Grappler Baki General Discussion

[Jigoshi]

One thing I definitely want us to do for the new revisions is to explain the the skill of that these characters have. because if I’m honest, I don’t feel like our page are doing them any justice.

To be honest, most of these characters should have like genius for combat

With Baki and Yujiro being extraordinary genius.

I've been collecting as many skill and IQ feats as I can. One skill I am not sure the Wiki provides is the ability to knock out Pickle with just a grazing of the skin on his chin. Which I think might be Durability Negation? Considering that blunt force couldn't rattle Pickle's brain, but Baki's grazing could.

This is some of it, but when I have time, I will re-upload a newer picture

Another feat that I am not sure is on the wiki is when Yujiro saw the Cockroach Dash for the first time and broke down every detail of how it worked. There is also Yujiro out-boxing Iron Michael, too. These are just stuff off the top of my head.

 

[azontr]

One thing I definitely want us to do for the new revisions is to explain the the skill of that these characters have. because if I’m honest, I don’t feel like our page are doing them any justice.

To be honest, most of these characters should have like genius for combat

With Baki and Yujiro being extraordinary genius.

Combat skill ratings aren't a thing anymore. You just list them in the intelligence section but there's no being a combat "genius" anymore.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Combat skill ratings aren't a thing anymore. You just list them in the intelligence section but there's no being a combat "genius" anymore.

Ahhh ok ok

 

[Da3ggman]

Yujiro blitzes Oliva

vsbattles.fandom.com

New MHS calc, this time probably not an outlier (only time I'm thankful for power creep).

 

[NotoriouSoda]

I've been collecting as many skill and IQ feats as I can. One skill I am not sure the Wiki provides is the ability to knock out Pickle with just a grazing of the skin on his chin. Which I think might be Durability Negation? Considering that blunt force couldn't rattle Pickle's brain, but Baki's grazing could.

This is some of it, but when I have time, I will re-upload a newer picture

Another feat that I am not sure is on the wiki is when Yujiro saw the Cockroach Dash for the first time and broke down every detail of how it worked. There is also Yujiro out-boxing Iron Michael, too. These are just stuff off the top of my head.

It definitely should be considered a form of durability negotiation tho it will be limited

 

[azontr]

It's just limited dura neg via brain shaking slop. He did the same thing vs Sukune.

 

[Jigoshi]

Yujiro blitzes Oliva

vsbattles.fandom.com

New MHS calc, this time probably not an outlier (only time I'm thankful for power creep).

I am not too sure about Oliva being significantly faster than Katsumi's Mach Punch. Since again, the technique doesn't really scale over to Katsumi's raw speed alone, but I could definitely see Oliva being faster than MT Katsumi. I would use this as a high-end because I am not too sure the wiki will allow something like that. But using the fastest punching speed the wiki provides would be better for a low-end and maybe the mid-end, being subsonic.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yujiro blitzes Oliva

vsbattles.fandom.com

New MHS calc, this time probably not an outlier (only time I'm thankful for power creep).

The pixel scaling could be better for Yujiro and his face, it's also better to use the manga for his full body height and build

Also the chapter is in 190... Put that number there NOW, was searching for that fight FOOOR SOOO LONG

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Combat skill ratings aren't a thing anymore. You just list them in the intelligence section but there's no being a combat "genius" anymore.

Really..? You sure?

 

[azontr]

Really..? You sure?

Quite.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yujiro blitzes Oliva

vsbattles.fandom.com

New MHS calc, this time probably not an outlier (only time I'm thankful for power creep).

I am not too sure about Oliva being significantly faster than Katsumi's Mach Punch. Since again, the technique doesn't really scale over to Katsumi's raw speed alone, but I could definitely see Oliva being faster than MT Katsumi. I would use this as a high-end because I am not too sure the wiki will allow something like that. But using the fastest punching speed the wiki provides would be better for a low-end and maybe the mid-end, being subsonic.

