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High 8-C Survival of the Fittest Tournament: Group A - Ming Xin vs Deku (My Hero)

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Also why is the lie that Deku is 2.7 tons still around, he was 2.7 tons months before this key and trained immensely since then, the AP difference is not that big at all especially with Fa Jin
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
If he’s grappled on his arms he can’t swing his hand. Deku goes for arms. I’m sensing a problem for Ming here.

So he gets grappled then Deku punches several times with Fa Jin amping his attacks until the bell breaks then starts punching him, and he can’t do much about it because he’s grappled by higher LS from multiple sources.
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How can he grapple on his arm or any part of the body if the Bell is active?
 
Izuku is an unknown amount stronger than 2.7 Tons, no matter what words are used that isn't going to change. Unless they can provide some one shot I'm unaware of. There is nothing to suggest he even goes above 3 Tons. This is how this wiki works, simply being a lot stronger means nothing.

However I am curious about the whole not being able to use other percentages in different keys. We say he no longer uses 8%, but we all realize that Izuku would never fight in his base form correct? He would use OFA, it's horrible out of character for him to use his base verse. I'd say that is worse than having him lower to 8% or something.

So I'm curious, how does this rule actually go? Since I don't see how allowing him to use other percentages would be that different to magically restricting him to his base.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Izuku is an unknown amount stronger than 2.7 Tons, no matter what words are used that isn't going to change. Unless they can provide some one shot I'm unaware of. There is nothing to suggest he even goes above 3 Tons. This is how this wiki works, simply being a lot stronger means nothing.

However I am curious about the whole not being able to use other percentages in different keys. We say he no longer uses 8%, but we all realize that Izuku would never fight in his base form correct? He would use OFA, it's horrible out of character for him to use his base verse. I'd say worse that lowering to 8% or something.

So I'm curious, how does this rule actually go? Since I don't see how allowing him to use other percentages would be that different to magically restricting him to his base.
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We SHOULD put all his percentages in every key but it would make his profile cluttered so GG I guess welcome to theoretical Base Deku hell.

And that’s BS he can’t be argued higher than 2.7 tons when he has gotten ridiculously stronger since Joint Training.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
We SHOULD put all his percentages in every key but it would make his profile cluttered so GG I guess welcome to theoretical Base Deku hell.

And that’s BS he can’t be argued higher than 2.7 tons when he has gotten ridiculously stronger since Joint Training.
Click to expand...
And to support this claim I bring up the entire scaling chain in the NNT series page, where the highest calc is currently high 7-A yet the strongest characters are High 6-C
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
We SHOULD put all his percentages in every key but it would make his profile cluttered so GG I guess welcome to theoretical Base Deku hell.

And that’s BS he can’t be argued higher than 2.7 tons when he has gotten ridiculously stronger since Joint Training.
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He can be higher, but we have nothing solid to base it on. Statements of him being a lot stronger is utterly meaningless. A 3.7 Ton character would still be seen as slightly stronger than him, but not as much as a 2.7 character would be. Unless he had some crazy one shot or multiplier.

Base Izuku has like zero showings, since he never fights in his base after learning Full Cowl.

I don't actually believe Izuku's OFA has improved drastically in terms of power. However Izuku himself has changed and does need different keys, and labeling all of his percentages would be very full of clutter as you said.

Maybe we shouldn't even rate Izuku's base form at all
 
TheRustyOne said:
He can be higher, but we have nothing solid to base it on. Statements of him being a lot stronger is utterly meaningless. A 3.7 Ton character would still be seen as slightly stronger than him, but not as much as a 2.7 character would be. Unless he had some crazy one shot or multiplier.

Base Izuku has like zero showings, since he never fights in his base after learning Full Cowl.

I don't actually believe Izuku's OFA has improved drastically in terms of power. However Izuku himself has changed and does need different keys, and labeling all of his percentages would be very full of clutter as you said.

Maybe we shouldn't even rate Izuku's base form at all
Click to expand...
But we have to rate his base form because people scale from it. Suffering is eternal, since we now get spam fights of base Deku against “insert High 8-C character here”

Deku can’t even use AIR FORCE in his base because OFA is restricted to just the other quirks, this era of debates is a terror
 
Zaratthustra said:
It blocks things from reaching him and hurting him. Qin Mu had to destroy it before even using the Soul BFR.
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So Deku breaks the bell then grabs him. A couple Fa Jin kicks should destroy it and he has higher mobility with Float + Blackwhip so he just keeps at range, blinds him with smokescreen, dodges all of Ming’s attacks because they’re easy as heck to avoid with Danger Sense + Analytical Prediction and never gets touched by the soul destruction because he’s constantly darting in and out of range.

