeah she can crush things on a cellular level, but A) that's not the same as ignoring durability, it's a testament to the thoroughness of the crushing and B) the scan you showed indicates she can potentially not destroy everything on a cellular level if not going all out.

 

[Kachon123]

Not bad, though they're still 5 times stronger than her. Also, the frost breath is still an option.

You can't really freeze a barrier so that wouldn't work.

Heat vision being 5x stronger than her doesn't really matter either since she can use her LS to do this

Which might be hard to do for someone with higher LS and durability. Yeah she can crush things on a cellular level, but A) that's not the same as ignoring durability, it's a testament to the thoroughness of the crushing and B) the scan you showed indicates she can potentially not destroy everything on a cellular level if not going all out.

The scan shows that Tatsumaki always uses that level of force.

Her dura neg destroys on a cellular level, but also attacks internal organs as well and rips muscles apart. The scans are on her profile. Superman doesn't really have an answer for that.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

You can't really freeze a barrier so that wouldn't work.

Considering he can freeze part of the Sun, with the contents in question being in various states of matter, he probably can. Also, does her barrier prevent heat from passing through? If not, his breath can probably just freeze through it.

Heat vision being 5x stronger than her doesn't really matter either since she can use her LS to do this

That's pretty effective, I'll give you that.

Her dura neg destroys on a cellular level, but also attacks internal organs as well and rips muscles apart. The scans are on her profile. Superman doesn't really have an answer for that.

It shows that it takes time for the overbearing pressure to actually kill someone, pressure is force applied over area, so higher LS is more than enough to resist that. We see the effects on the muscles are likewise surmountable with higher LS. I'll admit that this scan shows she can target specific things inside someone's body, but then we have the discussion of if Clark's internals downscale his physical durability.

 

[Kachon123]

Considering he can freeze part of the Sun, with the contents in question being in various states of matter, he probably can. Also, does her barrier prevent heat from passing through? If not, his breath can probably just freeze through it.

It repels

It shows that it takes time for the overbearing pressure to actually kill someone

Like I mentioned, Tatsumaki is constantly coated in a defensive aura. That aura was the reason she survived prolonged exposure. This is what it looks like against somebody who doesn't have defenses

 

[Rex_Eckles]

It repels

Okay, but does it repel, like, air? Also, that still doesn’t stop Superman from freezing it.

Like I mentioned, Tatsumaki is constantly coated in a defensive aura. That aura was the reason she survived prolonged exposure. This is what it looks like against somebody who doesn't have defenses

So someone who is more durable than her aura can replicate that. Also, Superman has an aura too.

 

[Kachon123]

Okay, but does it repel, like, air? Also, that still doesn’t stop Superman from freezing it.

Yes

You have to prove that psychic energy can be frozen

So someone who is more durable than her aura can replicate that. Also, Superman has an aura too.

It wasn't her aura's durability that allowed her to survive. It was the fact that it had to interact with a layer of psychic energy before coming into contact with her body.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Yes

That's not repelling air, though, it's draining water. Heat still, like, exists in the barrier no? And everyone can still breath in the barriers, right? There needs to be some air flow for that to happen for long periods of time.

You have to prove that psychic energy can be frozen

He can freeze the air around and passing through it. He's froze the plasma on the Sun's surface, wouldn't you have to prove that such a dramatic temperature change wouldn't affect the psychic barrier that physically interacts with matter?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

It wasn't her aura's durability that allowed her to survive. It was the fact that it had to interact with a layer of psychic energy before coming into contact with her body.

The pressure had to interact with the layer of psychic energy before contacting her body, so the pressure couldn't immediately overcome the psychic energy, the psychic energy that inflicts and withstands physical force, that sounds like durability.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.

 

[Nonynho]

Bump

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Bump.