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Boros Lifting Strength Downgrade

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Second22 said:
To be honest, I've used GPT to find various results many times, and often GPT gives me inaccurate calculations.
Click to expand...
Gpt3.5 is awful yeah
Gpt4 is an entirely different case, however.

Here’s the full calc gpt4 provided based on the prompt “how much force would it take to accelerate a 70kg object to 90% the speed of light in 1.25023382 meters”
First, let's find the final velocity (v). Ignoring relativity, we can use the formula:

v = 0.9 * c

where c is the speed of light (approximately 299,792,458 m/s).

v ≈ 0.9 * 299,792,458 v ≈ 269,813,212.2 m/s

Now that we have the final velocity, we can find the acceleration (a) using the formula:

a = v^2 / (2 * d)

where d is the distance (1.25023382 meters).

a = (269,813,212.2)^2 / (2 * 1.25023382) a ≈ 3.09286479 * 10^16 m/s^2

Now we can find the force (F) using Newton's second law:

F = m * a

where m is the mass of the object (70 kg).

F = 70 * 3.09286479 * 10^16 F ≈ 2.16500536 * 10^18 N

So, approximately 2.165 * 10^18 Newtons of force would be needed to accelerate a 70 kg object to 90% of the speed of light in 1.25023382 meters
Click to expand...
In other words, the same damn value Kachon got
Pretty damn neat, huh?
 
ZillertheBucko said:
In other words, the same damn value Kachon got
Pretty damn neat, huh?
Click to expand...
If the speed of the launch itself at the point of impact is 0.9c, meaning after the kick the velocity can only go down due to deceleration, and the initial velocity is Boros's leg at rest, this makes no sense.
 
Kachon123 said:
We start with Saitama being launched at 0.9c
Click to expand...
I'm just gonna post the chatgpt log from the beginning of the entire calc, starting from the energy.

Me: A person weighing 70 kilograms was kicked to the moon at 0.9c. The leg that did the kick acted over a distance of 1.25 meters. Using relativistic kinetic energy, find the energy involved in the kick. Then, find the force involved.

GPT:
To find the energy involved in the kick, we can use the formula for relativistic kinetic energy:

K = (mc^2) * (1/sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2) - 1)

where K is kinetic energy, m is mass, c is the speed of light, and v is velocity.

Plugging in the given values, we get:

K = (70 kg * (299792458 m/s)^2) * (1/sqrt(1 - (0.9c)^2/(c)^2) - 1) K = 7.643956683489883e+20 J

So the energy involved in the kick is approximately 7.64 x 10^20 J.

To find the force involved in the kick, we can use the formula for work:

W = F*d

where W is work, F is force, and d is distance.

We also know that the energy involved in the kick is equal to the work done:

K = W

Plugging in the given values for K and d, we get:

W = 7.643956683489883e+20 J d = 1.25 m

So we can solve for the force F:

F = W/d

Plugging in the values, we get:

F = 7.643956683489883e+20 J / 1.25 m F = 6.115165346791906e+20 N

So the force involved in the kick is approximately 6.12 x 10^20 N.

Me: Further refine for force under relativistic effects

GPT:
If the person was initially at rest and was kicked to a final velocity of 0.9c, we can find the energy involved in the kick using the formula for relativistic kinetic energy:

E = (γ - 1)mc^2

where γ is the Lorentz factor given by:

γ = 1 / sqrt(1 - (v/c)^2)

m is the mass of the person (70 kg), c is the speed of light, and v is the final velocity (0.9c).

Substituting the values, we get:

γ = 1 / sqrt(1 - (0.9c/c)^2) ≈ 2.94

E = (2.94 - 1) * (70 kg) * (299792458 m/s)^2 ≈ 1.28 x 10^17 J

To find the force involved, we can use the formula:

F = ma

where m is the mass of the person (70 kg), and a is the acceleration, which we can calculate using the formula:

a = (γ - 1) * c^2 / d

where d is the distance over which the force was applied, which we know is 1.25 meters.

Substituting the values, we get:

a = (2.94 - 1) * (299792458 m/s)^2 / (1.25 m) ≈ 6.60 x 10^18 m/s^2

F = (70 kg) * (6.60 x 10^18 m/s^2) ≈ 4.62 x 10^20 N

So the force involved in the kick is approximately 4.62 x 10^20 Newtons, and the final velocity of the person is approximately 0.9 times the speed of light.