Also, again, with speed equal he can run away from the soul attack with Fa Jin + Blackwhip, their combat speed is Supersonic so he can just book it.

By the way, if Ming makes any kind of movement that is different from his normal movements when he does the soul attack, Deku is running away already since he won’t know what he’s doing and will be cautious instantly.
 
He can't dodge with speed equal if its sound-based and the light will purge the soul. It's not soul damage, its soul shattered and purged - its instakill if not resisted.

Same can be said for Ming Xin and run away, dodge and counter if needed anything Deku can do. What's 10 different attacks compared to countering 1000?
 
Zaratthustra said:
He can't dodge with speed equal if its sound-based and the light will purge the soul. It's not soul damage, its soul shattered and purged - its instakill if not resisted.

Same can be said for Ming Xin and run away, dodge and counter if needed anything Deku can do. What's 10 different attacks compared to countering 1000?
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Are you just ignoring Deku can speed amp and that their combat speed is supersonic? He can dodge the attack, it’s not hard to see. Also why is the light also killing now?

Ming isn’t as smart as Deku and gets easily beaten on multiple fronts is why he can’t do what Deku does. 1000 attacks is irrelevant if your opponent can avoid all of them while you can’t avoid his 10.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Are you just ignoring Deku can speed amp and that their combat speed is supersonic? He can dodge the attack, it’s not hard to see. Also why is the light also killing now?

Ming isn’t as smart as Deku and gets easily beaten on multiple fronts is why he can’t do what Deku does. 1000 attacks is irrelevant if your opponent can avoid all of them while you can’t avoid his 10.
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It was from the beginning, look upward (its the 24 post) -https://vsbattles.com/threads/high-8-c-survival-of-the-fittest-tournament-group-a-ming-xin-vs-deku-my-hero.133804/post-4604137

How can't he avoid 10? He counters 1000 and he also has the shield to block if he were to not. Ming may not be as smart as Deku but he has better fighting skills as he could match with Qin Mu.
 
Zaratthustra said:
It was from the beginning, look upward (its the 24 post) -https://vsbattles.com/threads/high-8-c-survival-of-the-fittest-tournament-group-a-ming-xin-vs-deku-my-hero.133804/post-4604137

How can't he avoid 10? He counters 1000 and he also has the shield to block if he were to not. Ming may not be as smart as Deku but he has better fighting skills as he could match with Qin Mu.
Click to expand...
Buddy, speed is equalized to the slower party. This is irrelevant because they’re both supersonic in combat speed. So Deku is relative to his soul attack in speed. And he can speed amp. So he’s faster. He’s out of the range before the attack goes off and doesn’t get hit.

Analytical Prediction that reads his moves and predicts them before he does them. Also smokescreen which you still haven’t provided a solid counter to that doesn’t result in Deku getting free hits on the bell.

Fighting skills don’t matter, Deku doesn’t brawl without using his quirks which Ming has no answer to other than avoid. He gets predicted or hindered long enough that Deku breaks the bell with his speed + strength amp while his soul attack gets avoided because Precog and he’s faster than the attack and Ming can’t see where he is in smokescreen.

If the light is true light then why isn’t the attack light speed.
 
I did for smokescreen - his Spring Thunder Art that compresses the air before his palm rapidly, then explode outward, disrupting things around it that will disperse the smoke and the light from the Yang Refining Art.

Analytical Prediction like I said won't help as he fought with Qin Mu who also has it - which can predict the trajectory and direction of attacks/movements by how the muscles, tendons move under the skin, the difference in power, and to see the flaws of the enemy. He had no problem with fighting with him.

I didn't say its true light, It says that it creates light that will purge the soul. Speed amp won't help much if he comes close as he has the shield and if he stays too much afar his Dragon Spirit will start to heal himself (which in prolonged fights its a good one).

Ming Xin doesn't brawls, he's a patient person who won't rush without thinking. He's a monk, do you expect him to go straight without thinking and planning? No, he's not dumb.

First, you said fighting skills are important when you said that Deku defeated older people with decades on him and now it doesn't? They do and Ming Xin has them in spade.
 
Zaratthustra said:
I did for smokescreen - his Spring Thunder Art that compresses the air before his palm rapidly, then explode outward, disrupting things around it that will disperse the smoke and the light from the Yang Refining Art.

