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Bill Cipher Precognition Buff

ShionAH

ShionAH

He/Him
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Acasuality 4 Stuff​

    • Acausality (Types 1 and 4)
      • Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.
  • Yet Bill is able to use both his Causality and Precognition haxes on himself which would give him Acasuality 4 Negation
 
Last edited:
ShionAH said:
  • Yet Bill is able to use both his Causality and Precognition haxes on himself which would give him Layers and Acasuality 4 Negation
Click to expand...
Ok

Though I'd remove that "outside time scan" in the Nightmare realm, I am not saying it isn't, but it just is a reference to Bill not aging under time.
ShionAH said:
Since they are capable of building a machine that can shake an entire 2-A structure with its raw power and the fact that Stanford made a weapon that could kill Bill (A 2-A being) they should gain a Supergenius Rating
Click to expand...
No, Supergenius is about stuff that straight up reality warps, killing a Tier 2 is not enough.
 
ShionAH said:
If your technology is higher than 3-A then you can get Supergenius though
Click to expand...
That from where does it come from? This is genuinely the 1st time I hear about it.

Take note that for a Supergenius rating to be given based on technological prowess, the character in question should be able to essentially warp reality as they wish on an at least universal (3-A) scale with their inventions, or even use them to overpower tier 1 entities for higher cases. Simply defying the laws of physics with futuristic technology is very common for Extraordinary Geniuses as well. Basically there should be a very extreme amount of versatility combined with a high or extremely high degree of scale.

Killing a Tier 2 being =/= Warping reality on a Tier 2 scale.
 
ShionAH said:
Haxes only give Extraordinary Genius unless they can be used on Tier 1 scale according to the Genius rating
Click to expand...
Are you now trolling? SuperGenius requires 3-A or above Reality Warping, which is technology. And Venuzdonoa has that: It can reform the order of the world and rewrite concepts and laws, including Jerga[3], who is the concept of hatred for demons that will still exist even if this hate ceases to exist in the world
ShionAH said:
So? It still only a Tier 2 AP feat. Which is leagues below Portals 2-A feat
Click to expand...
AP feat done with reality warping, what else do you expect from recreating cosmology?
 
ShionAH said:
Causality and Precognition haxes on himself
Click to expand...
Yeah, on himself 🗿

ShionAH said:
He has it for understanding his cosmology that is Tier 2
Click to expand...
Also that's wrong, it's actually Low 1-C, maybe 1-C? (JJ specifically, canon JoJo is 2-A, comp JoJo is like 1-B due to Rohan novels tho), and also not really why he should have it to begin with
Kars profile is DOGSHIT btw, like I think he should have it but sure as **** not for the justification given
 
I mean tbf, I don't even like the way it's worded. Mostly because I see this leading to dudes saying Bill can precog or whatever any Type 4, which obviously is dumb. Type 4 is simply having ****** up causality, the mechanics behind why it's ****** can vary greatly. If we limit it to only Types 4 similar to him ig I could be neutral leaning toward agree.
also, is it established in context that precog and stuff wouldnt work on him normally?
 
Chariot190 said:
I mean tbf, I don't even like the way it's worded. Mostly because I see this leading to dudes saying Bill can precog or whatever any Type 4, which obviously is dumb. Type 4 is simply having ****** up causality, the mechanics behind why it's ****** can vary greatly. If we limit it to only Types 4 similar to him ig I could be neutral leaning toward agree.
Click to expand...
That's a problem with any hax involving Type 4 Acausality. We just assume that hax that bypasses Type 4 acausality will work on "baseline" ones, then higher degrees of it won't be affected.

It's how it works here iirc.
 
Then unfortunately I'll have to disagree. That's just wanking for the sake of it even though we clarify that with any other sort of hax based on mechanics, and we really have no reason to assume Bill's hax is all-encompassing instead of just enabling it because that's how he himself works.
 
That's how the wiki works with that though.

Sorry but your personal beliefs do not override on how hax works.
 
StrymULTRA said:
That's how the wiki works with that though.

Sorry but your personal beliefs do not override on how hax works.
Click to expand...
It isn't even though? Where's the rule that says as much?
In fact from what I've seen we don't treat any hax like that and differ between mechanics, so much so that we even sometimes prefix it with "unconventional", enabling i to often bypass res, and vice versa.

I'd like to see a rule that says that's how we treat all aca 4 as the same with no room otherwise.
and the **** do you mean "how hax works", this addition is grasping as it is let alone touching on entirely arbitrary standards that have no real rules
ShionAH said:
Aca 4 is gained by Nature
Click to expand...
Well aware, that's the issue. The "why" some have it could be completely different.
Type 4 is just an umbrella term, why would someone whose Type 4 is completely different from Bill's, with completely different reasons as to why, not even remotely the same, work for him? It wouldn't, he'd need feats like anyone else. Type 4 is just having non-standard causality, by no means is all differing standards interchangeable.

It's like saying red and blue are both colors, so someone who can manipulate the color red only, can manipulate blue too. That shit's just dumb. Or for actual practices, the difference between mind manip, simply resisting mind manip doesn't mean you can res all types, say you res Poison Ivy's bio mind manip, that's cool, but that's biological and wouldn't stop say Prof X from mindfucking you and vice versa.
 
