Mori Dans non-duality and Mujin Parks resistance additions

[Halkum145]

Here I will discuss the issue of nonduality, which was accepted before but later refuted by Dereck.

Short version for lazy people:
The reason why non duality was rejected before was because the physiology of Mori did not change as presented by Dereck, I am here to prove that wrong.

Long version:
First, I will address the argument that mori's physiology has not changed, which is one of the reasons for rejection. This argument is fundamentally very wrong. For those who reach nirvana, getting rid of the laws of nature/physical bondage and becoming a complete soul is the most direct expression of Mori's physiological change.

Mori's narrative being an all-powerful god and performing a miracle in the series by being crucified and ascending to heaven for humanity is a narrative support for the change in physiology. As stated in the scans, the all-powerful God dies for the sins of humanity and ascends to heaven. Also, the narrative and philosophical narrative of Nirvana in the series is to reach the highest spiritual form and get rid of physical physiology. I believe that all this evidence and narrative support is sufficient to say that Mori has undergone a physiological change.

So why should mori jin gain nonduality?
The main reason for this is that mori are cut off from the world and have a physiology independent of the laws of nature. People who reach nirvana are completely cut off from the world and become an entity independent of the laws of nature. And this is clear evidence that it is independent of the dualities found in the universe.

Evidence and list of dualities found in the universe.

For all these reasons, my suggestion is that mori and xuanzag are must-have abilities. Nonduality (Nature Type 1 & Aspect type 1 and 2) for mori dan

Mujin park resistance of karma and give karma abilities:
In the series, after Mujin was erased by Mori's karma ability, it is said that the prophet's wings rejected karma by Mori.Due to Mori's statement here, I think Mujin should get resistance to all his karma abilities or at least get resistance to fate and casuality manip. Mori specifically mentions that he rejects karma in general, saying that he rejects karma, not karma's ability. As additional support, these prophet wings existed in the form of Mori that broke the karmic cycle and protected Mori with their prophetic powers. It also mujin says that he can directly resist karma.

And finally, mujin's control over his mixed abilities should be a full version, not "Likely" as in the profile. It is said by Tathagata that he gave all his everything (including abilities, because it is said that he even gave the power of wisdom) and all his power to Mujin, so Mujin must be a complete version.

What does this changes?
Mori has the abilities of nonduality type 1 and aspect type 1-2. mujin park must have all of karma's abilities and all of karma's abilities (at least basic abilities).

Agree: @PowerToScale @Spectra_Schiffer @DavidTPPM @Zeinx1 @Floxy178 @Mndks @LuffyRuffy46307 @Linafrfr @Dereck03 (only for mujin) @LordGriffin1000
Disagree: @Dereck03 (non duality) @DarkDragonMedeus (only mori's non duality) @Deagonx (only mori's non duality)

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree

 

[DavidTPPM]

I agree. But for the karma abilities, Mujin should only have the abilities of karma itself (like time manip and erasure) and the abilities of the 3 prophets giving him the wings. Not the comp ability set of everyone in the verse like Mori.

 

[Halkum145]

I agree. But for the karma abilities, Mujin should only have the abilities of karma itself (like time manip and erasure) and the abilities of the 3 prophets giving him the wings. Not the comp ability set of everyone in the verse like Mori.

fair enough.

 

[PowerToScale]

I think this makes sense, put me down for Agree

 

[Zeinx1]

I agree with David and OP

 

[Floxy178]

I agree with David

 

[Mndks]

Looks fine I agree

 

[Bedircawyq]

I agree

 

[Yeolban]

One question, why would Mujin get karma's abilities again? I'm fine with whatever resistances he gets from temporarily resisting Mori's karma, but why would Mujin gain the abilities?

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I agree

 

[CryptonBestDbFan]

Agree

 

[Benimōru]

Following

 

[Halkum145]

One question, why would Mujin get karma's abilities again? I'm fine with whatever resistances he gets from temporarily resisting Mori's karma, but why would Mujin gain the abilities?

Karma is found in Tathagata and its properties are clear. Karma abilities should be valid for both Tathagata and Mujin unless it is stated that Mori's karma abilities are specific to him only.

 

[DavidTPPM]

One question, why would Mujin get karma's abilities again? I'm fine with whatever resistances he gets from temporarily resisting Mori's karma, but why would Mujin gain the abilities?

Mujins red wings appear to be a weaker, smaller version of Moris. The difference is that while Mori gained power from everyone in the verse, Mujin only gained power from Manjin and his two exes.

That's why Mori says "You too have someone who's precious to you" and "The savior from the prophecy could be you".

