There is no contradiction. There is only the side that has shame. And the side that doesn't have shame. The Source from every single era of DC is contained within it and its absurd that anyone thinks the DC Comics Source is beyond the Marvel Continuity Earth 8 or the Image Continuity of Earth 41 in the original map context.
Doesn't the phrase "backpedaling" imply that I have changed my stance about something?
I just asked you to stop with the mockery in your posts. If it happens again I will have to take this to RVR.
You're right. I don't know why you're implying I am in some way flustered or embarrassed on this subject. Maharishi was not Buddhist, he was Hindu.
No, lifted from Hinduism and tweaked a bit. Vedic isn't Buddhist. The word Vedic refers to Vedas, a Hindu scripture that isn't recognized by Buddhism. It can't be Vedic and Buddhist. That be like saying it's Quranic and Jewish.
First, relax. There is no justification for being hostile.
It's not an if, it's 1) how maps work and 2) directly confirmed in Absolute Edition. It's not outweighed by anything, there's quite a lot of information that identifies the Source, Presence, and Overvoid together in various aspects, both within Morrison's Overvoid writings and as a composite. Heck, Williamson just made the Presence and the Overvoid the same.
It isn't stonewalling, no. And the fact that your arguments are opinions isn't what discredits them. Rather, it's the evidence directly showing that the author of the Overvoid wrote them as being the same thing. If we look at what Grant has written about the Overvoid, there are no contradictions. If we look at composite DC, there are many retcons that these various characters have gone through, but it always circles back to them having a definite relationship, usually being identified as the same thing, like Williamson saying Presence = Overvoid, Snyder saying Presence = Source, DeMatteis saying Void = Source = God (the same thing Grant said about the Overvoid), et cetera.
First, where did Snyder say in an interview that the Source and the Overvoid are different aspects of the same Godhead?
Besides the map, where in Morrison and Snyder’s writing is the Overvoid and The Source identified together?
This is untrue. There’s written contradictions for Overvoid = Source with what Grant wrote and with what Snyder wrote.
It was in an Imaginary Axis interview.
I'm not speaking for them, I am referring to a widespread notion that exists amongst them. And there are numerous, yes, the fact that I have only mentioned one in this conversation does not change the fact that there are many others, and no, there's not evidence that contradicts it.
That's not what I said.
You're referencing material from a decade before Overvoid was created, that is an invalid approach.
And he also considered them aspects of the same divinity, and heavily relied on the map which explicitly identifies them as the same, yes. You've largely made my point for me, and I'm inclined to think the authors that wrote these stories who have both identified the concept I'm talking about (a shared divinity amongst the three) know better than you on the subject.
I believe the map simply displayed them both as existing outside of the Mutliverse.
You're mistaken. The map identifies both of them as the white space beyond the Multiverse. This is clear from the convention that the map follows and has been explicitly confirmed in multiple interviews as well as officially within the Absolute Edition of Multiversity.
No, you've repeatedly mischaracterized my stance on the matter. I've attempted to correct you multiple times, that I have no problem with author statements when used appropriately. Despite my attempt at correcting you, you've kept on like I've ever remotely implied or said that one can't use author statements, but that's not my stance at all.
Yeah well, i too used to use that as an argument until i remembered the whole limitless energy and centre of the Omniverse thing.You're mistaken. The map identifies both of them as the white space beyond the Multiverse. This is clear from the convention that the map follows and has been explicitly confirmed in multiple interviews as well as officially within the Absolute Edition of Multiversity.
Where in the imaginary axis interview does Snyder say the Overvoid and the Source are different aspects of a Godhead?
Deagonx - “there's quite a lot of information that identifies the Source, Presence, and Overvoid together in various aspects, both within Morrison's Overvoid writings”
1) How can you say it was a decade before the Overvoid was created when The Source existed and you believe The Source and the Overvoid are the same?
You haven’t posted any evidence of Snyder calling them aspects of the same divinity and even if you did have some evidence for that claim, it would be completely contradicted by Scott’s own material.
There is a tweet that references this in this thread.
I've already posted that he expressed this in Absolute Multiversity very explicitly and the numerous statements he has made to that effect.
