Some Ups and Downs for Touhou Project

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Compared to the high tiers of the verse? It's very likely, given that she's generally depicted as being incredibly lazy and unwilling to put in much effort. But compared to the low tiers, she should absolutely still scale to or above.

By the way, if you don't think Mokou scales, I'd also like to point out that Eirin is stated to outclass Kaguya to an absurd degree, so at bare minimum the god tiers should scale above her.

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

This is funny.

No, like, really.

Sometimes people must know the existential basis of Gensokyo. It is a finite, secluded space contained within the Outside World.

It was seperated from the Outside World with the help of "Great Hakurei Barrier", which was the result of Yukari's manipulation over the "Boundary of Fantasy and Reality". During that, the Outside World was established as the "Real World" where Gensokyo was the "Fantasy" counterpart, therefore rendering common sense to not make sense in there. It was legitimately funny to see that one indivual arguing about "the scene should've changed all the time for their infinite-speed fight", like dude, imagine playing a game that you need to focus on bullets, then the background starts flashing randomly. By your logic, it makes no sense either, lmao.

"Common sense" of the Gensokyo didn't make a sense to Renko either, reminding to y'all who try to make everything completely logical to the real life. Although Kaguya and Eirin, as well as Reisen and Tewi, were from the Outside World (The Lunarians live in The Moon, which is apart of the Outside World but it's protected with the lunarian barrier).

 

[Pixy]

And what about any of this proves low multiversal Touhou?

Prove about they're will remain in 2-C = 3d + 4d ( Time )
also sorry about teir misunderstand

Doremy messing in reality world, Gensokyo and Her dream world and those world have it's own different time line (I told you about those world are seperate from each other so... )

Yukari : Seperate Gensokyo from reality world and that why she got 2-C cuz she mess with time ( don't talk about she can travel to reality world.. that would has different " timeline world "


Gods in touhou

Kanako mess space time for creating myonren temple in one night
Okina is one of Gensokyo's Sage so it's enough
Hecatia and Junko well cuz she mess with Dream World and Moonies's homeland so this include
Eirin well You already see this in upper comment

 

[Mobi2]

This is funny.

No, like, really.

Sometimes people must know the existential basis of Gensokyo. It is a finite, secluded space contained within the Outside World.

It was seperated from the Outside World with the help of "Great Hakurei Barrier", which was the result of Yukari's manipulation over the "Boundary of Fantasy and Reality". During that, the Outside World was established as the "Real World" where Gensokyo was the "Fantasy" counterpart, therefore rendering common sense to not make sense in there. It was legitimately funny to see that one indivual arguing about "the scene should've changed all the time for their infinite-speed fight", like dude, imagine playing a game that you need to focus on bullets, then the background starts flashing randomly. By your logic, it makes no sense either, lmao.

"Common sense" of the Gensokyo didn't make a sense to Renko either, reminding to y'all who try to make everything completely logical to the real life. Although Kaguya and Eirin, as well as Reisen and Tewi, were from the Outside World (The Lunarians live in The Moon, which is apart of the Outside World but it's protected with the lunarian barrier).

One thing I want correct here is that the moon the lunarians are from isn't from the outside world, but instead it's on the fantasy side of the world. We also see it with yukari's crow where it encountered the outside version of the moon and died due to there being no oxygen

 

[Pixy]

You have to understand that.....

One Universe in Reality = One World in Touhou

Mean 1 world in touhou will have it's own 3d and 4d

Gensokyo is another world

Dream World is another world that seperate from Gensokyo and have " dream " as it's own reality

Moon AKA Lunarian homeland : is Gensokyo but moonversion

Hecatia's hell : The hell that contain unlimit hell from multi timeline world

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

One thing I want correct here is that the moon the lunarians are from isn't from the outside world, but instead it's on the fantasy side of the world. We also see it with yukari's crow where it encountered the outside version of the moon and died due to there being no oxygen

I thought it was more relevant with Toyohime's "Manipulating the boundary between the scientific and fantastic versions of the Moon", in other words, the Barrier that surrounds the Moon Lunarian's City reside within.

 

[Pixy]

Welcome to Touhou... The tale from eastern Illusion Land Where Reality Common Sense is not common in this Illusion

 

[Malomtek]

Creating an object that contains an infinite amount of energy would require you to somehow place that energy into the object, correct? Sagume creating that occult ball is absolutely an 'infinite energy' feat.