Chariot190 said:
It isn't even though? Where's the rule that says as much?
In fact from what I've seen we don't treat any hax like that and differ between mechanics, so much so that we even sometimes prefix it with "unconventional", enabling i to often bypass res, and vice versa.
Click to expand...
It's more a convention. Here we assume that a character that can affect a random Aca 4 can affect all the rest, it was always like this in vs threads.
 
I'm asking to see an actual rule and standard, I saw this precisely because I've seen hax, even layered functions like this. Most commonly with hax in cases where like, yeah a dude could have 1000+ mind mental layers res, but that doesn't mean shit if the mind in question is fundamentally different and is done by say, KLK wires or spores.
We do often treat abilities, hax, and more as sometimes not working, simply based on fundamental aspects or the mechanisms behind them being too widely different.

I see no reason why Type 4, something that inherently is just "as long as they don't adhere to normal causality they get this" (which means, of course, there are numerous specifics involved that can differ). To give an example, imagine if someone had Type 4 simply because for them, the effect happens before the cause, that's it, nothing major really but that's still having ****** up causality and thus Type 4 even if bad. And then some dude precogs him.

Why would you wank that dude's precog to working on completely different Type 4's? Like do you think his ass could precog Bill now because of that? **** no, bro don't got feats even remotely close to that, yet he still precog'd a Type 4. Same here.


I just want to index it accurately is all. Hence why I want to see an actual rule on this if true.
 
ShionAH said:
Rimuru has it because of nullifying a Tier 2 system
Click to expand...
Chapter 192
Chapter 242
Chapter 248
Rimuru can rewrite the laws that control the fate, causality, space-time continuums, the cycle of reincarnation of the cosmology, which includes several parallel universes and dimensions and can recreate the nihility energy/turn null/nihility collapse that creates the entire cosmology and precedes all that exists in the verse, devoid of all essential elements.
Click to expand...
So it's much more comprehensive than you think, but I have to be honest that at some point I have to rewrite the description and add scans.
 
Seems like Chariot just disagrees with Acasuality 4 Negation even existing in the wiki rather than Bill having it specifically
 
ShionAH said:
Seems like Chariot just disagrees with Acasuality 4 Negation even existing in the wiki rather than Bill having it specifically
Click to expand...
Yeah, I just ignore him on that as it's a convention on the wikia, if a character affects a Type 4 acausal, then they can do that with any baseline Type 4. It always worked like this, by his logic Type 4 Acausality Negation can't exist on this wiki outside of suggs-like characters.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Yeah, I just ignore him on that as it's a convention on the wikia, if a character affects a Type 4 acausal, then they can do that with any baseline Type 4. It always worked like this, by his logic Type 4 Acausality Negation can't exist on this wiki outside of suggs-like characters.
Click to expand...
Show rule my dude, hell show where it was accepted as a convention? We don't treat anything else like this yet suddenly this fine? Even his, if anything, has the most reasons for not adhering to your mentality than any other ability on the wiki?

This isn't even acausality negation, it's just "yeah his precog works on himself", no explanation given. We don't extrapolate.

As it stands, all this leads to is admitted wank.
ShionAH said:
Seems like Chariot just disagrees with Acasuality 4 Negation even existing in the wiki rather than Bill having it specifically
Click to expand...
No? It's fine for things it's shown to work on, like anything else.

Actually index shit properly, that's what the wiki is for, the unga bunga match pissing contests are the side thing, not what we actually do.
 
Chariot190 said:
This isn't even acausality negation, it's just "yeah his precog works on himself", no explanation given. We don't extrapolate.
Click to expand...
His precog works on himself

And he has Acasuality 4 which is supposed to protect him from it

Yet his Precog negates it

Character A resists Hax B

Character A uses Hax B on himself

Hax B works = Hax B is layered/Negated his Resistance
 
ShionAH said:
His precog works on himself

And he has Acasuality 4 which is supposed to protect him from it

Yet his Precog negates it

Character A resists Hax B

Character A uses Hax B on himself

Hax B works = Hax B is layered/Negated his Resistance
Click to expand...
That isn't even how we treat other haxes, see the mind hax example.

You could have 1000 layers of mind hax res, but if it's all like mental type, something as simply as Ragyo's wires from KLK is gonna work. Layered hax is fine and all, but you still need to actually factor in how shit works. You aren't, all for the sake of wanking.

That's it, I don't disagree with him having it, as long as it's clarified how it functions and what it works so we don't have dudes wanking it.
 
Chariot190 said:
That isn't even how we treat other haxes, see the mind hax example.

You could have 1000 layers of mind hax res, but if it's all like mental type, something as simply as Ragyo's wires from KLK is gonna work. Layered hax is fine and all, but you still need to actually factor in how shit works. You aren't, all for the sake of wanking.

That's it, I don't disagree with him having it, as long as it's clarified how it functions and what it works so we don't have dudes wanking it.
Click to expand...
So what kind of clarification do you want on the profile may I ask?
 
