Boros Lifting Strength Downgrade

[Therefir]

I don't have enough time to read 4 pages, but if we go by the anime, where Boros knees Saitama and then launches him with his own force in a different motion, then yes, this would be a lifting strength feat.

It's like kicking a thrash can, but only pushing it while your leg is holding it, and not during the strike itself.

 

[Golden_Void]

Again, how the hell would there be a faster than light acceleration when the speed saitama flies at isn’t even breaking rela+??

First I had to figure out where the hell Kachon was getting his speed number from (I hate when people don't list every step in a solution)

The speed he has listed comes from using this:

• 90% SoL =8.141e+18 Joules or High 7-A (Accepted End)

He reverse-engineered the speed from the kinetic energy of the feat (which I'm pretty positive we don't do last I checked), in order to find the force. However, you literally can't find force utilizing speed since force = mass times acceleration, not mass times velocity (speed). If you had solved for acceleration using F= M*A (A = F/M), you would find acceleration = 2.8e16 m/s^2.

He also did:

Boros Distance: 0.39796178343949 * 180 * pi/180 = 1.25023382 m

Force: 8141914226223440422/1.25023382 = 2027957190000000000 Newtons

Which further stresses the error.

Work = force * distance
Force = Work / distance
Distance = force / work

If the work in this case is the 814..... joules, then 2027957190000000000 Newtons * 1.25m should give you 814.... joules. It does not. It gives 2.53e18 joules, ~3x less.

If you took the 90% c accepted speed, then using the distance to the moon you would find a timeframe of 1.42 seconds, and the resulting acceleration would be ~190009304m/s^2. The force from those numbers would be 1.3e10 N, Class G.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

First I had to figure out where the hell Kachon was getting his speed number from (I hate when people don't list every step in a solution)

The speed he has listed comes from using this:

• 90% SoL =8.141e+18 Joules or High 7-A (Accepted End)

He reverse-engineered the speed from the kinetic energy of the feat (which I'm pretty positive we don't do last I checked), in order to find the force. However, you literally can't find force utilizing speed since force = mass times acceleration, not mass times velocity (speed). If you had solved for acceleration using F= M*A (A = F/M), you would find acceleration = 2.8e16 m/s^2.

No? I'm pretty sure the speed came before the KE.

 

[Golden_Void]

No? I'm pretty sure the speed came before the KE.

90% SoL (0.9c) is about 2.7e8 m/s. His specific value is a little less but is still 0.9c. I've only managed to find his specific numerical value by reverse engineering the formula, so that's possible.

Regardless, there's no acceleration anywhere in either blog, so you can't possibly find force by using velocity.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

90% SoL (0.9c) is about 2.7e8 m/s. His specific value is a little less but is still 0.9c. I've only managed to find his specific numerical value by reverse engineering the formula, so that's possible.

90% sol is just an estimation that was further supported by wog, it's not even from the calc technically speaking

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Regardless, there's no acceleration anywhere in either blog, so you can't possibly find force by using velocity.

again, I'm not a calculation guy (can't stress that enough) but this does seem fairly simple to me in concept, and nobody has really fully explained how this doesn't work
the acceleration seems to be found by using the amount of distance that Boros' leg crossed
When boros initially touched saitama, he was at rest, and by the time saitama moved 1.2 meters, he had accelerated to 90% sol, and the acceleration is found based on how much acceleration would be needed to reach that speed when only crossing that distance
it seems simple enough to me in theory.

 

[Golden_Void]

90% sol is just an estimation that was further supported by wog, it's not even from the calc technically speaking

Actually, I misspoke earlier. You wouldn't use the distance of the moon, just the rotation of Boros's leg since we don't care about Saitama. The timeframe would then be like 4.6 nanoseconds and the acceleration would be ridiculously high.

The calc basically states the kinetic energy of Saitama's body at 0.9c is in a direct relationship with the force Boros's leg generated over 1.2m. That force is described as energy / distance = 8141914226223440422 Joules / 1.25 meters.