Yet Sagume is never described as possessing any specifically "occult power" of her own.

It seems like she just created an object that can draw from an external source of power, like Kami with the Dragon Balls.

 

[Pixy]

I thought it was more relevant with Toyohime's "Manipulating the boundary between the scientific and fantastic versions of the Moon", in other words, the Barrier that surrounds the Moon Lunarian's City reside within.

Don't got wrong Lunarians moon isn't same as Gensokyo

But both have something same....

It's seperate from reality

 

[Mobi2]

I thought it was more relevant with Toyohime's "Manipulating the boundary between the scientific and fantastic versions of the Moon", in other words, the Barrier that surrounds the Moon Lunarian's City reside within.

It was but it shows that they only lived on the fantasy side of the moon while the scientific side is the outside world. Think of it as two sides of the same coin the fantasy side is tails and the outside world is like heads.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yet Sagume is never described as possessing any specifically "occult power" of her own.

It seems like she just created an object that can draw from an external source of power, like Kami with the Dragon Balls.

Except there is no obvious source of external power the balls could be drawing from. If you want to make a claim like that, at least have proof to back it up.

 

[Pixy]

It was but it shows that they only lived on the fantasy side of the moon while the scientific side is the outside world. Think of it as two sides of the same coin the fantasy side is tails and the outside world is like heads.

Yeah Yeah !!!! Finally see someone understand how Touhou Work !!!


I already said about the opposite of the same coin in early pages So I'm very proud when someone get it

 

[Mobi2]

Yeah Yeah !!!! Finally see someone understand how Touhou Work !!!


I already said about the opposite of the same coin in early pages So I'm very proud when someone get it

Well I played and read the series since I was 6 so hopefully my knowledge is up to snuff lol.

 

[Malomtek]

This is funny.

No, like, really.

Sometimes people must know the existential basis of Gensokyo. It is a finite, secluded space contained within the Outside World.

It was seperated from the Outside World with the help of "Great Hakurei Barrier", which was the result of Yukari's manipulation over the "Boundary of Fantasy and Reality". During that, the Outside World was established as the "Real World" where Gensokyo was the "Fantasy" counterpart, therefore rendering common sense to not make sense in there. It was legitimately funny to see that one indivual arguing about "the scene should've changed all the time for their infinite-speed fight", like dude, imagine playing a game that you need to focus on bullets, then the background starts flashing randomly. By your logic, it makes no sense either, lmao.

"Common sense" of the Gensokyo didn't make a sense to Renko either, reminding to y'all who try to make everything completely logical to the real life. Although Kaguya and Eirin, as well as Reisen and Tewi, were from the Outside World (The Lunarians live in The Moon, which is apart of the Outside World but it's protected with the lunarian barrier).

Tag me next time before you speak about me.

And lots of things in lots of fictions don't "make sense" in "realistic" terms, but it doesn't mean we can artificially inflate their statistics to whatever we like.

Prove about they're will remain in 2-C = 3d + 4d ( Time )
also sorry about teir misunderstand

Doremy messing in reality world, Gensokyo and Her dream world and those world have it's own different time line (I told you about those world are seperate from each other so... )

Yukari : Seperate Gensokyo from reality world and that why she got 2-C cuz she mess with time ( don't talk about she can travel to reality world.. that would has different " timeline world "


Gods in touhou

Kanako mess space time for creating myonren temple in one night
Okina is one of Gensokyo's Sage so it's enough
Hecatia and Junko well cuz she mess with Dream World and Moonies's homeland so this include
Eirin well You already see this in upper comment

I don't understand what you're saying, especially because of your bad English.

 

[Promestein]

Can we stay on topic and not go on these illegible unrelated tangents, please?

 

[NothingToDebateWith]

It was but it shows that they only lived on the fantasy side of the moon while the scientific side is the outside world. Think of it as two sides of the same coin the fantasy side is tails and the outside world is like heads.

I believe that also had relation with "The Heaven" being the mirror that's inbetween the True Moon and Outside World/Gensokyo, about whichever moon they see isn't the real one but a reflection of The Heaven, to prevent people from going insane, as per mentioned by Suika within "Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red".

 

[Mobi2]

I believe that also had relation with "The Heaven" being the mirror that's inbetween the True Moon and Outside World/Gensokyo, about whichever moon they see isn't the real one, to prevent people from going insane, as per mentioned by Suika within "Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red".

