Touhou Discussion Thread 3 ⌈Eternal Fantasy Edition⌋

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

To be fair, im expecting to see a lot of verses benefit from the Tier 1 changes as well, and also, this.....also wont help with the stigma of Touhou be considered wanked. But im still excited, more matches open up!

I think people are overexaggerating just how many verses will qualify. Legitimate R > F is already quite difficult to qualify for, and it seems as though the standards are going to become far more stringent in order to accommodate just how massive of a jump R > F is. I think the people claiming to have not just one, but two or even three verses all qualifying for 1-A will be in for a rude awakening not long from now, and I believe the overall success rate of such upgrades is going to be far lower than most are anticipating.

Also, my previous comment was in a more general sense, not just in regards to tiering. I will have to get the boring laundry lists of ability additions out of the way first before moving on to verse mechanics and the like. For example -

I'm sure this isn't the kind of exciting, meta-defining material you were hoping for, but it's a necessary step in the revisions nonetheless.

Touhou will get even more fake fans after the Tier 1 stuff, be ready.

This community is already rife with racists and lolicons. Powerscalers are practically saints relative to the fake Touhou fans that already exist.

 

[Topaz404]

Oh hey, Medicine is getting some love. Ya like to see it
But eh well. Im just here to witness shit go down. Peanut gallery, basically

And now i shall vanish

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I cant wait for the storm of people trying to content revision Touhou back down after it gets Tier 1, oh thats going to be a funny shitstorm to witness

I'm not all that concerned. The people who attempt to downgrade Touhou are those who lack any understanding of the source material; I can go back and look at any of Saikou's attempted "debunks" of my points and make a very strong case that he has never read the series beyond a handful of fan wiki entries. They would have to argue not on the basis of what canon material exists that supports their points (because if it exists, they haven't seen it), but on an interpretation of the wiki's rules, which is an inherently disadvantageous position against someone who knows both the wiki's rules and the source material inside and out (ie; Me).

Of course, getting the revision passed in the first place is a different story entirely.

 

[Topaz404]

Well yeah, this all assumes it passes anyways, but i'd like to see it anyways

(Also the "debunks" for Infinite speed were laughable dear god what were they smoking)

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

ability additions

speaking of ability additions
Sakuya should get fire manip for this spell card right?

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah, if you dont mind me adding on as well....
Seija Kijin getting some form of Social Influencing, mainly because she gaslit Shimmy to go along with her plans of weak youkai revolution, even if it.....failed and blew up in her face (im pretty sure that was her goal, anyways)

 

[Deidalius]

Does Outerversal even attract people who are solely fans of a series because of the powerscaling anymore?

Those people seem to just go after High outerversal and Boundless series only powerscalers know about.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

speaking of ability additions
Sakuya should get fire manip for this spell card right?

No. That's not an official spell card description, but a fanmade one. The telltale sign of this is that there's no Japanese text being translated; The original text is in english (when it definitely wouldn't be if it was written by ZUN).

Yeah, if you dont mind me adding on as well....
Seija Kijin getting some form of Social Influencing, mainly because she gaslit Shimmy to go along with her plans of weak youkai revolution, even if it.....failed and blew up in her face (im pretty sure that was her goal, anyways)

Potentially, although it's not nearly as impressive as the kind of social influencing seen elsewhere in the series.

 

[Topaz404]

No. That's not an official spell card description, but a fanmade one. The telltale sign of this is that there's no Japanese text being translated; The original text is in english (when it definitely wouldn't be if it was written by ZUN).

Potentially, although it's not nearly as impressive as the kind of social influencing seen elsewhere in the series.

I mean, yeah, thats true, but its something i felt like made sense. It takes a lot of charisma and knowing what to say in order to incite a rebellion/revolution, failed or not

 

[Shmooply]

medicine didnt have small size on her profile before

I just might start tweaking.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I just might start tweaking.

Neither did Shinmyoumaru until I added it a while back.

 

[Shmooply]

Neither did Shinmyoumaru until I added it a while back.

The absolute state of Touhou profiles.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The absolute state of Touhou profiles.

What do you mean? The old profiles were quite good. They must have spent a whole five minutes on them.

 

[SomeJJJJ]

Does anyone have a scan of Marisa almost killing Seiga? it is in her current profile but has no scan.