Basically, he divided wrong during the work steps but he got the right answer for his final result. But if you were to take the traditional Force = Mass * acceleration, using the mass and force provided would give you MFTL acceleration values.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Basically, he divided wrong during the work steps but he got the right answer for his final result. But if you were to take the traditional Force = Mass * acceleration, using the mass and force provided would give you MFTL acceleration values.

I basically understand the rest, but the mftl acceleration values thing is still the confusing part here
if the speed saitama flew at was only rela+, then how would he have been accelerated to mftl? That just seems impossible, unless I am misunderstanding the meaning of mftl acceleration in this context

 

[Epiccheev]

A class g feat even if lower than the Class G he's gping to scale to is already a nice supporting feat.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

A class g feat even if lower than the Class G he's gping to scale to is already a nice supporting feat.

supporting feats didn't save this verse from tier 7 hell
supporting feats never helped anybody....

anyways it's still being determined if it's class P or not and I kind of need a clear answer of what value the feat should be

 

[Epiccheev]

supporting feats didn't save this verse from tier 7 hell
supporting feats never helped anybody....

anyways it's still being determined if it's class P or not and I kind of need a clear answer of what value the feat should be

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Actually, I misspoke earlier. You wouldn't use the distance of the moon, just the rotation of Boros's leg since we don't care about Saitama. The timeframe would then be like 4.6 nanoseconds and the acceleration would be ridiculously high.

The calc basically states the kinetic energy of Saitama's body at 0.9c is in a direct relationship with the force Boros's leg generated over 1.2m. That force is described as energy / distance = 8141914226223440422 Joules / 1.25 meters.

Basically, he divided wrong during the work steps but he got the right answer for his final result. But if you were to take the traditional Force = Mass * acceleration, using the mass and force provided would give you MFTL acceleration values.

I LITERALLY JUST SAID THIS ABOVE

God, no-one pays attention to you unless you have a fancy bar below your name...

 

[Golden_Void]

I basically understand the rest, but the mftl acceleration values thing is still the confusing part here
if the speed saitama flew at was only rela+, then how would he have been accelerated to mftl? That just seems impossible, unless I am misunderstanding the meaning of mftl acceleration in this context

Basically, work = force * distance. But force = mass * acceleration.

The energy (work) is a result of the relativistic KE using (Saitama's 70kg) and speed (0.9c).

So basically basically,

If we are assuming work (RKE) is valid and mass (70kg) is valid, then all other variables are also valid. So if we claim that the force derived from the work formula (work = force * distance) is valid, then the value of force is equally as valid.

Since Force = mass times acceleration, we can solve for acceleration like: Acceleration = force/mass

Acceleration = 6512313210000000000 Newtons / 70kg
Acceleration a from a = F/m:
| 9.303×10^16 m/s^2

This insane acceleration is most likely the result of using KE as work.

I LITERALLY JUST SAID THIS ABOVE

God, no-one pays attention to you unless you have a fancy bar below your name...

I brain dump threads after I finish looking at them so it helps to explain things again lol

 

[Aachintya31]

It's the force Boros would have needed to apply to hit leg to send Saitama flying as far as he did at the speeds that he was moving.

Funny tho, instead of Moon ,had it been Jupiter or any other planet or distance ,you would still End having the same results i.e Class P.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Funny tho, instead of Moon ,had it been Jupiter or any other planet or distance ,you would still End having the same results i.e Class P.

Well no shit, saitama would have kept moving if he didn’t hit the moon, so I don’t really see how the distance would change the LS.

 

[Therefir]

Sorry Ziller, but it looks like we aren't allowed to use FTL acceleration to get force.

 

[EnderLord8]

Well, I didn't understand exactly what the calculation problem was...

I mean, the speed of the kick never reached FTL? No?

