Meliodas and Zeldris vs Asta and Yuno

[Dooyo]

You forget Yuno can cast two spells simultaneously without mana zone

so with Manazone he casts double spirit storms on them to support Asta ******* them up.

And you forgot that speed is equalized, meaning that both Mel and Zel can react to his spells easily.

Zeldoris has god and is immune to magic attack and Meliodas has Full Counter.

Magic attack are useless against any of them in this matche.

 

[Dooyo]

How many amps?

Demon mark and Assault mode, both amps being on his 6C key profile.

Asta only has Black Asta as his amp on his 6C key profile.

 

[Dooyo]

ON is magic because it utilizes darkness which is magic drop this debunked point

endurance, stamina, are inapplicable here. Anti magic negs regen. And what the hell is up with this circular reasoning I legit told you Asta adapts to skill and you’re asking him how it’s going to save him from “skill”. Asta literally just needs to predict their “skill”

Speed is equal,

Asta evolves in battle at an extremely fast rate. And he has amps too, and there is nothing those two can do against Anti magic.

What rebuttal? Someone literally shows you that Darkness in the Demon Clan isn't magic.

How endurance and stamina are inapplicable? That is literally natural elements of any fighting lol.

Anti magic negs regeneration from magical source, which isn't what the Darkness of the Demon Clan is.

Elaborate on what you mean by adapting to skill? Show me scans so that I grasp the extent of his adaptation skill.

Evolve in battle, sure but at which level of 'fast' rate, there is a huge gap between base Mel and Demon Mark Mel as we know via power level in NNT verse, how you quantify it for Asta? Without using your headcanon and NLF?

Meliodas amps are easily higher than your pathetic evolution at fast rate lol, because base Mel is already in 6C and we know his Demon Mark form literally one shot his own base, that is how high his amps are.

 

[Arkenis]

Asta only has Black Asta as his amp on his 6C key profile.

Yuno should be able to amp him as they did against Zagred. And

• Reactive Power Level: (During his battle against Vetto, Asta was able to intercept and deflect Vetto's Forbidden Magic beam despite being completely overpowered by a more suppressed Vetto moments before. Adapted in a short period of time to Magna's fire balls, where each fire ball becomes invisible halfway through and randomly teleport around the target right before hitting them. Went from not being able to track a single throw even with ki sensing to being able to deflect a barrage of them for several minutes, thus without moving much and while protecting the crystal behind him)

• Accelerated Development: (Training and Battle: Physical Stats and Abilities [Frequently surpasses his own limits during battles, especially when his back is again the wall or close to death. This allows him to develop new techniques or improve his physical abilities on the spot])

 

[Dooyo]

Yuno should be able to amp him as they did against Zagred. And

• Reactive Power Level: (During his battle against Vetto, Asta was able to intercept and deflect Vetto's Forbidden Magic beam despite being completely overpowered by a more suppressed Vetto moments before. Adapted in a short period of time to Magna's fire balls, where each fire ball becomes invisible halfway through and randomly teleport around the target right before hitting them. Went from not being able to track a single throw even with ki sensing to being able to deflect a barrage of them for several minutes, thus without moving much and while protecting the crystal behind him)

• Accelerated Development: (Training and Battle: Physical Stats and Abilities [Frequently surpasses his own limits during battles, especially when his back is again the wall or close to death. This allows him to develop new techniques or improve his physical abilities on the spot])

Their amps isn't at the level, they could one shot their previous point that they surpassed, it just a little bit higher.

But via power level in NNT, we know that Demon Mark Mel can literally one tap his Base form, that is how large the gap is.

Forgot Assault mode which has the gap even more higher, my point is that Mel can assess to those amps instantly whereas Asta is gradually increasing his level throughout battle via reactive power level.

It is obvious who has the fastest way to getting amped here, if you aren't disingenuous.

 

[Arkenis]

Their amps isn't at the level, they could one shot their previous point that they surpassed, it just a little bit higher.

But via power level in NNT, we know that Demon Mark Mel can literally one tap his Base form, that is how large the gap is.

Forgot Assault mode which has the gap is even more higher, my point is that Mel can assess to those amps instantly whereas Asta is gradually increasing his level throughout battle via reactive power level.

It is obvious who has the fastest way to getting amped here, if you aren't disingenuous.

I think they both can grow stronger but Asta can keep growing stronger while Mel has a limit.