Oh we went through that a bit ago. Heaven there is a mistranslation it's supposed to be canopy. It's tengai and not tenkai which is heaven

 

[Malomtek]

Except there is no obvious source of external power the balls could be drawing from. If you want to make a claim like that, at least have proof to back it up.

There is no obvious source of external power the Dragon Balls are drawing from either, but we don't scale the power and abilities of Shenron 1:1 with Kami either, do we?

Just because the external source isn't obvious doesn't mean it isn't there, and I must repeat again that Sagume has never been described as possessing or emanating any "occult power" of her own. I think @Promestein can back me up on that.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Except 'occult power' isn't even a quantifiable energy source to begin with. We have Miko's statement referring to it as such, and that's it. Given that the only reference to this 'occult power' is a one off statement that is never elaborated on and is inconsistent with other descriptions, I don't think it should be given that much weight.

 

[Pixy]

Can we stay on topic and not go on these illegible unrelated tangents, please?

Then pls deal with him I'm waste 6 hours+ for this planet guy

Using the most standard and easy to understand word for this guy and hoping he will ne new person....

Sorry for being rude but...

I'm f_*king done with this planet guy now I'll will ignore every single comment he make now

Imagine spending 6+ hours for debating someone... and he just ignore every single thing you gave to him
and the most absolutely bu__sh_t thing... You use the most common and easy to understand word for hope he will understand what you gave to him..
And he just.. said... I don't understand Your english is bad...

Yeah sitting with my computer hoping and finding the good debate for myself
Try to be polite every single person.. don't judge people when see in the first time.. even in debate platform..
Well you know.. everyone has limit

I'm done I'm f__*ing done with this guy pls take care of him sir....

 

[Derpmaster9000]

Then pls deal with him I'm waste 6 hours+ for this planet guy

Using the most standard and easy to understand word for this guy and hoping he will ne new person....

Sorry for being rude but...

I'm f_*king done with this planet guy now I'll will ignore every single comment he make now

Imagine spending 6+ hours for debating someone... and he just ignore every single thing you gave to him
and the most absolutely bu__sh_t thing... You use the most common and easy to understand word for hope he will understand what you gave to him..
And he just.. said... I don't understand Your english is bad...

Yeah sitting with my computer hoping and finding the good debate for myself
Try to be polite every single person.. don't judge people when see in the first time.. even in debate platform..
Well you know.. everyone has limit

I'm done I'm f__*ing done with this guy pls take care of him sir....

Dude, not to be a dick, but seriously, fix your grammar. I could barely understand what you were saying. Malomtek is being an ass, but he's not wrong about your bad english. Take a little bit of extra time to fix it up if you have to before you reply to anything. It doesn't look like this thread is gonna be closed for a while, so you have plenty of time, man.

 

[Malomtek]

Except 'occult power' isn't even a quantifiable energy source to begin with. We have Miko's statement referring to it as such, and that's it. Given that the only reference to this 'occult power' is a one off statement that is never elaborated on and is inconsistent with other descriptions, I don't think it should be given that much weight.

Aren't the "occult balls" themselves supposed to give off "occult power", which is why they can weaken the Great Hakurei Barrier so effectively, despite everything else?

And if we can say the "occult power" part of Miko's statement shouldn't be given that much weight, then why are we taking the "infinite, surely" part at absolute face value? It just seems like a rumination on Miko's part without much external evidence to back it up.

 

[Pixy]

Dude, not to be a dick, but seriously, fix your grammar. I could barely understand what you were saying. Malomtek is being an ass, but he's not wrong about your bad english. Take a little bit of extra time to fix it up if you have to before you reply to anything. It doesn't look like this thread is gonna be closed for a while, so you have plenty of time, man.

Yeah thx for telling me I'll take a rest now Probably just hop in Red Orchestra 2 being british guy carry a sten mk3 and kill some bots

Good Night to You all and have a nice dream

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Because 'occult power' is extremely vague and has no clear indication as to what it could mean. We know it's some kind of power or energy, but where that power comes from, how it manifests, or what it looks like is entirely unknown. However, 'infinite' has a very clear definition here. It's easy to argue for different interpretations of 'occult power', but harder to argue the same for 'infinite'.

 

[Malomtek]

Because 'occult power' is extremely vague and has no clear indication as to what it could mean. We know it's some kind of power or energy, but where that power comes from, how it manifests, or what it looks like is entirely unknown.