 

[Mndks]

Satan solo

 

[Yeolban]

Karma is found in Tathagata and its properties are clear. Karma abilities should be valid for both Tathagata and Mujin unless it is stated that Mori's karma abilities are specific to him only.

Since when is Karma found in Tathagata? What?

Mujins red wings appear to be a weaker, smaller version of Moris.

While I agree that they're a much weaker version (billions of people including the verse's high tiers giving their power to Mori vs 3 people giving their power to Mujin), Mujin never appeared capable of using EE or Time manip. Sure, it might be because those would be irrelevant against Mori anyway, but I'm a bit doubtful. Mori's EE isn't exactly EE either currently, it's "deconstruction, and likely EE".

 

[CodeCCLL]

I don't understand the point of this thread, considering that staff has rejected Mori's Nonduality, even though all the scans in this thread about Mori being Nondual by nature were brought up as additional proof by David and verse supporters in the previous thread.

 

[Yeolban]

I don't understand the point of this thread, considering that staff has rejected Mori's Nonduality, even though all the scans in this thread about Mori being Nondual by nature were brought up as additional proof by David and verse supporters in the previous thread.

It's exactly because staff rejected it. The op didn't find the argument for rejection convincing.

 

[DavidTPPM]

While I agree that they're a much weaker version (billions of people including the verse's high tiers giving their power to Mori vs 3 people giving their power to Mujin), Mujin never appeared capable of using EE or Time manip. Sure, it might be because those would be irrelevant against Mori anyway, but I'm a bit doubtful. Mori's EE isn't exactly EE either currently, it's "deconstruction, and likely EE".

I don’t think it really matters. As you said, they wouldn't work on Mori so no need to waste energy using them. Mujins chicken wings could temporarily revive and protect him from Moris full wings so Mujins karma hax would most likely be like an ant trying to bite a tank.

If nothing else, at least a "likely" rating should definitely reasonable. Since they're conceptually the same thing, just one is weaker than the other.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I don't understand the point of this thread, considering that staff has rejected Mori's Nonduality, even though all the scans in this thread about Mori being Nondual by nature were brought up as additional proof by David and verse supporters in the previous thread.

The main counter argument was the lack of evidence that Moris physiology changed when that's just blatantly not true. When I pointed out he "became a spirit free from the laws of nature" it kidna just got ignored even tho it very clearly proves a change to Moris body. The whole reasoning for the removal felt weak.

I only didn't argue against it because I have no idea what dualities are or how they work (which I still don't lol) and the thread got closed pretty quick out of nowhere.

 

[CodeCCLL]

It's exactly because staff rejected it. The op didn't find the argument for rejection convincing.

Rejected content revisions cannot be resubmitted within a short period of time (typically defined as within 3 to 4 months), except in cases where a staff member has a good reason to do so (e.g. important unconsidered information, violation of site standards or flaws in a calculation).

What I'm trying to say is that the last thread on Mori's Nonduality was created on November 21st and we are now on January 30th.

 

[Halkum145]

Since when is Karma found in Tathagata? What?

tathagata uses karma on mori and brings he into the karmic cycle.Also david mentioned the point I wanted to talk about before me

 

[Halkum145]

What I'm trying to say is that the last thread on Mori's Nonduality was created on November 21st and we are now on January 30th.

Technically, it will be 3 months since we are entering February, but if there is a problem with this, I can put the CRT on hold.

 

[DavidTPPM]

What I'm trying to say is that the last thread on Mori's Nonduality was created on November 21st and we are now on January 30th.

Does this count? This CRT mostly banks on Moris change in physiology after ascending while the other just went over him achieving Nirvana in general.
Like if I make a CRT saying Mori is universal because he destroyed a rock, does that mean nobody can open a CRT saying Mori is universal because he destroyed a universe for 4 months?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Technically, it will be 3 months since we are entering February, but if there is a problem with this, I can put the CRT on hold.

Or just remove the duality shenanigans and keep it for Mujins resistances

 

[Halkum145]

Or just remove the duality shenanigans and keep it for Mujins resistances

Yes, I don't think there will be any problems with the main duality. Because instead of opening the old CRT again, opening a new CRT and evaluating the events better and the fact that we will enter February in 2 days should not cause any problems.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Like if I make a CRT saying Mori is universal because he destroyed a rock, does that mean nobody can open a CRT saying Mori is universal because he destroyed a universe for 4 months?

From my perspective no, but from the wiki perspective I don't know.