 

[Dooyo]

I think they both can grow stronger but Asta can keep growing stronger while Mel has a limit.

But Mel is faster at growing stronger and get a massive boost via a mode and therefore can kill him BEFORE he grows that strong.

One use a mode to get amps, the other use reactive power level to get amps and slowly surpass his previous limits.

Meliodas can literally match him in base at the beginning and suddenly go Demon Mark and one shot him lol.

Keep in mind that just in base, Meliodas is in 6C range.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

And you forgot that speed is equalized, meaning that both Mel and Zel can react to his spells easily.

Zeldoris has god and is immune to magic attack and Meliodas has Full Counter.

Magic attack are useless against any of them in this matche.

You forgot spirit storm can be activated at point blank range. So they’d be too busy getting beat up and negged by Asta to notice.

Anti magic negates God and Full counter.

magic attacks are useful against them

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Demon mark and Assault mode, both amps being on his 6C key profile.

Asta only has Black Asta as his amp on his 6C key profile.

Yuno has spirit magic, mana zone, and spirit dive amps.

 

[Majinere566]

I'm unfollowing this

I hate BC vs NNT matches so much

 

[Dooyo]

You forgot spirit storm can be activated at point blank range. So they’d be too busy getting beat up and negged by Asta to notice.

Anti magic negates God and Full counter.

magic attacks are useful against them

And you forgot that Zeldoris god ability to negate magic is passive, unlike Mel.

While Mel is taking on Asta by himself, Zeldoris will finish Yuno as he is just a walking magic guy and Zeldoris is literally his kryptonite.

Explain how Anti magic negate full Counter and god, without affecting Yuno's magic as well as he is near him too.

 

[Dooyo]

Yuno has spirit magic, mana zone, and spirit dive amps.

All useless because of Full Counter and god.

And don't say Asta's anti magic because it affects Yuno's magic as well, Anti magic negs any magic indiscriminately, enemy or ally, as long as it is on its range of action.

And Yuno without magic is useless, he is obviously the weakest here.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

What rebuttal? Someone literally shows you that Darkness in the Demon Clan isn't magic.

And I debunked them with their own scan and my own scan. read the thread.

How endurance and stamina are inapplicable? That is literally natural elements of any fighting lol.

Yeah if the fight is even.

it’s not. Asta and Yuno have the advantage.

Anti magic negs regeneration from magical source, which isn't what the Darkness of the Demon Clan is.

Darkness is magic, your job is refute the debunk otherwise drop the baseless claim. It has been extensively discussed and I’m tired.

Elaborate on what you mean by adapting to skill? Show me scans so that I grasp the extent of his adaptation skill.

Go to page 3

Asta went from not being able to predict fireballs that go invisible at unpredictable moments and appear elsewhere, to blocking a barrage of those fireballs on the third try.

Asta copied dance magic with a glance

Learnt how to read life force and predict moves on the second try.

Etc. I sent scans of the first one.

Evolve in battle, sure but at which level of 'fast' rate, there is a huge gap between base Mel and Demon Mark Mel as we know via power level in NNT verse, how you quantify it for Asta? Without using your headcanon and NLF?

Sigh.

Meliodas amps are easily higher than your pathetic evolution at fast rate lol, because base Mel is already in 6C and we know his Demon Mark form literally one shot his own base, that is how high his amps are.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I'm unfollowing this

I hate BC vs NNT matches so much

man, Seems like I’ll do the same till new arguments come up

Tired of hearing about skills that have no substance to it and repeating claims that has been debunked.

I’ll go back to working on revisions and finishing the speed stuff.

 

[Dooyo]

And I debunked them with their own scan and my own scan. read the thread.



Yeah if the fight is even.

it’s not. Asta and Yuno have the advantage.




Darkness is magic, your job is refute the debunk otherwise drop the baseless claim. It has been extensively discussed and I’m tired.




Go to page 3

Asta went from not being able to predict fireballs that go invisible at unpredictable moments and appear elsewhere, to blocking a barrage of those fireballs on the third try.

Asta copied dance magic with a glance

Learnt how to read life force and predict moves on the second try.

Etc. I sent scans of the first one.




Sigh.

You actually didn't, it is revealed numerous times in the manga that Darkness isn't magic.

Which it is, all parties are in the same tier.

Asta and Yuno have zero advantages, Asta literally downgrades Yuno when he unleashes his Anti magic, don't act like Yuno's magic will work when Asta is beside him lol.