In chapter 75 on son of ogre, he keeps up with Baki's punching speed, so that can be used... And I believe both have already punched faster than eye perception

I believe this can also be used;

The Hardware Limit (Doppler Shift)​

Speed: ~Mach 2 to Mach 10 (depending on hardware quality)

If you bypass the legal restrictions (e.g., you have a military or specialized scientific receiver), you eventually hit a physics wall related to the radio hardware.

• • What happens: The receiver loses "lock" on the satellites and cannot calculate a position at all.
  • Why: As you move toward or away from a satellite, the frequency of the radio signal shifts (the Doppler Effect).
    • GPS satellites transmit at specific frequencies (e.g., 1575.42 MHz).
    • If you move extremely fast, the frequency shifts so much that it falls outside the "search window" or "bandwidth" the receiver is listening to.
    • High-end receivers (like those on spacecraft) are designed to scan a wider range of frequencies to "catch" these shifted signals, allowing them to track at orbital speeds (17,500 mph).

GPS and Relativity

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/238619351_On_the_relativistic_Doppler_Effects_and_high_accuracy_velocity_determination_using_GPS

Nevermind

 

[Da3ggman]

I am not too sure about Oliva being significantly faster than Katsumi's Mach Punch. Since again, the technique doesn't really scale over to Katsumi's raw speed alone, but I could definitely see Oliva being faster than MT Katsumi. I would use this as a high-end because I am not too sure the wiki will allow something like that.

I mean, we accept that he's thousands of times stronger than Katsumi, so I'm not sure why him being significantly faster is that much of an assumption. Besides, he should be somewhat comparable to Yujiro Hanma during New Grappler Baki (not anymore obviously, but narratively at the time he wasn't a jobber yet), about a year after the Maximum Tournament. If you think that Yujiro > Mach Punch at the time of the Max Tournament (which he obviously should be), then with his AD, he'd def be vastly superior to it by then, and thus so would Oliva.

But using the fastest punching speed the wiki provides would be better for a low-end and maybe the mid-end, being subsonic.

I'll add subsonic as a low end, since Baki and Oliva were explicitly moving faster than eyesight in their fight.

 

[Da3ggman]

The pixel scaling could be better for Yujiro and his face, it's also better to use the manga for his full body height and build

Good idea, I'll redo it soon.

Also the chapter is in 190... Put that number there NOW, was searching for that fight FOOOR SOOO LONG

K

 

[Da3ggman]

I am not too sure about Oliva being significantly faster than Katsumi's Mach Punch. Since again, the technique doesn't really scale over to Katsumi's raw speed alone, but I could definitely see Oliva being faster than MT Katsumi. I would use this as a high-end because I am not too sure the wiki will allow something like that. But using the fastest punching speed the wiki provides would be better for a low-end and maybe the mid-end, being subsonic.

In chapter 75 on son of ogre, he keeps up with Baki's punching speed, so that can be used... And I believe both have already punched faster than eye perception

I believe this can also be used;

Nevermind

Yujiro blitzes Oliva

vsbattles.fandom.com

I edited the calc accordingly; a bit of a downgrade, but it's still MHS, so I'm happy with it.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Good idea, I'll redo it soon.

I meant to still scale via his face... But use the manga for that instead, this panel for example seem very good to use

Don't have to, just personally like accuracy

Yujiro blitzes Oliva

vsbattles.fandom.com

I edited the calc accordingly; a bit of a downgrade, but it's still MHS, so I'm happy with it.

Also about this:

I'll assume Yujiro's arm moved 180 degrees: 90 to put it up, and another 90 to pull back and punch.

