When Creators Cry: Answer Arcs (Yes, it's a downgrade)

[Lormac_CC]

Also infinity having an end isn't enough to disprove it

Depends on context. If the end can be reached by climbing the hierarchy, then that Hierarchy is 1-B. If the end is something beyond the Hierarchy, then that would be 1-A not high 1-B because the hierarchy will never reach the end no matter how many layers are added

 

[Teezar]

1-A

Or low 1A?

Also ìn episode 4 Virgilia(former beatrice) said she's a great witch.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Or low 1A?

Low 1-A would be a massive downplay. The end will be a place beyond the reach of layers, no matter how many layers are added, it will never reach it

 

[Teezar]

Low 1-A would be a massive downplay. The end will be a place beyond the reach of layers, no matter how many layers are added, it will never reach it

Yeah that's the criteria for 1A but after high 1B should be low 1A

 

[Odinson]

Yeah that's the criteria for 1A but after high 1B should be low 1A

Its not necessary to qualify for low 1-A just because your verse has something higher than high 1-B. So low 1-A won't happen here.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Yeah that's the criteria for 1A but after high 1B should be low 1A

Not every time. It is why characters can become 1-A without having a High 1-B cosmology

 

[Megaraptor149]

Not every time. It is why characters can become 1-A without having a High 1-B cosmology

Yeah, iya just like Megami Tensei and Nasuverse, it don't have High 1-B structures in their cosmology but can get tier 1-A

 

[QuasiYuri]

Low 1-A just exist because of Beyonder anyway.

 

[Laminitus]

The ladder is 1-B, Transcends the ladder should be 1-A atleast by term of definiton.
It was stated to be a place beyond conception and all notion of restrictions.

 

[Teezar]

Low 1-A just exist because of Beyonder anyway.

Except marvel doesn't have uncountable infinite dimensions or any verse.

 

[Darksmash]

As I already said, the Umineko ladder operates like a finite ladder but this website is very lax with the usage of infinity, hence it should qualify for High 1-B unless we want to downgrade 10s of verses for the sake of fairness.

Spoiler: Derail

However, Creators being anything above High 1-B/low 1-A is exaggeration imo. There are lots of issues with the conflicts between the usage of low 1-A and it's definition as well, but for the sake of fairness I guess it can be equated to any kind of vague transcendence over an infinite hierarchy (even though it's tier definition retardedly conflicts with that notion). But 1-A is absolutely out of the question. Being restrictionless doesn't prove the Creator's domain is Inaccessibly above the hierarchy, and saying it is would need you to pretend all the instances of the story that talk about how witches have/can reach the realm of the creator don't exist. It's restrictionless because the hierarchy itself works on removal of restrictions. Arguing something is 1-A because of being "restrictionless" in a hierarchy that involves removing restrictions in the first place is like arguing the top layer of a R>F hierarchy would automatically qualify for 1-A because it's real while everything else is fiction. But that's all stuff for another(possibly) thread.

 

[Megaraptor149]

The ladder is 1-B, Transcends the ladder should be 1-A atleast by term of definiton.
It was stated to be a place beyond conception and all notion of restrictions.

No i think, transcends the ladder it's would be still 1-B. Beyond conception and all notion of restriction it means nothing at all for 1-A.

Unless the ladder itself is High 1-B.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Infinity has an end. That's just how it works with sets n fiction.

 

[Darksmash]

Infinity doesn't actually have an end. Infinite sets and higher stuff just work very unconventionally

 

[Laminitus]

As I already said, the Umineko ladder operates like a finite ladder but this website is very lax with the usage of infinity, hence it should qualify for High 1-B unless we want to downgrade 10s of verses for the sake of fairness.

10 mistakes doesn't make it become a truth, isn't we discussed to find the truth and terminate the mistake?

 

[Lormac_CC]

The ladder is 1-B, Transcends the ladder should be 1-A atleast by term of definiton

If you mean creators
then no, the ladder can be used to reach them by conventional Moving on it

 

[Lormac_CC]

we discussed to find the truth and terminate the mistake?

That should be in a different thread

 

[Odinson]

Except marvel doesn't have uncountable infinite dimensions or any verse.

They have infinite dimensions

 

[Lormac_CC]

The Creators are 1-B, they are at the end of a finite Hierarchy

 

[Darksmash]

10 mistakes doesn't make it become a truth, isn't we discussed to find the truth and terminate the mistake?