And in the same page, you got debunked with Meliodas vs Golgius, doing the exact same thing.

He can copy Meliodas's moves but he has not thr stamina to keep up the pace for long before slowly down eventually.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

All useless because of Full Counter and god.

And don't say Asta's anti magic because it affects Yuno's magic as well, Anti magic negs any magic indiscriminately, enemy or ally, as long as it is on its range of action.

And Yuno without magic is useless, he is obviously the weakest here.

Sorry anti magic negs Meliodas and Zeldris and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it but continue to cry and make baseless claims like this one that has been debunked since the BEGINNING OF THIS THREAD.

It’s clear you’re biased and just outright lazy to read the threads, unless you actually did read the thread but are incapable of comprehending arguments against you or formulating a coherent arguments.

bye

 

[Dooyo]

Sorry anti magic negs Meliodas and Zeldris and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it but continue to cry and make baseless claims like this one that has been debunked since the BEGINNING OF THIS THREAD.

It’s clear you’re biased and just outright lazy to read the threads, unless you actually did read the thread but are incapable of formulating a coherent arguments.

bye

You keep saying that Anti magic negs them without elaborating how?

Meliodas is mostly a purely physical raw fighter anyway, same for Zeldoris.

Anti magic is useless against physical attack as highlighted by Lucius in the recent chapter in case you missed.

And Yuno arsenal is negged as long as Asta use Anti magic or spam it in the battlefield. He can't throw hands and Zeldoris negs him in a pure physical brawl.

You clearly has bias toward BC without taking time to be objective for once.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

You actually didn't, it is revealed numerous times in the manga that Darkness isn't magic.

Prove it.

show me, show everyone, stop making claims that has been said in the past and debunked or are simply unfounded.

send scans.

 

[Dooyo]

Prove it.

For instance, the TCs magic was sealed by the Goddess seal and it was confirmed that their magic was 0 in power level.

They literally needed an entire arc to replenish their magic but guess what? They still could use their Darkness despite their magic being sealed and at 0.

If you know NNT, you clearly understand what I am talking about.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

For instance, the TCs magic was sealed by the Goddess seal and it was confirmed that their magic was 0 in power level.

They literally needed an entire arc to replenish their magic but guess what? They still could use their Darkness despite their magic being sealed and at 0.

If you know NNT, you clearly understand what I am talking about.

Their magic wasn't completely drained, Zeldris acknowledges the drain in magic and tells his comrades to “take it easy”, (chapter 105)implying they had some magic left. Till Galaand drained his own supply completely and fought Meliodas and gang with physical strength (120). Infact in that same fight Meliodas controls his darkness and it was referred to as magic, blatantly.

and no I’m not knowledgeable in NNT but I know what you’re talking about because it has been discussed extensively in the thread

is this the only example NNT fans keep bringing?

 

[Dooyo]

Their magic wasn't completely drained, Zeldris acknowledges the drain in magic and tells his comrades to “take it easy”, (chapter 105)implying they had some magic left. Till Galaand drained his own supply completely and fought Meliodas and gang with physical strength (120). Infact in that same fight Meliodas controls his darkness and it was referred to as magic, blatantly.

and no I’m not knowledgeable in NNT but I know what you’re talking about because it has been discussed extensively in the thread

is this the only example NNT fans keep bringing?

I said that their magic was stated to be 0.

You understand what 0 means?

They were trying to absorb some magic from the land and from.few souls that they find around.

My point is that they could use Darkness despite their magic being at 0, as soon as the seal was broken, they manifested wings.

 

[VsReferee]

I'm sorry to break it to you but darkness is magic and can be nulled

darkness based attacks have been nulled/full countered. Plus it's unnatural as the new power system said(destroyer type)

So, the DM marks and Assault mode are magical forms?

And Speedster dont post on my wall lol

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I said that their magic was stated to be 0.

You understand what 0 means?

They were trying to absorb some magic from the land and from.few souls that they find around.

My point is that they could use Darkness despite their magic being at 0, as soon as the seal was broken, they manifested wings.

Another hasty generalization grouping Galaand to others,

just because there is a statement 15 whole chapters after Galaand manifested wings doesn’t mean their magic has always been the same.