 

[SomeJJJJ]

Also, my previous comment was in a more general sense, not just in regards to tiering. I will have to get the boring laundry lists of ability additions out of the way first before moving on to verse mechanics and the like. For example -

talking about ability additions , Marisa could get Small size? (lol) she seems to be too tiny even by human standards

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Does anyone have a scan of Marisa almost killing Seiga? it is in her current profile but has no scan.

talking about ability additions , Marisa could get Small size? (lol) she seems to be too tiny even by human standards

She's quite a bit taller than fairies, whom we have at 1.38 meters here.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

After looking at my checklist and what I've added recently, I think I can confidently say we'll hit 50 threads in total. Ideally, I'd like to keep it at exactly 50.

 

[StrymULTRA]

talking about ability additions , Marisa could get Small size? (lol) she seems to be too tiny even by human standards

Small Size is applied only to things of a 1 m tall or less.

 

[Deidalius]

Remilia and Flandre in this mod react to the sun by covering themselves (They're dropped by the Brain of Cthulhu) which is a nice detail. Not many Terraria mods have pets react in this sort of way.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I was reminded of the Touhou wiki's abysmal divine spirit page so I made an image breaking it down.

The fact that bunrei isn't mentioned at all is, to be blunt, an embarrassment.

 

[Shmooply]

Yeah, I can't believe they didn't include Bunny Reimu.

 

[SomeJJJJ]

I was reminded of the Touhou wiki's abysmal divine spirit page so I made an image breaking it down.

Speaking of that wiki, what do you think about those things like, "the known playable routes caninocity in games" they literally have a page where they say that the canonicity of playable routes is ambiguous and only a few routes tend to be canon, something like "the canon route in EoSD is the Reimu's Route because Akyuu says she solved the incident" also, that canon routes can be a problem in the canonicity blog? I heard that ZUN said that the real ending of UFO is Marisa's B or that it is difficult to know for sure if Marisa's ending in LoLK is canon in the LoLK SCoOW interview

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Speaking of that wiki, what do you think about those things like, "the known playable routes caninocity in games" they literally have a page where they say that the canonicity of playable routes is ambiguous and only a few routes tend to be canon, something like "the canon route in EoSD is the Reimu's Route because Akyuu says she solved the incident" also, that canon routes can be a problem in the canonicity blog? I heard that ZUN said that the real ending of UFO is Marisa's B or that it is difficult to know for sure if Marisa's ending in LoLK is canon in the LoLK SCoOW interview

It won't be a problem. The actual events of each game remains unchanged regardless of route; It's not like there are branching dialogue trees. No matter which ending you get, it won't really affect how the series plays out, because everything is canon compliant (even bad endings just give the protagonists a chance to try again after failing). A lot of the differences are just dialogue between characters, which isn't something that would become non-canon in different routes (or at least, the information being provided wouldn't stop being true). For example, it'd be completely unreasonable to say "Makai is infinite in these routes because Murasa says it is, but it's not infinite in these routes because she doesn't mention it in her dialogue".

None of the story routes provide contradictory information, either. They just build off each other. IIRC, ZUN has even said that it's impossible to understand the story of some games without playing through every route and getting every ending, so you're actually intended to composite information like this.

 

[SomeJJJJ]

It won't be a problem. The actual events of each game remains unchanged regardless of route; It's not like there are branching dialogue trees. No matter which ending you get, it won't really affect how the series plays out, because everything is canon compliant (even bad endings just give the protagonists a chance to try again after failing). A lot of the differences are just dialogue between characters, which isn't something that would become non-canon in different routes (or at least, the information being provided wouldn't stop being true). For example, it'd be completely unreasonable to say "Makai is infinite in these routes because Murasa says it is, but it's not infinite in these routes because she doesn't mention it in her dialogue".

None of the story routes provide contradictory information, either. They just build off each other. IIRC, ZUN has even said that it's impossible to understand the story of some games without playing through every route and getting every ending, so you're actually intended to composite information like this.

oh well, thanks, it just left me wondering if these 2 statements about UFO and LoLK made several routes not canon.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

oh well, thanks, it just left me wondering if these 2 statements about UFO and LoLK made several routes not canon.