Additionally, according to the theory of relativity, an object with mass can never reach the speed of light, and as it approaches the speed of light, its mass would increase and the amount of energy required to accelerate it further would also increase. The maximum velocity an object with mass can attain is thus always less than the speed of light.
 
Golden_Void said:
I think 3.5
Click to expand...
oh
uh the thing is, gpt3.5 is actually incredibly stupid, and only really excels at doing simple stuff insanely quickly
in terms of logic, gpt4 is like unironically at least 5 times better
so it's weird that it got 10^20 multiple times, when gpt4 got 10^18 consistently on my end.
 
ZillertheBucko said:
oh
uh the thing is, gpt3.5 is actually incredibly stupid, and only really excels at doing simple stuff insanely quickly
in terms of logic, gpt4 is like unironically at least 5 times better
so it's weird that it got 10^20 multiple times, when gpt4 got 10^18 consistently on my end.
Click to expand...
Your GPT explicitly stated it ignored relativity, which might have something to do with it. I trained mine before/during the process to perfect the accuracy
 
Golden_Void said:
Your GPT explicitly stated it ignored relativity, which might have something to do with it. I trained mine before/during the process to perfect the accuracy
Click to expand...
well relativity would change the force, not the speed (it being ftl was the main thing that matters) but here ya go, it does some shit I do not understand at all, it's above my paygrade right now
As I mentioned earlier, calculating the force required to accelerate a 70 kg object to 90% of the speed of light in 1.25023382 meters while considering relativity involves solving a transcendental equation, which typically requires numerical methods. I will attempt to provide an approximate solution using a simplification of the problem. First, let's calculate the rapidity (ϕ) required to reach 90% of the speed of light. Rapidity is an alternative measure of velocity in special relativity and is additive, unlike velocities themselves. It can be calculated using the following formula: ϕ = arctanh(v/c) where v is the desired velocity (0.9c), and c is the speed of light. ϕ = arctanh(0.9) ϕ ≈ 1.47221949 Next, let's find the proper acceleration (a') required to cover the distance (d) in the object's rest frame. This can be calculated using the following formula: d = (c^2 / a') * (cosh(ϕ) - 1) Solving for a': a' = (c^2 / d) * (cosh(ϕ) - 1) a' = (299,792,458^2 / 1.25023382) * (cosh(1.47221949) - 1) a' ≈ 3.20620227 * 10^16 m/s^2 Now we need to calculate the force (F) in the object's initial rest frame, which can be found using the following formula: F = m * a * γ where m is the object's rest mass (70 kg), a is the proper acceleration (a'), and γ is the Lorentz factor, which can be calculated as: γ = 1 / sqrt(1 - (v^2 / c^2)) For 90% of the speed of light: γ = 1 / sqrt(1 - (0.9 * c)^2 / c^2) γ ≈ 2.29415734 Finally, we can calculate the force (F): F = 70 * 3.20620227 * 10^16 * 2.29415734 F ≈ 5.125 * 10^18 N Please note that this is still an approximate solution, as it does not fully account for the complexity of the problem. The force required to accelerate a 70 kg object to 90% of the speed of light in 1.25023382 meters while considering relativity is approximately 5.125 * 10^18 Newtons.
Click to expand...
this was confirmed after reflexion to increase accuracy as well.
but absically it's about double the force
 
ZillertheBucko said:
well relativity would change the force, not the speed (it being ftl was the main thing that matters) but here ya go, it does some shit I do not understand at all, it's above my paygrade right now

this was confirmed after reflexion to increase accuracy as well.
but absically it's about double the force
Click to expand...
💀this machine is talking about transcendentals and rapidity, its doing way too much for this feat
 
Golden_Void said:
💀this machine is talking about transcendentals and rapidity, its doing way too much for this feat
Click to expand...
shit gets serious real quick when you ask about relativity
Here’s what it said in its initial response, which it later claimed that it corrected by doing that more complex stuff, but I’ll just leave it here anyways for documentation
When considering relativity, the calculations become more complex. As an object's velocity approaches the speed of light, its mass increases due to relativistic effects. This means that the force needed to continue accelerating the object also increases.

To account for this, we use the concept of relativistic mass (m_r), which is given by the formula:

m_r = m / sqrt(1 - (v^2 / c^2))

where m is the object's rest mass (70 kg), v is its velocity, and c is the speed of light (approximately 299,792,458 m/s).