Just like, "It works on this and like this", just index it accurately so it's clear in what it did
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1070940734380847195/1070941475761836052/Untitled521_20230202233338.png?ex=658520f8&is=6572abf8&hm=6dd34fddace7218fbc21b4c9637ae1f134f41ce67b4af9b35c8aee51faf97cb5&
 
Chariot190 said:
Sorry but your personal beliefs do not override on how hax works. I want to see the rule.
Click to expand...
The rule is how it works on vs threads. Won't stop me from arguing it in vs matchups with Bill, or other characters.
Chariot190 said:
Literally who? Where's the rule.
Click to expand...
Acausality Type 4 can indeed cover other shit like CM level hax or Plot Hax, but these are just additional stuff. By default they always give a resistance to precognition, fate and causality hax, because it's the bare minimum, the source of it does not matter if the effects on fights are the same.

So you're overthinking, and I am wasting time.
 
StrymULTRA said:
The rule is how it works on vs threads. Won't stop me from arguing it in vs matchups with Bill, or other characters.
Click to expand...
Where's the rule? Show.
also why admit to wanking dude
StrymULTRA said:
Acausality Type 4 can indeed cover other shit like CM level hax or Plot Hax, but these are just additional stuff. By default they always give a resistance to precognition, fate and causality hax, because it's the bare minimum, the source of it does not matter if the effects on fights are the same.
Click to expand...
Correct, they can. Not always, but usually.

And what? Where's the rule that says that's ALWAYS the case? Like usually the reason why they get Type 4 would entail that so 99% of the time that shit won't yeah, but as said, someone could just have Type 4 via something as mundane as the cause and effect is simply swapped for them, precog would still work on them there.
You're taking what is usually the case to be the hard standard when we don't have any such actual standard.
So you're overthinking, and I am wasting time.
Click to expand...
More like the only person here who wants to actually do what the wiki is for and index things properly 🗿
 
You don't have a point tho, you're just saying you want it listed as all-encompassing neg and that you're going use it as such in matches because of a"rule" that doesn't exist that magically treats all Type 4's as being the same, even if they're fundamentally and mechanically different 🗿
The only way you'd have a point is if it WAS a rule, which it isn't.

Like yeah i's fine if Bill faces someone with the Type 4 that works kinda like his, that's obviously fine but as with everything.

I'm honestly baffled you'd even out yourself by saying
StrymULTRA said:
The rule is how it works on vs threads. Won't stop me from arguing it in vs matchups with Bill, or other characters.
Click to expand...
This right here is why I'm even pushing for it to be properly explained to avoid massive extrapolation in matches, you proved my doubts true.
And when no rule exists, and you basically admit to just wanting a funny meme power for matches...

Index it as it is, no more, no less, and then don't turn around to wank it on matches like how hard is that?
 
My problem here is that Bill's Type 4 is out of existing outside the multiverse as a natural inhabitant of the Nightmare Realm, which is essentially outside the multiverse bewteen all the universes, and because of this it lacks physics, laws and causality (and all of those are explicit in-verse if you see the justification).
Chariot190 said:
This right here is why I'm even pushing for it to be properly explained to avoid massive extrapolation in matches, you proved my doubts true.
And when no rule exists, and you basically admit to just wanting a funny meme power for matches...
Click to expand...
Just because you don't like how the vs threads work it does not mean it's untrue plus I think you'd argue what I am saying if Bill is a Jojo character.
Edutyn said:
Created a parallel universe
Click to expand...
If this isn't Reality Warping idk wtf it is 🗿
 
StrymULTRA said:
My problem here is that Bill's Type 4 is out of existing outside the multiverse as a natural inhabitant of the Nightmare Realm, which is essentially outside the multiverse bewteen all the universes, and because of this it lacks physics, laws and causality (and all of those are explicit in-verse if you see the justification).
Click to expand...
Ok? Just describe it as it is, use it as it is, I'm not saying this wouldn't be useful against most anyway, just that most isn't all, and treating it as such is dumb, wrong and wank.
StrymULTRA said:
Just because you don't like how the vs threads work it does not mean it's untrue plus I think you'd argue what I am saying if Bill is a Jojo character.
Click to expand...
Sorry but your personal beliefs do not override on how hax works. I want to see the rule.
 
while i agree with precog buff, i don't see acausality negation there, bill is saying that he is going to change the laws of causality, but we don't assume characters doing that kind of thing are affecting themselves without evidence, especially those with acausality as they have even less reason to be assumed, also that would be potency, not negation, i think, honestly i'm not sure anymore

and yeah acausality type 4 and 5 in this wiki are pretty dumb with how they are handled
 
Chariot190 said:
Ok? Just describe it as it is, use it as it is, I'm not saying this wouldn't be useful against most anyway, just that most isn't all, and treating it as such is dumb, wrong and wank.
Click to expand...
Almost any Acasual 4 is either like Bill or has a worse version of his acausality lmfao. Now you're just overthinking.
Thelastmlg said:
and yeah acausality type 4 and 5 in this wiki are pretty dumb with how they are handled
Click to expand...
Ok? You can make a CRT about it though.
 
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