 

[Halkum145]

While I agree that they're a much weaker version (billions of people including the verse's high tiers giving their power to Mori vs 3 people giving their power to Mujin), Mujin never appeared capable of using EE or Time manip. Sure, it might be because those would be irrelevant against Mori anyway, but I'm a bit doubtful. Mori's EE isn't exactly EE either currently, it's "deconstruction, and likely EE".

He may not have used this because he knew it would be ineffective against mori, because mori, like mujin, takes away the resistance of all karma abilities.but it is better to add such capabilities at least "likely"

 

[Halkum145]

From my perspective no, but from the wiki perspective I don't know

If any mod or admin says that this should be closed for this reason, I can close it and wait again.

 

[DavidTPPM]

If any mod or admin says that this should be closed for this reason, I can close it and wait again.

Or just edit the CRT to only be about Mujins karma hax and resistances. You should be able to edit the original post

 

[Halkum145]

Or just edit the CRT to only be about Mujins karma hax and resistances. You should be able to edit the original post

Yes, if there is a problem with duality, I can edit Mujin's 2c topic and add it here and continue the CRT using topics such as resistance.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It seems good

 

[Linafrfr]

I Agree

 

[Dereck03]

Not only do I disagree again, I also believe that the previous thread had much more evidence and scans and yet it was rejected and this one only has 2 scans where 1 that was used in the previous thread is being used to justify the ability again.

First, I will address the argument that mori's physiology has not changed, which is one of the reasons for rejection. This argument is fundamentally very wrong. For those who reach nirvana, getting rid of the laws of nature/physical bondage and becoming a complete soul is the most direct expression of Mori's physiological change.

GOH: Mori Nonduality

I absolutely agree with this, in the mori nirvana form, thanks to karma, it is purified from all physical bonds and takes on a completely spiritual form, it is purified from all the laws of nature, it becomes independent from many dualities such as ying yang light and darkness day and night...

vsbattles.com

This was previously discussed and given the context was simply suggested as Acausality but was simply ignored as the others simply dropped the argument

and becoming a complete soul is the most direct expression

This is an assumption since there is nothing to prove this in the scan. And the rest of the scan explicitly uses the place as basis.

This place is what you might call heaven. You can oversee all of creation from this place, you would become a true god free from laws of nature.

Same i explained here.

Mori's narrative being an all-powerful god and performing a miracle in the series by being crucified and ascending to heaven for humanity is a narrative support for the change in physiology. As stated in the scans, the all-powerful God dies for the sins of humanity and ascends to heaven. Also, the narrative and philosophical narrative of Nirvana in the series is to reach the highest spiritual form and get rid of physical physiology. I believe that all this evidence and narrative support is sufficient to say that Mori has undergone a physiological change.

And here the scan used has nothing to do with what was said, the rest is just an extrapolation and use of words never mentioned in the scan to try to justify abilities, a clear fact that "The justification has nothing to do with the scan".

 

[DavidTPPM]

and becoming a complete soul is the most direct expression

This is an assumption since there is nothing to prove this in the scan. And the rest of the scan explicitly uses the place as basis.

 

[Dereck03]

I didn't know we equated spirit as soul, anyway that wouldn't guarantee any form other than some sort of incorporeality and the rest of the points stands.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Dereck.

 

[Deagonx]

The main reason for this is that mori are cut off from the world and have a physiology independent of the laws of nature. People who reach nirvana are completely cut off from the world and become an entity independent of the laws of nature. And this is clear evidence that it is independent of the dualities found in the universe.

This conclusion is unsound. Nonduality is a conceptual matter, being physically independent of the laws of physics by reaching a state with a different physiology (for instance, if one became an "angel") doesn't imply nonduality.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I didn't know we equated spirit as soul, anyway that wouldn't guarantee any form other than some sort of incorporeality and the rest of the points stands.

The definition of the word "spirit" is literally

the non-physical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.

And what this DOES prove is that Moris physiology changed in paradise. Something that you denied.
Mori became a spirit (soul) free from the laws of nature (which should include the dualities(?) ) and became literally "all powerful" which is defined as having complete, absolute, omnipotent power or capable of doing anything.

This was previously discussed and given the context was simply suggested as Acausality but was simply ignored as the others simply dropped the argument

This is not a counter argument.

Same i explained here.

You claim the "place gives him that power" yet there's no proof of that. The entire scene talks about how Mori will "become an all powerful spirit", "become a Buddha", "become a true god", "all his ties will be cut". There's a TON of statements outright telling us Mori will gain power and physical change while nothing at all even remotely implies he will just manipulate the place like a weapon or something of that sorts.