Yujiro's Arm Length: 0.832 m

Distance Yujiro's Arm Moved: (0.5) * 2π * (0.832 m) = 2.614 m

I don't really understand the assumptions that you used (Unless you're saying all Yuijro did was rotate his shoulder alone, 180 degrees, then I can see that making sense)

because each rotation is 1 movement, I don't understand how the calculation really accounts for that

Yujiro height = 2660 px (1.90 m)

Boxing glove to bicep = 780 px (0.55714285714286 m)

Bicep to shoulder = 480.1 px (0.34292857142857 m)

0.55714285 * 90 * pi/180 = 0.87515794228 m (Rotation of his forearm)

0.34292857 * 90 * pi/180 = 0.5386709381 m (Rotation of his shoulder)

Yujiro movement = 0.87515794228 + 0.5386709381 = 1.41382888038 m

His actual full arm length would be little lower because of the boxing glove but it still works in this instance since he rotates with the glove

Assuming he rotated his whole arm:

0.90007142857 * 180 * pi/180 = 2.8276577877 m (Rotation from his shoulder alone)

Yujiro movement = 2.8276577877 m

Now that I'm reading it again, I believe your assumption is that Yujiro got into a boxing stance position first of basically guarding his face, and then punching, which would be way more movement than just 180 degrees

---

Btw... What is up with Katsumi Orochi's page...? His speed section is so bad especially compared to the amount of information we've actually received of him

I know there's been a lot of discussions on him and his speed tho

 

[Viott]

Yujiro blitzes Oliva

vsbattles.fandom.com

New MHS calc, this time probably not an outlier (only time I'm thankful for power creep).

Bro, I really wish Yujiro were MHS.

 

[Viott]

I found a strange feat.


Gaia from "Baki Gaiden Gaia & Sikorsky" changes cloud structure into whale shape

 

[Jigoshi]

Btw... What is up with Katsumi Orochi's page...? His speed section is so bad especially compared to the amount of information we've actually received of him

I know there's been a lot of discussions on him and his speed tho

What exactly is the issue with the page? That panel is just discussing the Mach Punch, iirc.

 

[Lilixa]

I found a strange feat.


Gaia from "Baki Gaiden Gaia & Sikorsky" changes cloud structure into whale shape

is this like city level AP ????

 

[Da3ggman]

I found a strange feat.


Gaia from "Baki Gaiden Gaia & Sikorsky" changes cloud structure into whale shape

This feat is weird as ****, but I’ve already discussed it with some calc members and it’s kinda….actually, I don’t remember what we came to. It’s really is just an oddity.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This feat is weird as ****, but I’ve already discussed it with some calc members and it’s kinda….actually, I don’t remember what we came to. It’s really is just an oddity.

the earth manipulation I've been talking about

Similar thing Yujiro did with the earthquake

 

[Jigoshi]

Gaia from "Baki Gaiden Gaia & Sikorsky" changes cloud structure into whale shape

I am not sure this is a deliberate AP feat as it seemed to just represent Gaia's sound but I could be wrong

 

[Da3ggman]

the earth manipulation I've been talking about

Similar thing Yujiro did with the earthquake

Don't play with me, Monkey.

8-B, 7-C with Earth Manipulation would be kinda funny tho-

I meant to still scale via his face... But use the manga for that instead, this panel for example seem very good to use

Don't have to, just personally like accuracy

Also about this:

I don't really understand the assumptions that you used (Unless you're saying all Yuijro did was rotate his shoulder alone, 180 degrees, then I can see that making sense)

because each rotation is 1 movement, I don't understand how the calculation really accounts for that

Yujiro height = 2660 px (1.90 m)

Boxing glove to bicep = 780 px (0.55714285714286 m)

Bicep to shoulder = 480.1 px (0.34292857142857 m)

0.55714285 * 90 * pi/180 = 0.87515794228 m (Rotation of his forearm)

0.34292857 * 90 * pi/180 = 0.5386709381 m (Rotation of his shoulder)

Yujiro movement = 0.87515794228 + 0.5386709381 = 1.41382888038 m

His actual full arm length would be little lower because of the boxing glove but it still works in this instance since he rotates with the glove

Assuming he rotated his whole arm:

0.90007142857 * 180 * pi/180 = 2.8276577877 m (Rotation from his shoulder alone)

Yujiro movement = 2.8276577877 m

I might try that method, thanks.