Well, from the VS Battles Wiki summary about the "Occult Balls":

"Much like the Mystery Spots they emerged from, these Occult Balls' main purpose is to increase the spiritual strength of something. Unlike these spots, however, these objects mainly increases the strength of beliefs around them, causing those to be manifested in the real world."

So we know that "occult power" has something to do with increasing something's spiritual power, something that Sagume Kishin has no ability to do on her own.

However, 'infinite' has a very clear definition here. It's easy to argue for different interpretations of 'occult power', but harder to argue the same for 'infinite'.

"Infinite" by itself, maybe. "Infinite" in the context of the occult ball's power, no really.

"This strange power flowing from these magic orbs must surely be infinite (in some way)" doesn't sound like an exactingly certain statement from prior knowledge that should be taken at face value.

 

[Malomtek]

Because the abilities of the occult balls are clearly not the same as their creator, Sagume Kishin, there is no 1:1 correlation or scaling between their power, and even if the Occult Balls could somehow exert infinite energy at once, there's no particular reason for Sagume Kishin to scale to them at all.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Actually having some control over 'spiritual power' is something pretty much everyone in Touhou can do but that'll be for another CRT

Rephrasing what Miko said isn't gonna help you here. Just because she put 'surely' at the end of her sentence doesn't make the statement itself wrong. Also, infinite is infinite. Why are the occult balls an exception?

 

[Malomtek]

Rephrasing what Miko said isn't gonna help you here. Just because she put 'surely' at the end of her sentence doesn't make the statement itself wrong.

I didn't say the statement was wrong, rather that it shouldn't be interpreted the way you currently are interpreting it right now.

Also, infinite is infinite. Why are the occult balls an exception?

Because "it generates power infinitely" is a far cry from "it generates infinite power at once". Notice the comparison to white holes, which don't exert infinite power all at once.

And again, because the abilities of the occult balls are clearly not the same as their creator, Sagume Kishin, there is no 1:1 correlation or scaling between their power, and even if the Occult Balls could somehow exert infinite energy at once, there's no particular reason for Sagume Kishin to scale to them at all.

As an aside, can you link that statement again for me? I need to look at the Japanese text for this "infinite occult balls" thing.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Here you go.

 

[Malomtek]

Here you go.

I thought you would link the Touhou wiki article where this translation came from, but I found it anyway.

Scrutinizing the kanji of "無限" for a bit, we find that while it does mean "infinite" or "unlimited", it can also mean "endless", as in "exuding power endlessly", which is a bit different from "infinite power". Given the complete lack of independent "infinite" feats for the Occult Balls that would back an "infinite" interpretation up (like creating an entire infinite universe), ones that don't depend on circular scaling loops anyway, we can safely assume that a slightly better translation of that statement, in context, would be:

"Occult power is flowing out of it
just like a white hole

Endlessly, to be sure."

Which is just as well, because a ball that was constantly emanating infinite power all at once would be more like a bomb that constantly shreds up the universe.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

By the way, someone showed me a scan of Sagume's profile, and it turns out she did create the occult ball using her own power. So she created an object containing infinite energy using her own power. Can we put this argument to rest now?

 

[Malomtek]

By the way, someone showed me a scan of Sagume's profile, and it turns out she did create the occult ball using her own power. So she created an object containing infinite energy using her own power. Can we put this argument to rest now?

Let me repeat myself yet again:

Because the abilities of the occult balls are clearly not the same as their creator, Sagume Kishin, there is no 1:1 correlation or scaling between their power, and even if the Occult Balls could somehow exert infinite energy at once, there's no particular reason for Sagume Kishin to scale to them at all.

Scrutinizing the kanji of "無限" ("mugen") for a bit in Miko's short dialogue about the Lunarian Occult Ball, we find that while it does mean "infinite" or "unlimited", it can also mean "endless", as in "exuding power endlessly", which is a bit different from "infinite power". Given the complete lack of independent "infinite" feats for the Occult Balls that would back an "infinite" interpretation up (like creating an entire infinite universe), ones that don't depend on circular scaling loops anyway, we can safely assume that a slightly better translation of that statement, in context, would be:

"Occult power is flowing out of it
just like a white hole

Endlessly, to be sure."