Try creating a seperate content revision thread on this topic then, because it would affect a lot of verses

 

[QuasiYuri]

Infinity doesn't actually have an end. Infinite sets and higher stuff just work very unconventionally

That's what fiction follows, that's why we deal with infinity that way.

 

[Laminitus]

Try creating a seperate content revision thread on this topic then, because it would affect a lot of verses

Im too lazy to do that, to be honest.
This is not even my account.
I just borrowed my friend's account.
can you created the thread ? I'll join to discussion.

 

[Lormac_CC]

That's what fiction follows, that's why we deal with infinity that way

Not all fiction is like that, most creators don't understand how infinity works. Take Umineko for example, there is a statement that a voyager journey has no end, but there is also a scan that a voyagers have a final step then they enter the kingdom of God. While the creator of the story might have had the idea of making the ladder Infinite, the very structure of the story contradicts that.

 

[Megaraptor149]

Im too lazy to do that, to be honest.
This is not even my account.
I just borrowed my friend's account.
can you created the thread ? I'll join to discussion.

You can create itself in new post, choose disscussion thread

 

[QuasiYuri]

Not all fiction is like that, most creators don't understand how infinity works. Take Umineko for example, there is a statement that a voyager journey has no end, but there is also a scan that a voyagers have a final step then they enter the kingdom of God. While the creator the story might have had the idea of making the ladder Infinite, the very structure of the story contradicts that.

Or it's just that they don't treat Infinity the way maths do because Infinity isn't a number in real life.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Or it's just that they don't treat Infinity the way maths do because Infinity isn't a number in real life.

Then they won't really qualify for the wiki standards since the wiki works on real life maths, There are verses that treats infinity normally. Magi for example

 

[Darksmash]

That's what fiction follows, that's why we deal with infinity that way.

Or maybe they are just using infinity hyperbolically (which makes 100% more sense with both maths and the cosmologies)

there is a statement that a voyager journey has no end, but there is also a scan that a voyagers have a final step then they enter the kingdom of God. While the creator of the story might have had the idea of making the ladder Infinite, the very structure of the story contradicts that.

Voyagers' journey not having an endpoint was likely just an exaggeration of them being afraid of the creator and stalling their journey.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Then they won't really qualify for the wiki standards since the wiki works on real life maths, There are verses that treats infinity normally. Magi for example

The wiki uses sets of infinity, not the common math one.
Otherwise the system would stop at 3-A.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Or maybe they are just using infinity hyperbolically (which makes 100% more sense with both maths and the cosmologies)

Yeah like the way the use transcend

 

[God900]

Yeah, this is much like Infinite speed having levels, like, some Infinite speed characters's being greater than others.

As Yuri said, that's how fiction treats it, all has a limit. If not, Zeref from FT would have infinite strenght AKA High 3-A, just for having an infinite supply of Magic.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Don't even know what you want here. Somehow using infinity as set for tier 3 and 2 works, but High 1-B doesn't ?

 

[Darksmash]

Im too lazy to do that, to be honest.
This is not even my account.
I just borrowed my friend's account.
can you created the thread ? I'll join to discussion.

I have the same issue. It's too much unnecessary work

 

[God900]

I have the same issue. It's too much unnecessary work

And it would cause a mess in the scaling System of this wiki, heck I don't think the thread would even be accepted to begin with.

 

[Hasty12345]

the tiering system should go up to 3-A then go up via alephs instead of spatial dimesnions

 

[Antvasima]

QuasiYuri:

What should we currently do here?

Also, did you edit the page that I unlocked for you earlier?

 

[QuasiYuri]

QuasiYuri:

What should we currently do here?

Also, did you edit the page that I unlocked for you earlier?

Nah since Ultima commented against.

 

[QuasiYuri]

the tiering system should go up to 3-A then go up via alephs instead of spatial dimesnions

I think you meant R/F diff

 

[Hasty12345]

I think you meant R/F diff

idk what I meant

 

[Antvasima]

Nah since Ultima commented against.

Okay. Should I close it again then?

 

[Hecatia_Gaming]

Sorry for this little derail... but since apparently the major changes for the AP were already settled, now I can use Umineko chars in threads? Or it should be preferable to wait a little bit longer?