It doesn't matter because the information from other routes is still fair to use.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I've been working on Marisa's profile and came to the realization that I should probably index all her miscellaneous items she has on screen for like 5 seconds. So uh, if anybody here can think of any examples of literally any notable item she's ever owned, send it to me so I don't have to reread literally the entire series.

 

[Shmooply]

"damn queen, you really live like this?"

"Makai is infinite in these routes because Murasa says it is, but it's not infinite in these routes because she doesn't mention it in her dialogue".

Gee, I wonder where I heard this argument before!!

 

[SomeJJJJ]

I've been working on Marisa's profile and came to the realization that I should probably index all her miscellaneous items she has on screen for like 5 seconds. So uh, if anybody here can think of any examples of literally any notable item she's ever owned, send it to me so I don't have to reread literally the entire series.

That thing from the vol 2 or 3 omake in FS? also what is the Choker?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

That thing from the vol 2 or 3 omake in FS?

I don't know which thing you're talking about, could you give more context?

also what is the Choker?

Marisa in PCB is wearing a choker that, according to ZUN, acts as a charm that protects against cold.

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

oh
didn't notice until now Marisa wore a choker in PCB lol

 

[Shmooply]

There's quite a simple explanation for this:
her head gat darn big for her neck!!!!

 

[SomeJJJJ]

I don't know which thing you're talking about, could you give more context?

I think it was from FS chapter 37.5 but I don't remember what it was, alsoo whaat!? Scan about what ZUN said? i remember seeing on other wikis versus that marisa supposedly had a weakness to cold, now i see that doesn't make sense anymore lol

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I think it was from FS chapter 37.5 but I don't remember what it was

Marisa isn't even in that one.

 

[SomeJJJJ]

Marisa isn't even in that one.

I remembered it wrong then By the way, the hiking equipment is from the most recent chapter of Lotus Eaters?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

By the way, the hiking equipment is from the most recent chapter of Lotus Eaters?

Yeah.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I don't usually share reworked justifications, but youkai finally have a half-decent reason for fear hax now.

• Aura, Sense Manipulation & Fear Manipulation (All youkai possess 'youkai energy' that takes the form of an aura[34], which can make one feel pins and needles throughout their body[35]. Youkai exist to[36] cause fear in humans[37], doing so with mere glances[38], through[39] smiling[40], or with their presence alone[41], causing irrational fear[42] via an overwhelming[43] intimidating[44] aura[45] or a "power of fear"[46]. A youkai's aura is powerful enough to deliver these effects even while sealed away[47]. Successfully inducing fear in a target also allows a youkai to absorb their Spirit[48])

 

[SomeJJJJ]

a "power of fear"[46].

um.. this scan doesn't work

hax

speaking of haxes, could Yukari, Reimu, Satori and Nue get supernatural willpower by withstanding the pressure of manipulate boundaries?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

um.. this scan doesn't work

God fucking damn it. This ALWAYS happens with imgur links, even when it's never done this before. Having to go back and replace every imgur scan, and somehow find a way to make image albums work, is gonna suck.

speaking of haxes, could Yukari, Reimu, Satori and Nue get supernatural willpower by withstanding the pressure of manipulate boundaries?

Nothing would suggest it's a matter of willpower, I always treated it as durability since the pressure is more like a physical pressure.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

God fucking damn it. This ALWAYS happens with imgur links, even when it's never done this before. Having to go back and replace every imgur scan, and somehow find a way to make image albums work, is gonna suck.

Nothing would suggest it's a matter of willpower, I always treated it as durability since the pressure is more like a physical pressure.

I posted the wrong scan

It was supposed to be this one.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm liking how the youkai justification reworks are coming along.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

One more before I go to bed, since I'm so nice.

• Incorporeality (Youkai are frequently[30] described[31] as[32] spirits[33] or spiritual[34] beings[35], with their bodies being made up of spirit[36] or chi[37] and many youkai being[38] considered incorporeal[39]. The only difference between a phantom and a youkai is that the latter's spiritual body has a more defined shape, rather than being formless and indistinct[40]. They can phase through objects at will[41], appearing as formless quantum particles for whom physical form is meaningless[42], and they are not bound to the material plane, merely possessing the appearance of a physical body[43])