Which is just as well, because a ball that was constantly emanating infinite power all at once would be more like a bomb that constantly shreds up the universe.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Let me repeat myself yet again:

Because the abilities of the occult balls are clearly not the same as their creator, Sagume Kishin, there is no 1:1 correlation or scaling between their power, and even if the Occult Balls could somehow exert infinite energy at once, there's no particular reason for Sagume Kishin to scale to them at all.

Scrutinizing the kanji of "無限" ("mugen") for a bit in Miko's short dialogue about the Lunarian Occult Ball, we find that while it does mean "infinite" or "unlimited", it can also mean "endless", as in "exuding power endlessly", which is a bit different from "infinite power". Given the complete lack of independent "infinite" feats for the Occult Balls that would back an "infinite" interpretation up (like creating an entire infinite universe), ones that don't depend on circular scaling loops anyway, we can safely assume that a slightly better translation of that statement, in context, would be:

"Occult power is flowing out of it
just like a white hole

Endlessly, to be sure."

Which is just as well, because a ball that was constantly emanating infinite power all at once would be more like a bomb that constantly shreds up the universe.

You did not read the scan Fujiwara just sent if you still think there’s no correlation.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Okay. Addressing the translation part first, a sentence having an alternate way of reading it does not mean that reading is inherently correct. It does not matter which interpretation of 'mugen' we use, because regardless of which one, the occult balls hold infinite energy. If they spew out infinite energy all at once, it must hold infinite energy. If it spews out energy at a constant rate, it must also hold infinite energy in order to do so. The way the energy is released is no longer the point here.

And I'm barely gonna even address the first part, because I don't know what you're even looking for here. Sagume created an object that holds infinite energy using her own power. There is a clear correlation there. If you still don't believe it, then, well, I can't really change your mind. You've rejected WoG statements in the past, so it really seems like you'll always just be a brick wall with 0 willingness to admit when your argument no longer holds water.

 

[Malomtek]

You did not read the scan Fujiwara just sent if you still think there’s no correlation.

I did. It doesn't disprove anything I've said.

If the Occult Ball's power was directly equal to Sagume Kishin's own, she wouldn't have even needed to have made it in the first place. She would have instead simply "changed the world with people's words" by herself, on her own, no balls required.

Okay. Addressing the translation part first, a sentence having an alternate way of reading it does not mean that reading is inherently correct. It does not matter which interpretation of 'mugen' we use, because regardless of which one, the occult balls hold infinite energy. If they spew out infinite energy all at once, it must hold infinite energy. If it spews out energy at a constant rate, it must also hold infinite energy in order to do so. The way the energy is released is no longer the point here.

You're assuming that the occult balls have already pre-built reserves of infinite energy contained within them, energy sourced directly from Sagume. Considering how they actually function in the story, that's almost certainly not the case.

If a man builds a perpetual motion machine, there's no reason to believe the machine's effectively infinite reserve of power directly scales to that man in any way, shape or form. These occult balls don't instantly pop dreams into reality, they don't seem to distort reality regardless of scale or distance from a potential user, they need all seven of them to be brought together to be able to do much of anything, and they need a minimum number of people sincerely believing in something to do much of anything either.

You're acting like these occult balls are Infinity Stones, but they're nothing more than dollar-store Dragon Balls/Chaos Emeralds.

You've rejected WoG statements in the past, so it really seems like you'll always just be a brick wall with 0 willingness to admit when your argument no longer holds water.

@Promestein @Antvasima are the same people jumping on my case for presumed provocations going to have a problem with this too?

Or is this different somehow?

 

[RethPo]

Could everybody calm down here and stop stirring things up?
Im guessing youd be saying whoever created the occult balls would scale to high 3-A (since the balls themselves dont release al the energy at once). The issue is. Why are we just assuming it has infinite energy stored up in them that just gets released?
And not yknow, just energy constantly replenishing itself whenever its lost or just producing it with some magical means?
Some of this high 3-A stuff really sounds were like scraping the bottom of the barrel here...

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I did. It doesn't disprove anything I've said.

If the Occult Ball's power was directly equal to Sagume Kishin's own, she wouldn't have even needed to have made it in the first place. She would have instead simply "changed the world with people's words" by herself, on her own, no balls required.

"If Yukari has reality warping powers why didn't she just solve all the incidents by herself?" Look. It is a recurring theme in Touhou for characters who have abilities clearly capable of solving/causing a problem to not use them. Yukari, Reimu, any of the god tiers, Sakuya, etc. Sometimes PIS is necessary for a game's plot to function at all. Again, it bears repeating that Sagume is not unique in this regard.