Zeldris confirms they still have some magic left by asking his comrades to take it easy, so it’s obvious that Galaand used up the little he had to fly and do other offscreen things.

unless you can provide scans of statements for Zeldris and the other demons immediately after the seal broken. Don’t bring this point up again.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Apparently, from info I received, this is what would happen

first thing that happens is the passives, commandments then they land their hax gg the end.

 

[Arkenis]

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Apparently, from info I received, this is what would happen

Speedster man...

 

[Tatsumi504]

Zeldris confirms they still have some magic left by asking his comrades to take it easy, so it’s obvious that Galaand used up the little he had to fly and do other offscreen things.

unless you can provide scans of statements for Zeldris and the other demons immediately after the seal broken. Don’t bring this point up again

I don't think so? Merlin attributes gallands magic being 0 to the after effects of the goddess seal.

Galland and the commandments don't really do anything either during the period after the seal was broken besides trying to recharge their magic not to mention galland literally jumps all the way to Camelot, he doesn't fly evidenced by him saying he was trying to get there in only 70 steps i think? he also headed straight for them.

Like I said previously, my NNT knowledge is really shaky+ I haven't even finished it (probably stopped at where escape asked mael to lend him his grace one more time) so don't take my word for it.

 

[Tatsumi504]

But before any of that, how tf did the thread get this long! Also stopped receiving notifications.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don't think so? Merlin attributes gallands magic being 0 to the after effects of the goddess seal.

Galland and the commandments don't really do anything either during the period after the seal was broken besides trying to recharge their magic not to mention galland literally jumps all the way to Camelot, he doesn't fly evidenced by him saying he was trying to get there in only 70 steps i think? he also headed straight for them.

Like I said previously, my NNT knowledge is really shaky+ I haven't even finished it (probably stopped at where escape asked mael to lend him his grace one more time) so don't take my word for it.

Your post kinda buttresses my point.

Anyway about my own post, Look at the scan Speedster sent me in my wall, first panel is from chapter 120, the second panel from chapter 105.

In chapter 105 Zeldris said they should take it easy because the seal sapped their magic. Implying they had very little magic left so they basically used it to fly.

What NNT fans are trying to do is take an utterly drained Galaand from chapter 120, to say he was utterly drained in the past (105) and not very drained with very little magic left to fly and I guess Galaand wasted his off panel.

Look at how I interpret the scan in my next post. I will resend the same scan with a different intepretation in the right order.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I don't think so? Merlin attributes gallands magic being 0 to the after effects of the goddess seal.

Galland and the commandments don't really do anything either during the period after the seal was broken besides trying to recharge their magic not to mention galland literally jumps all the way to Camelot, he doesn't fly evidenced by him saying he was trying to get there in only 70 steps i think? he also headed straight for them.

Like I said previously, my NNT knowledge is really shaky+ I haven't even finished it (probably stopped at where escape asked mael to lend him his grace one more time) so don't take my word for it.

Zeldris states they still have some left in the tank due to the goddess sapping their magic so they should take it easy. Galaand's magic reaches a 0 by chapter 120 and he no longer flies with darkness after that fight like you said.

So the obvious conclusion is that Galaand used up the little he had left and resorted to jumping.

 

[Tatsumi504]

In chapter 105 Zeldris said they should take it easy because the seal sapped their magic. Implying they had very little magic left so they basically used it to fly.

Not when the context is galland previously saying they should take over Britannia though? Why do you also think saying "let's take it easy" means they have some magic left?

Following the context;

• Galland (let's hurry and take over Britannia and kill the humans)
• Zeldris (first things first. Let's take it easy, the goddess seal has sapped our magic)

Why take it easy if you still have magic left?
Following further context still points to them having zero magic, especially from merlin attributing gallands 0 to the effects of the goddess seal.

Despite possible off screen scenario's, nothing points to gall and expending his magic on the way there, further evidenced by moonspeet using up all his magic on one <hellfire bird> despite recharging far longer than galland.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Not when the context is galland previously saying they should take over Britannia though? Why do you also think saying "let's take it easy" means they have some magic left?

So they don't waste the little they have left?

Why take it easy if you still have magic left?
Following further context still points to them having zero magic, especially from merlin attributing gallands 0 to the effects of the goddess seal

I think I already answered this in the last post just above this.

she would still attribute it to the goddess seal if the magic was 1 or 2 or even 10 because it’s simply far too small so obviously she’s point fingers to the seal.