 

[Second22]

Well, I didn't understand exactly what the calculation problem was...

I mean, the speed of the kick never reached FTL? No?

To explain simply, it means that the speed at which Boros kicked Saitama upwards must be faster than the speed of light, in order to send Saitama up to the moon at a speed of 0.9 c.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Well, I didn't understand exactly what the calculation problem was...

I mean, the speed of the kick never reached FTL? No?

Acceleration is the problem, the acceleration is what reached FTL

 

[EnderLord8]

Hey, I was wondering... If the CRSC melts the entire earth's crust does that mean the monster association would eventually get melted too? That if this is real, it would scale the temperature of the CRSC above the heat of the phoenix man flames...

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Hey, I was wondering... If the CRSC melts the entire earth's crust does that mean the monster association would eventually get melted too? That if this is real, it would scale the temperature of the CRSC above the heat of the phoenix man flames...

Not the thread for this and I doubt it.

 

[Aachintya31]

Hey, I was wondering... If the CRSC melts the entire earth's crust does that mean the monster association would eventually get melted too? That if this is real, it would scale the temperature of the CRSC above the heat of the phoenix man flames...

This is derailing.

 

[EnderLord8]

I know I was getting off track, and I apologize for that, but I wanted to know if it was possible to do a CRT...

 

[omegabronic]

To explain simply, it means that the speed at which Boros kicked Saitama upwards must be faster than the speed of light, in order to send Saitama up to the moon at a speed of 0.9 c.

wouldn't that upgrade boros tho?

 

[Epiccheev]

wouldn't that upgrade boros tho?

I mean, he's already likely getting possibly 6.7c in Shmeaty's thread

 

[Second22]

wouldn't that upgrade boros tho?

There is no acceptance of the calculation of force from a speed FTL. So, no.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

To explain simply, it means that the speed at which Boros kicked Saitama upwards must be faster than the speed of light, in order to send Saitama up to the moon at a speed of 0.9 c.

That makes no sense, because it’s implying that Boros was moving saitama at ftl speed, when in reality both Boros’ leg and Saitama were only going 90% sol

There is no acceptance of the calculation of force from a speed FTL. So, no.

The 90% sol wasn’t even derived from a KE value to begin with.

Acceleration is the problem, the acceleration is what reached FTL

Acceleration can’t be faster than light to begin with, ftl is a speed while acceleration is just a rate of change, they’re unrelated concepts.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And yes, if Boros’ leg needed to move at ftl speed in order to toss saitama to the moon, then the feat would scale Boros to ftl to begin with, but it’s literally just accepted at 90% sol.
Either the calc becomes ftl scaling or it becomes class P, you can’t just say it’s unacceptable on grounds of it being ftl and then not scale Boros to ftl

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Bud, several knowledgeable calc members have told you the feat has FTL acceleration and can't be used, if you wanna question whether that belief is true or false or you want to change the way we treat it in calcs you should problem make a calc discussion thread.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Bud, several knowledgeable calc members have told you the feat has FTL acceleration and can't be used, if you wanna question whether that belief is true or false or you want to change the way we treat it in calcs you should problem make a calc discussion thread.

Or we don’t need to do that, and we just give Boros that ftl rating

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Anyways this is simple enough to where I can still point out fishy things about it despite not being a cgm, this is seemingly very basic physics
If Boros’ leg, while carrying saitama, was moving at 90% of the speed of light, then the moment the contact ended Saitama would have had a starting velocity of .9c which of course would mean the calculation is valid
Of course, if Boros’ had ftl acceleration, then that would mean that both his leg and saitama were moving at ftl speeds during the kick, which would make Boros ftl
but this isn’t the case to begin with since the kick was stated to be “near” light speeds, meaning that the calculation most likely still holds up in that end
you are very clearly doing something wrong if you’re claiming that a .9c kick had ftl acceleration.