If a man builds a perpetual motion machine, there's no reason to believe the machine's effectively infinite reserve of power directly scales to that man in any way, shape or form. These occult balls don't instantly pop dreams into reality, they don't seem to distort reality regardless of scale or distance from a potential user, they need all seven of them to be brought together to be able to do much of anything, and they need a minimum number of people sincerely believing in something to do much of anything either.

You're acting like these occult balls are Infinity Stones, but they're nothing more than dollar-store Dragon Balls/Chaos Emeralds.

Yes, because in that example there is no indication that his 'power' scales to the energy being created. Except for Sagume, we have clear, explicit statements to prove that she scales. It's not someone else's power, it's not some external energy source, it's her own god damn power.

And just because an item has a specific limitation that restricts how or when it can be used, that doesn't affect its tier in the slightest. We don't judge other items on the wiki in this way, why would the occult balls be an exception? Besides, Miko's statement was purely about the Lunar Capital ball that Sagume created. There is nothing in her statement implying she was referring to the balls collectively.

 

[Promestein]

We're really just splitting hairs at this point...

 

[Guardian_Doge]

In my opinion, in regards to rethpo, I don’t think it’s scraping the bottom of the barrel. I mean, past ratings for touhou were honestly discussed for extensive periods of time, and the additions we make, have been consistent and talked out, if there’s something “illogical” in question to context, we do our best to explain it, if malomtek is going to continue demanding more context that just can’t be summoned out of nowhere, simply because he think his argument is right, or better then quite frankly we should just delete touhou on the wiki.

Which is why we’re defending the current ratings, and High 3-A/low 2-C, because we and others like saikou have done so much to revise this verse, to revert it back to something like 4-A or 3-B just seems extremely unnecessary in a practical manner.

I likely won’t participate in this thread, unless something for the dream world stuff is questioned. Bye everyone.

 

[Malomtek]

"If Yukari has reality warping powers why didn't she just solve all the incidents by herself?" Look. It is a recurring theme in Touhou for characters who have abilities clearly capable of solving/causing a problem to not use them. Yukari, Reimu, any of the god tiers, Sakuya, etc. Sometimes PIS is necessary for a game's plot to function at all. Again, it bears repeating that Sagume is not unique in this regard.

That sounds like yet another BS excuse. Why does Sagume need magic balls to do something she can supposedly already do on her own?

Yes, because in that example there is no indication that his 'power' scales to the energy being created. Except for Sagume, we have clear, explicit statements to prove that she scales. It's not someone else's power, it's not some external energy source, it's her own god damn power.

"Using her power, she created a secret power stone" isn't proof of anything, and it isn't any more an indication that Sagume's raw power scales to the occult balls than the perpetual motion machine builder directly scales to his invention. Sagume's weird causality manipulation powers shouldn't really scale to any energy amount in particular.

The Dragon Balls are created with Kami's own power too, but we don't do 1:1 scaling between Kami's and Shenron's powers and abilities, do we?

And just because an item has a specific limitation that restricts how or when it can be used, that doesn't affect its tier in the slightest. We don't judge other items on the wiki in this way, why would the occult balls be an exception? Besides, Miko's statement was purely about the Lunar Capital ball that Sagume created. There is nothing in her statement implying she was referring to the balls collectively.

Why would balls of supposedly already infinite power, who's sole purpose is to do funky stuff with reality by messing with beliefs, have any sort of specific limitations on how or when they can be used?

Now if that specific Lunarian Ball is the only one described as "infinite", then I'm not sure why any of the other balls should be treated as "infinite" as well. Those non-Lunarian balls should be considered to be at an "unknown" tier (because they're mostly featless) individually, and only "infinite" when put together with the Lunarian occult ball.

Wait, since not even the Lunarian occult ball has any "infinite" feats, and its own "infinite" statement can be reasonably interpreted very differently from what is being presented by the Touhou supporters in the thread, I guess I can say that argument is SoL regardless.

if malomtek is going to continue demanding more context that just can’t be summoned out of nowhere, simply because he think his argument is right, or better then quite frankly we should just delete touhou on the wiki.

I'm not specifically "demanding more context", I'm bringing all those quotes you guys advance as evidence into context.