Because the Overvoid was created in 2008...?
No, it's not contradicted, and the evidence has been posted repeatedly.
Yep, the map that identifies the Source and Overvoid as the same thing. Thanks, that was my whole point.
That’s literally just a tweet from a random YouTuber. It’s not from Scott Snyder.
I asked you for evidence from Morrisons writing excluding the map, as in evidence from within the setting of the stories/narratives Morrison’s written. Those author statements are not Morrison’s writing.
Under your view this statement doesn’t make any sense because to you the Overvoid is The Source and The Source was created way before 2008. You can’t say the Overvoid and The Source are the same being and then try act like the Overvoid is some separate character that was created decades after The Source.
No, that part of the map was explicitly cut off and not mentioned. Only the Multiverse up the Source Wall was ever shown.
This is semantics, but I'm not trying to convince you of it regardless.
I don't share that notion of what I'm saying at all.
That's not true, no. The Mxy scan only showed the circle, but the scan that introduced the Dark Multiverse included that portion of the map.
It’s not semantics. The author statements you’re referencing are literally not evidence from the setting of the story that is written and drawn. Hence why they’re “author statements.” This should be pretty simple to understand.
Doesn’t matter and this isn’t a proper rebuttal. The comment you made implying the Overvoid was some separate character that was created decades after The Source, conflicts with your main stance that The Source and the Overvoid are the same being/entity. Whether you agree to this or not, doesn’t change that you did indeed go against your own argument.
In that scan, we literally do not see anything labeled the “Overvoid” or anything labeled “The Source.” We specifically see only the Multiverse and Hawkgirl even states, “This is a map of what we believe to be our Multiverse.” Furthermore, the flip-side of the map was the Dark Multiverse, meaning the Overvoid and The Source couldn’t have been on it.
He was referencing his interview with Snyder. Also, stop with the rude comments.
That's not our policy on author statements, so if you'd like to change it that'd be a different conversation.
Thats not what stonewalling is. This also isn't a CRT, nor is it a debate. What I'm saying has already been proven and accepted on this site, and your attempts to change it have not been successful.
There can't be a proper rebuttal rebuttal what is not a proper argument. The idea that because I recognize the various proof that the Overvoid and Source are the same means I must anachronistically insert the Overvoid into stories the predate Morrison creating is not something I think is reasonable at all. I'm not going to try and change your mind, but I think it's pretty far fetched. What do you expect me to say, exactly? You've done nothing but provide an opinion. I don't share it. The end.
I'm aware. Many parts of the map are not shown fully detailed, the point was that it wasn't cut off at the Source wall as you attempted to claim.
Snyder never expressed the Imaginary Axis’s opinion in that video.
Nothing I said conflicts with VSBW policy on author statements. An author statement is a statement made by an author. It’s not the same as evidence that takes place in the actual setting of the story that’s written and drawn.
You’re right it’s actually avoiding the burden of proof. A common behavior of yours.
How can the Overvoid have been a separated character created after The Source if to you The Source and the Overvoid are the same entity?
It was cut off as the Multiverse is literally the only thing drawn on that page. The Source and the Overvoid are not labeled or drawn anywhere and it wouldn’t make sense for them to be since the Dark Multiverse exists underneath that entire map as the flip side.
Sure, but I didn't say that either way.
It's not that, either. And this is a second warning about rude comments. If you cannot handle having a discussion politely, you should excuse yourself.
Because the Overvoid was not written until 2008. Similarly, the Source and the Presence have such a relationship, but the Presence predates the Source by 31 years. The fact that two cosmic beings are said to be the same does not mean it makes sense to anachronistically insert them into stories that predate their existence.
It wasn't, no. We know Snyder is using the map that Morrison created, so there's no reason to believe "Source" and "Overvoid" are not labelled on the white space outside the map.
That's not literal, she flipped the map as a metaphor to explain the idea. It's not a two sided map.
I don't know, but I have proof that overvoid and the source are weaker than Presence, I can post them if you want.
Sure.
Overvoid is the same as The source
The Wonder Woman comic explained that the Godwave fullest was founded in Heaven, in the Presence. So the Source, in essence, was higher since it produced the Godwave.