 

[omegabronic]

There is no acceptance of the calculation of force from a speed FTL. So, no.

for the acceleration speed i meant

 

[Second22]

for the acceleration speed i meant

Boros moved his leg 1.25 meters, so the acceleration calculated would make his kicking speed faster than light.

 

[omegabronic]

Boros moved his leg 1.25 meters, so the acceleration calculated would make his kicking speed faster than light.

yeah, and we scale boros to that in the profile, that is why he is relativistic+

 

[Second22]

Okay, first of all, if Boros' kick is FTL, then why isn't Boros FTL? That's because it's FTL, which makes it impossible to use as a reference. Boros as FTL based on force calculations is incorrect. We can only assume that he reached a speed of 0.9 c.

Secondly, why is the acceleration greater than the speed of light? Even though the velocity at which Saitama was bounced was only 0.9c, to put it simply, Boros had to use an enormous amount of force and speed at a distance of only 1.25m to send Saitama to a distance of 384,400,000m - kicking him away at near-light speed. Therefore, Boros' kick wasn't equal to the speed with which Saitama bounced off the moon.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And there’s the problem, thus is quite literally just a case of Newton’s first law
If Boros’ leg was moving at ftl speeds, then saitama would have continued fly at ftl speed, which we know to not be the case

But the even more incredibly obvious issue is that you’re claiming that Boros’ leg was moving at ftl speed, while simultaneously claiming that Boros can’t move at ftl speeds, it’s an extremely fundamental contradiction that anybody can see regardless of the math.
Saitama went from being at rest to moving at 90% the speed of light, and because Boros’ leg was the force causing it, we know that Boros’ leg went from at rest to being 90% the speed of light
That is not ftl acceleration, that is relativistic+ acceleration.
Where is this sudden jump from ftl to rela+ coming from? In fact, you can’t even blame this on air friction or anything considering that it was stated that saitama was launched at near ftl speed, meaning that during the entire scene Boros’ leg never goes past ftl.

 

[Cyber_VERGIL]

And there’s the problem, thus is quite literally just a case of Newton’s first law
If Boros’ leg was moving at ftl speeds, then saitama would have continued fly at ftl speed, which we know to not be the case

But the even more incredibly obvious issue is that you’re claiming that Boros’ leg was moving at ftl speed, while simultaneously claiming that Boros can’t move at ftl speeds, it’s an extremely fundamental contradiction that anybody can see regardless of the math.
Saitama went from being at rest to moving at 90% the speed of light, and because Boros’ leg was the force causing it, we know that Boros’ leg went from at rest to being 90% the speed of light
That is not ftl acceleration, that is relativistic+ acceleration.
Where is this sudden jump from ftl to rela+ coming from? In fact, you can’t even blame this on air friction or anything considering that it was stated that saitama was launched at near ftl speed, meaning that during the entire scene Boros’ leg never goes past ftl.

Change your avatar, please.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

I see what Ziller is saying and I looked it up

It turns out Ziller is completely right

I'm not gonna try to explain it but here's what this guys said
"Acceleration and speed a fundamentally different things. Speed is the change in position over time. Acceleration is the change in speed over time. Relativity limits speed not acceleration."

Some more sources:

• https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/can-you-accelerate-faster-than-the-speed-of-light.456739/
• https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possibl...elerate-at-300-000-000m-s-2-for-half-a-second
• https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...city per,given time, acceleration is infinite.

So since Boros's kick is not FTL and Acceleration has no upper limit, the Class P calc would be valid

Though I'd prefer if we went with the F=MA version of the calc I did above instead of Work

 

[Qawsedf234]

So since Boros's kick is not FTL and Acceleration has no upper limit, the Class P calc would be valid

So would we use Kachon's value or the other one?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

So would we use Kachon's value or the other one?

Either work but in my opinion I would use F=MA because it requires Velocity and Mass and since we have a statement about the Velocity it'd be better than using a calced value for Work which is Force * Displacement