Despite possible off screen scenario's, nothing points to gall and expending his magic on the way there, further evidenced by moonspeet using up all his magic on one <hellfire bird> despite recharging far longer than galland.

Explain. I don’t think I get why you used Moonspeet.

 

[Arkenis]

Ok so I have a question, I've read up to post Hendrikson demon fight, are demons just unable to regenerate their magic naturally? Is it just that they always need to eat souls or steal other's magic to replenish it?

 

[Tatsumi504]

So they don't waste the little they have left

Could also mean they need to recuperate because they had 0 magic too. Demons overall are far stronger than the humans. They'd be able to handle basically everything with or without magic.

I think I already answered this in the last post just above this.

she would still attribute it to the goddess seal if the magic was 1 or 2 or even 10 because it’s simply far too small so obviously she’s point fingers to the seal.

Fair point

Explain. I don’t think I get why you used Moonspeet.

Can't remember exactly but when they were traveling to the land of the druids (I think), monspeet sensed them and wanting to see if it was Meliodas group, he fired a (hellfire bird at them). If it was Meliodas, he'd have to either use full counter or counter vanish to handle it.
All in all hawk mama ate the fire, so he couldn't tell. Immediately after, he then comments on how he had wasted what little magic he had replenished.
This even further shows that replenishing your magic after its exhausted isn't easy as they had been recuperating for a while.

 

[Overlord1]

Sorry if the English is not correct.

I don't know why so much confusion. It is more than clear that demons do not use magic when they were released from the seal and proving otherwise would require a good claim that there was magic at that time. Think about it, the commandments can be overthrown by any powerful enemy as they know nothing of the last 3000 years. That's why Zeldris warns you to be careful, otherwise I doubt the Demon King's powerful elite won't attack an inferior race right away. And of course, if they say Fraudrin informed them, remember Escanor and Meliodas himself (who himself posed a great threat to all demons. Who would be crazy to face Meliodas in that state?).

I don't know how to put images so I count on supporters to complement.

Anyway, a good example of demonic physiology is Galand's first encounters with zero magic. Meliodas injured him on 2 occasions, and both times the bleeding stopped moments later. A nice detail is that Galand doesn't seem to be a big fan of dark matter.

Hope this helps.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Sorry if the English is not correct.

I don't know why so much confusion. It is more than clear that demons do not use magic when they were released from the seal and proving otherwise would require a good claim that there was magic at that time. Think about it, the commandments can be overthrown by any powerful enemy as they know nothing of the last 3000 years. That's why Zeldris warns you to be careful, otherwise I doubt the Demon King's powerful elite won't attack an inferior race right away. And of course, if they say Fraudrin informed them, remember Escanor and Meliodas himself (who himself posed a great threat to all demons. Who would be crazy to face Meliodas in that state?).

I don't know how to put images so I count on supporters to complement.

Anyway, a good example of demonic physiology is Galand's first encounters with zero magic. Meliodas injured him on 2 occasions, and both times the bleeding stopped moments later. A nice detail is that Galand doesn't seem to be a big fan of dark matter.

Hope this helps.

The fact that darkness was blatantly stated to be magic proves that manipulating darkness is magic. This further makes my own claim about what Zeldris meant the most likely one. According to @Tatsumi504 earlier, Galaand decided to jump to Camelot rather than fly. All of this reinforces my claim to be the most likely one. And my claim is this. When the seal was broken they had small amounts of magic to fly however Galaand’s magic dropped to zero and thus he could no longer fly or use magic.

Anyway, a good example of demonic physiology is Galand's first encounters with zero magic. Meliodas injured him on 2 occasions, and both times the bleeding stopped moments later. A nice detail is that Galand doesn't seem to be a big fan of dark matter.

Is this really a good example? or the ONLY EXAMPLE. Even if you’re right what stops this only example from being an outlier to other showings? Showings like the commandments not doing shit till they replenish their magic.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Like fr, this sort of claim that darkness isn’t magic require overwhelming evidence

you don’t just say “nah bro this singular shaky ass scan >>> The author stating darkness is magic like any other and Meliodas manipulating darkness with two statements referring to dark matter as magic.

I mean I literally win this argument via preponderance of evidence.

 

[Arkenis]

The author stating darkness is magic

when did he say that?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

when did he say that?

Not stating per say

It was stated under magic types

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Stated here to be magic, I thought this was the author.

I also used this very clear scan.