Now that I'm reading it again, I believe your assumption is that Yujiro got into a boxing stance position first of basically guarding his face, and then punching, which would be way more movement than just 180 degrees

---

Here's basically my logic.

1. Pulls his arm up to face towards Oliva (90 degrees)

2.Pulls arm back to ready punch (45 degrees) (this one I wasn't entirely sure on, but I saw places say that it was 45 degrees, so I went with that)

3. Pushes arm forward and actually punches, similar to a straight punch (45 degrees)

This could be wrong, but I assume it was fine enough since it was accepted. However, I'm always open to suggestions and even you guys doing your own versions, should you want to. We're all in this together, after all.

Btw... What is up with Katsumi Orochi's page...? His speed section is so bad especially compared to the amount of information we've actually received of him

I know there's been a lot of discussions on him and his speed tho

This should be fine. He's subsonic+ normally, give or take, and some range of supersonic with his Mach Punch.

 

[Lilixa]

I found a strange feat.


Gaia from "Baki Gaiden Gaia & Sikorsky" changes cloud structure into whale shape

Is this manga after musashi miyamoto arc 2018 ?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Here's basically my logic.

1. Pulls his arm up to face towards Oliva (90 degrees)

2.Pulls arm back to ready punch (45 degrees) (this one I wasn't entirely sure on, but I saw places say that it was 45 degrees, so I went with that)

3. Pushes arm forward and actually punches, similar to a straight punch (45 degrees)

This could be wrong, but I assume it was fine enough since it was accepted. However, I'm always open to suggestions and even you guys doing your own versions, should you want to. We're all in this together, after all.

That image makes absolutely no sense

That's something Luffy would do, not a boxer or any type of marital artist

Like could you show an example when Yujiro or anybody punched like what you mean? Because I still can't really picture the thought process fully

 

[Jigoshi]

I made a re-calc for the Giant Elephant

 

[Da3ggman]

That image makes absolutely no sense

That's something Luffy would do, not a boxer or any type of marital artist

Like could you show an example when Yujiro or anybody punched like what you mean? Because I still can't really picture the thought process fully

Yeah, that's my bad, brain is still tired rn. Replace the 3rd image with this one. He pulls back to punch straight, kind of like Seiken. It's pretty much just a regular punch.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This should be fine. He's subsonic+ normally, give or take, and some range of supersonic with his Mach Punch.

What exactly is the issue with the page? That panel is just discussing the Mach Punch, iirc.

So 8 movements for it to be a mach punch, he then learns to utilize 27 movements to make it even faster

27 / 8 = 3.375x faster

1225 kph x 3.375 = 4134.375 kph (Mach 3.348)

I believe these are 3 more points of movements as well

30 / 8 = 3.75x faster

1225 kph x 3.75 = 4593.75 kph (Mach 3.72)

The hitless blow and all the imaginary joints then becomes even harder to accurately determine the speeds I believe

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yeah, that's my bad, brain is still tired rn. Replace the 3rd image with this one. He pulls back to punch straight, kind of like Seiken. It's pretty much just a regular punch.

yee was assuming that, so basically like a karate punch but with boxing guard

 

[Da3ggman]

So 8 movements for it to be a mach punch, he then learns to utilize 27 movements to make it even faster

27 / 8 = 3.375x faster

1225 kph x 3.375 = 4134.375 kph (Mach 3.348)

I believe these are 3 more points of movements as well

30 / 8 = 3.75x faster

1225 kph x 3.75 = 4593.75 kph (Mach 3.72)

The hitless blow and all the imaginary joints then becomes even harder to accurately determine the speeds I believe

I like your thinking, but unfortunately since we cant prove that the joints are a complete linear increase (ie. "8 joints Mach 1, 16 is Mach 2, etc"), I dont think we can do it on site. Like, it's def an increase for sure, but without hard proof it'd just be "higher".

