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I am uncertain. The focus of this discussion seems too split up for that purpose to me.
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Hax Resistance Scaling Issues; X's Superior to Y & Gets Z Hax Resistance
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
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Does somebody else here have suggestions in that regard? Help would be appreciated.
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Necro bump, but it seems like no one's applied the accepted changes to the affected profiles yet.
But I think the core changes to the Resistance page have been carried out. Does that conclude this thread then?
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Stefano4444
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I already said what i think about scaling of hax resistance when it come with characters who possess the same UES, so i will simply leave a link here.
Also, i don't agree with consider hax resistance done via raw power as a weakness, but rather it should be treated just as a limitation of such ability.
Also, i don't agree with consider hax resistance done via raw power as a weakness, but rather it should be treated just as a limitation of such ability.
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uhhhh, that limitation IS a weakness of said ability tho. At least, within that specific verse. Not that it would apply to every other verse as a standard. Another case-by-case basis approach, methinks.
Stefano4444
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I mean hax potency its a thing, two different characters having the same ability should never be treated as having equally strong hax, as hax can exist on different levels.
Example, Molecule Man's Trasmutation >>>> Edward Elric's Trasmutation, no matter if both can bypass durability.
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Oooooooooooh. I see. Okay then.
NGL tho, that's a weird comparison to make, Molecule Man is from Marvel, Edward Elric is from FMAB. And Molecule Man's hax >>>>>> because he's got higher-dimensional AP.
Stefano4444
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I mean that only to show that different characters having the same ability are not necessarily equally haxed.
But if you find such example too weird, just switch Molecule Man with Father at his peak of power and my point still stand.
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Stefano4444
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What about the Gods from Saint Seiya? The latter's hax resistances isn't based on them scaling above Bronze, Silver and Gold Saints.
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OK so basically from what I can see in the changes applied by Damage in the Resistance page last April based on the fact that this thread was accepted...
One shouldn't just automatically scale resistances from one character to other characters by default simply based on assumptions of how strong they are and how their power level or other levels of strength relate to said resistance, as the reason behind how a character is able to resist an ability is important for proving whether other characters possess that same resistance. The evidence for this could range from anything from shared unique physiology to using the same energy source for their abilities and physical strength, etcetera, but one has to prove this first.
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I believe Stefano wanted to add some new additional points regarding universal energy systems, with regards to the potency of hax-based abilities and hax resistance
1. Hax potency under a universal energy system would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis, one would have to prove that one's hax potency is connected to/dependant on the user's own physical power level, and that the stronger the user, the stronger their hax.
2. Hax resistance would be dealt in a similar way, if a character can withstand hax with a specific amount of energy from said energy source via raw strength (Assuming it is confirmed to be that way), then those with higher energy levels of the same exact energy type would also be able to resist (Like the One Piece Gomu-Gomu example in the Resistance page explains, where wielders of the same fruit would share the same exact resistances. Or prolly Hakai from Dragon Ball, which is resisted by people with a high-enough power level who by tandem also have a high-enough ki level, and people stronger than them would prolly resist since they have higher power levels which also equates to higher ki levels). This is of course, assuming that they use the same exact energy type/source, this wouldn't apply to characters using different energy sources (For example, Odin-Force's resistances would not be cross-scalable to something like Dr. Strange's magic unless there are statements/showings for it).
1. Hax potency under a universal energy system would have to be determined on a case-by-case basis, one would have to prove that one's hax potency is connected to/dependant on the user's own physical power level, and that the stronger the user, the stronger their hax.
2. Hax resistance would be dealt in a similar way, if a character can withstand hax with a specific amount of energy from said energy source via raw strength (Assuming it is confirmed to be that way), then those with higher energy levels of the same exact energy type would also be able to resist (Like the One Piece Gomu-Gomu example in the Resistance page explains, where wielders of the same fruit would share the same exact resistances. Or prolly Hakai from Dragon Ball, which is resisted by people with a high-enough power level who by tandem also have a high-enough ki level, and people stronger than them would prolly resist since they have higher power levels which also equates to higher ki levels). This is of course, assuming that they use the same exact energy type/source, this wouldn't apply to characters using different energy sources (For example, Odin-Force's resistances would not be cross-scalable to something like Dr. Strange's magic unless there are statements/showings for it).
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Stefano4444
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I think a better example involving hax resistance would be Hakai from Dragon Ball or Shambles from One Piece.
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Me too but I thought using the example on the Resistance page would be more uncontroversial so I went with the safe side.
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If it is made clear that their resistance is solely down to the quantity of energy they're wielding (whatever form/name that energy has), then it makes sense.
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So uh, would something like resistance to Hakai in Dragon Ball work in that regard? Where higher power level (Which also equates to higher strength level) also results in greater resistance, since the power level is based on ki?
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Thank you for the evaluation Damage.
What do you think about this?
@DontTalkDT @Antoniofer @Dino_Ranger_Black @KingTempest @Theglassman12 @Planck69 @AKM sama @Moritzva @Mr._Bambu @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @Ogbunabali @Wokistan
What do you think about this?
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Can't speak for specific cases. Would need to see the evidence for it on a case-by-case basis.
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Guess that'll need a CRT then.
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Based on the OP, I agree
Unless directly stated, Resistances shouldn't be scaled via power
Unless directly stated, Resistances shouldn't be scaled via power
Mr. Bambu
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If I'm understanding the points presented, then I agree with these revisions. Different types of hax shouldn't automatically scale, but resistances to specific types (where the resistance results from the UES) seems fine.
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So I'm guessing you agree with Stefano's points?
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It looks alright to me.
Mr. Bambu
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Aye, yeah
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Awesome.
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Okay, so whaddya think about the criteria below that Stefano recommended?
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I made a few adjustments based on what Stefano told me, I added another example.
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Here are the current suggestions.
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The current suggestions seem alright to me.
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Didn't we already finish this thread? I believe a minor note had to be added to the resistances page.
The resistance page has this noted:
"Ideally supporting evidence should be used to prove that a resistance feat demonstrated by one character can be reasonably applied to other characters, instead of assuming that the resistance or the same level of resistance should be applied automatically."
We can add the following to that:
"Simply being stronger than a character with resistance does not mean the stronger character also has equal or higher resistance, unless the verse makes it explicitly clear that said resistance is based on the level of power."
This is common knowledge but I think it was agreed to put it in writing.
The resistance page has this noted:
"Ideally supporting evidence should be used to prove that a resistance feat demonstrated by one character can be reasonably applied to other characters, instead of assuming that the resistance or the same level of resistance should be applied automatically."
We can add the following to that:
"Simply being stronger than a character with resistance does not mean the stronger character also has equal or higher resistance, unless the verse makes it explicitly clear that said resistance is based on the level of power."
This is common knowledge but I think it was agreed to put it in writing.
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Here are the current issues that we need to make a decision about.
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