Analytical Prediction like I said won't help as he fought with Qin Mu who also has it - which can predict the trajectory and direction of attacks/movements by how the muscles, tendons move under the skin, the difference in power, and to see the flaws of the enemy. He had no problem with fighting with him.

I didn't say its true light, It says that it creates light that will purge the soul. Speed amp won't help much if he comes close as he has the shield and if he stays too much afar his Dragon Spirit will start to heal himself (which in prolonged fights its a good one).

Ming Xin doesn't brawls, he's a patient person who won't rush without thinking. He's a monk, do you expect him to go straight without thinking and planning? No, he's not dumb.

First, you said fighting skills are important when you said that Deku defeated older people with decades on him and now it doesn't? They do and Ming Xin has them in spade.
Click to expand...
Smokescreen is bigger than the range of his attacks, so he’s only dispersing parts of it. Which Deku can fill back up easily. So he still can’t fight as effectively within it unless he’s spamming that one attack constantly at which point he gets easily predicted.

Deku’s analytical prediction does literally the same thing except he fights differently than Qin. He just adapts his prediction to what he’s seeing and his prediction gets better as he fights. Even if Ming keeps up in the beginning he gets overtaken eventually. That’s also ignoring Danger Sense precognition on all of Ming’s attacks so he never lands a hit even if he manages to somehow spot Deku in smokescreen.

Healing is irrelevant if he’s protected by the bell. When the bell is broken Deku is grappling his arms, legs and hands with Blackwhip then trying to beat him unconscious within 30 seconds. And if it’s not true light then Deku dodges with speed amp and knowing the attack is coming due to sensing a spike in Ming’s hostility and a big “get away” warning from the amount of threat present.

The soul attack needs an incredibly specific circumstance of:
  • Deku is very close to Ming and does not react to his stance changing to perform the attack
  • Deku stays within Ming’s range even though he will have understood all of his abilities by this point and knows his range
  • Deku does not react to Danger Sense giving him a spike to get away
  • Deku does not activate Fa Jin or Blackwhip to speed amp away
Only under these circumstances is that soul attack ever working on Deku.

“Brawler” is a fighting style, it’s what Deku is. He doesn’t have a set style he just reacts to his situation. And when did I say fighting skill is important? If I did that is wrong because Deku doesn’t fight in direct combat in this key, he uses his Quirks to make it easier for him to land hits. He is never going to run up to Ming and try to hit him, he is going to go about it by using his abilities. So Ming’s fighting skill is irrelevant since he isn’t fighting another martial artist, unless he has crazy showings like a Baki character.

Ming can know all the techniques and fighting styles he wants, they don’t matter if he isn’t fighting someone that is in range for them. Deku will notice Ming is a close range fighter and will stay away with Smokescreen for hit and run. Only long range attacks he has to deal with Smokescreen are the soul attack and his air cannon, both of which Deku can avoid thanks to danger sense. So he spams Smokescreen while poking at him with Blackwhip and Fa Jin to break the bell from a safe range so he can avoid his ranged attacks, then goes to town when it’s down.

Also, a forgotten fact, the Iron Soles has a double impact for his kicks, so he’s actually hitting the bell twice everytime he kicks it, on top of Fa Jin. So that bell is definitely going down quickly.
 
He uses the double impact of the Iron Soles to launch himself backwards from attacks by the way, as shown with Nine. So everytime he goes for a kick he’s getting back as well, which is made even easier by using Float. So he’s really never going to be in range for that soul attack unless he gets horrendously bad timing and doesn’t react to Danger Sense or his own brain at all.
 
Can Ming physically attack and have the bell active at the same time? Because Deku can and will bait an attack just to grab Ming if his only defense against Blackwhip is down.
 
Can any of the supporters tell me how Ming hits Deku at all with his attacks? I feel like I’m missing something, and suddenly Ming just got FRA trained for… I don’t even know what reasons above.
 
Updated votes
Ming Xin: 9 (Nierre, Zarathustra, Rikimarox, Naitodesu, DD, Fine point, Vext, Elixirr, FantaRin)
(Deku) (FinalAct): 8 (Superstar, Acer, Popted, Speedster, Glaceon, Psycho, Rusty, Baken)
 
A vote difference of 3 is needed for a win.
So, for Ming to win we need either 2 new people to vote, or for 1 person to switch from Deku.
 
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