Since the object's mass increases with its velocity, the acceleration will not be constant. Therefore, we can't directly use the classical equations of motion to find the force. Instead, we can refer to the work-energy theorem, which states that the work done (W) on an object is equal to the change in its kinetic energy (ΔK):

W = ΔK = K_f - K_i

where K_f is the final kinetic energy, and K_i is the initial kinetic energy (0, assuming the object is initially at rest). The kinetic energy of a relativistic object is given by:

K = (m_r - m) * c^2

We want the object to reach 90% of the speed of light (v = 0.9 * c). So, we can find the relativistic mass (m_r) at that velocity:

m_r = 70 / sqrt(1 - (0.9 * c)^2 / c^2) m_r ≈ 153.93 kg

Now we can find the change in kinetic energy (ΔK):

ΔK = (153.93 - 70) * c^2 ΔK ≈ 1.259 * 10^19 J

Since work (W) is equal to the force (F) multiplied by the distance (d) over which it is applied:

F = W / d

where d is the distance (1.25023382 meters).

F = 1.259 * 10^19 J / 1.25023382 m F ≈ 1.007 * 10^19 N

Therefore, approximately 1.007 * 10^19 Newtons of force would be needed to accelerate a 70 kg object to 90% of the speed of light in 1.25023382 meters when considering relativity. Keep in mind that these calculations are still a simplification of the problem, and a more rigorous treatment would involve solving the equations of motion in the context of special relativity.
Click to expand...
 
Kachon123 said:
What would you like to change it to?
Click to expand...
I want to add the a to Saitama
ZillertheBucko said:
shit gets serious real quick when you ask about relativity
Here’s what it said in its initial response, which it later claimed that it corrected by doing that more complex stuff, but I’ll just leave it here anyways for documentation
Click to expand...
Oof

Working out relativistic force seems like a shit time tbh
 
I wish we could keep relativity out of this but it's basically inevitable
and I'm about out of gpt4 prompt tokens for the next 2 and a half hours, so I don't think I can fiddle with it much more.
we may need to do...(begins to throw up)
MATH
auuughhhh
 
You should probably make a Calculation Group Thread for the acceleration thing, I wasn't really given a reason why FTL acceleration wasn't allowed, I was just told it isn't.

Even if I think it should be fine, we can't just ignore the recommend of the Calc Group, there's probably a reason it's not allowed.

Or maybe not.
 
Using the work formula would make Saitama Class Y for his moon jump feat, shame he's already pre-stellar. Would be nice if monster Garou could scale tho
 
Therefir said:
You should probably make a Calculation Group Thread for the acceleration thing, I wasn't really given a reason why FTL acceleration wasn't allowed, I was just told it isn't.
Click to expand...
Ftl acceleration isn’t allowed if the feat actually accelerates to ftl
but in this case, that doesn’t apply since it’s only 90% sol
 
Remember: the feat was 90% sol, so it being accelerated to ftl was never a risk to begin with
We derive the timeframe and force from the 90% sol, not deriving ftl from the timeframe and force
 
ZillertheBucko said:
Remember: the feat was 90% sol, so it being accelerated to ftl was never a risk to begin with
We derive the timeframe and force from the 90% sol, not deriving ftl from the timeframe and force
Click to expand...
ChatGPT said we good

"According to the theory of relativity, the speed of light is an absolute limit for the velocity of any object. However, acceleration is not limited by the speed of light. An object can have an acceleration greater than the speed of light, but it cannot travel faster than the speed of light.

When an object's acceleration exceeds the speed of light, it means that the object's velocity is increasing at a rate faster than the speed of light. However, this does not violate the theory of relativity, as long as the object's velocity does not exceed the speed of light."
 
Why do I get the feeling that this is a strange loophole that you are using to get around?

Ok, you should make an update thread and ask a Content Moderator to review it, at this point I don't expect one to show up and accept the upgrade, this thread wasn't even meant for that to begin with.

Has the calc been accepted at least?
 
Therefir said:
Why do I get the feeling that this is a strange loophole that you are using to get around?
Click to expand...
Not really a loophole
Ftl feats aren’t accepted for KE, but the feat here was never ftl to begin with since it’s 90% of the speed of light
 
This thread turned into a theory thread; I would recommend when all is said and done, we make a new thread using the agreed upon calcs so it is neater. This thread is a wasteland lmao
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Yeah just use Kachon or mines for RN


I'm literally learning Relativistic Mechanics so I can calc this bitch
Click to expand...
images
 
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