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I like your thinking, but unfortunately since we cant prove that the joints are a complete linear increase (ie. "8 joints Mach 1, 16 is Mach 2, etc"), I dont think we can do it on site. Like, it's def an increase for sure, but without hard proof it'd just be "higher".

that's the thing... I'm not using joints, I'm using the points of movements instead

If 8 movements enables him to exceed mach speed then 16 movements would double that speed

Joints themselves aren't automatically points of movement (the transfer between 1 point to another)

 

[Da3ggman]

that's the thing... I'm not using joints, I'm using the points of movements instead

If 8 movements enables him to exceed mach speed then 16 movements would double that speed

Joints themselves aren't points of movement (the transfer between 1 point to another)

Ah, I see what you mean. Maybe that could have some potential.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

yee was assuming that, so basically like a karate punch but with boxing guard

This instead would then be:

Boxing glove to bicep = 780 px (0.55714285714286 m)

Bicep to shoulder = 480.1 px (0.34292857142857 m)

0.55714285 * 180 * pi/180 = 1.75031588456 m (Rotation of his forearm for a boxing guard)

0.34292857 * 45 * pi/180 = 0.26933546905 m (Rotation of his shoulder backwards)

0.34292857 * 135 * pi/180 = 0.80800640716 m (Rotation of his shoulder forwards)

0.55714285 * 90 * pi/180 = 0.87515794228 m (Rotation of his forearm into a punch)

Yujiro movement = 1.75031588456 + 0.26933546905 + 0.80800640716 + 0.87515794228 = 3.70281570305 m

 

[Jigoshi]

So 8 movements for it to be a mach punch, he then learns to utilize 27 movements to make it even faster

No, that was retconned. 27 movements was the actual change. Additionally, Kaku can achieve this with fewer joints.

But everything in regards to Mach speed and scaling was done here

 

[Da3ggman]

Okay so quick update:

1. I’ll finally get around to posting the various grip feats today, all will be above 100 tons and performed by versions of characters <<<<<< Sukune.

2. New speed scaling slop for potential MHS stuff from the Chiharu Gaiden.



Ron’s regular strikes are faster than the speed of sound.



Chiharu says that Ron isn’t at Baki’s level. This is important because the only version of Baki Chiharu knows is the version from his fight with him in Son of Ogre. This is affirmed when he thinks of this version later in the fight.

Anyone who is comparable or above this version of Baki would thus have a minimum speed for their strikes to be used in calcs.



Hanayama is also stated to have the “fastest accelerating blow” by Ron’s partner, so he would also scale, furthering the consistency of it.

I’ve got ideas for where this leads, but we’ll have to see.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Anyone who is comparable or above this version of Baki would thus have a minimum speed for their strikes to be used in calcs.

doesn't really work like that...

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

No, that was retconned. 27 movements was the actual change. Additionally, Kaku can achieve this with fewer joints.

What you mean no, it's retconned?

what I calculated was for Katsumi's mach punch technique, by using the points of movement and him learning to make it faster with 27 points... The other is with him and kaku which I already talked about is different (and faster) but harder to calculate/determine it's speed

The hitless blow and all the imaginary joints then becomes even harder to accurately determine the speeds I believe

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The hitless blow and all the imaginary joints then becomes even harder to accurately determine the speeds I believe

actually... Maybe you can

Shoulder to wrist/fist = 3 = 27 points of movement (4134.375 kph (Mach 3.348)

3 = Mach 3.348

27 / 3 = 9x

Using his whole body 27 points of movements with his new imaginary joints punch =

9 x 3.348 = mach 30.132 (High Hypersonic) ggs

 

[Da3ggman]

doesn't really work like that...

That’s

That’s bullshit.

What the ****. That completely ****** my plans. Dammit. Well maybe not, ig I could work with it.

 

[Billybobjoe321]

That’s

That’s bullshit.

What the . That completely ** my plans. Dammit. Well maybe not, ig I could work with it.

Yeah, the statement that Baki is superior to Ron would need some sort of reference to the previous statement of Ron’s speed. Though you can still use Ron’s speed in place of Baki’s or Hanayama’s in any calculations. Or anyone else who directly scales to Ron.