- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #281
We actually see storm clouds around the void in that scan. It's very likely natural lightning.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Cardfight speed downgrade
- Thread starter Quangotjokes
- Start date
- 17,171
- 5,028
And in the very next episode, Asaka's Units block them with ease.
Your only really helping cementing the point that Units are all relative to each other here in speed.
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #283
All that proves is he endured it before being destroyed.
- 52,712
- 46,992
He wasn't hit immediately. Rewatch your own scan.
- 17,171
- 5,028
That is not lightning clouds, its nothingness. Takuto explicitly confirms this by the end of S2.
They're depicted as lightning clouds or some strange looking darkness here because we did not yet know of Void or what it was until later in the series.
- 17,171
- 5,028
On top of that, the lightning that hit Blaster Blade, Blaster Dark and Dragonic Overlord literally restricts their movement and seals them away inside of Void's nothingness, clearly indicating that it's an attack from Void and not some naturally formed independent lightning.
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #287
That isn't a reaction speed feat, this site doesn't allow attacks that you know are going to happen count as reaction feats.
- 52,712
- 46,992
That still doesn't help your """""Anti-feat"""""
- 17,171
- 5,028
Her Units blocked the attacks after Tsukuyomi's moonlight goes after them, so yes, it would be a reaction feat.
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #290
The attacks are fired after they're summoned. So no, it wouldn't.
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #291
It's also a different attack, moon lasers or something.
- 18,196
- 19,625
Because they are actively not trying to fly off the planet. Doesn't mean their speeds aren't comparably that fast.
They are jumping. It's not running and sticking to the planet, it's running and jumping and falling back down with speeds that can cross the observable universe in 3 seconds.
Because that isn't how this site operates. We don't go with "visibly lower" speeds as thats going, again, with the borderline telegraph argument of character movements being telegraphed for us viewers to see, despite them moving faster or far far faster in-universe.
Travel speed is travel speed and the speed of ones running, jumping, leaping, flying, whatever similar action isn't magically lower when it's convenient for your incredulity.
So you're yet again ignoring the argument I'm actually making and replacing it with some arguments other people have made. Cool.
When speaking about series where several FTL and MFTL+ feats are performed despite not at all matching our reality, that is to be expected. This logic of yours doesn't even have to apply to just here. This goes for practically any series with a FTL character that doesnt jump off planets or zoom past star systems when moving in small areas.
And taking it seriously for even a second results in quite the amount of downgrades.
"At minimum we shouldn't use it for scaling considering the extent of the contradiction."
"If you do that you're gonna downgrade every FTL or MFTL+ series"
False equivalence since things like PIS only apply when the character is proven to be capable of what they're claimed to do and the story just ***** itself over. And I can assure you that PIS doesnt go for one-feat characters.
Yeah. I said to your face that you made a false equivalence, and then made a comparable false equivalence. Congratulations on figuring out that I made a false equivalence.
Speed feat for the bullets. Especially for a verse like Vanguard where Cray has stupidly advanced tech and weaponry that their weapons are not at all just ordinary ones like ours.
Amazing.
Also, now that I think about it, it seems a little bit weird to scale space flight travel speed to running travel speed done by a different character just because they're both technically "travel speed".
They are jumping. It's not running and sticking to the planet, it's running and jumping and falling back down with speeds that can cross the observable universe in 3 seconds.
Because that isn't how this site operates. We don't go with "visibly lower" speeds as thats going, again, with the borderline telegraph argument of character movements being telegraphed for us viewers to see, despite them moving faster or far far faster in-universe.
Travel speed is travel speed and the speed of ones running, jumping, leaping, flying, whatever similar action isn't magically lower when it's convenient for your incredulity.
So you're yet again ignoring the argument I'm actually making and replacing it with some arguments other people have made. Cool.
When speaking about series where several FTL and MFTL+ feats are performed despite not at all matching our reality, that is to be expected. This logic of yours doesn't even have to apply to just here. This goes for practically any series with a FTL character that doesnt jump off planets or zoom past star systems when moving in small areas.
And taking it seriously for even a second results in quite the amount of downgrades.
"At minimum we shouldn't use it for scaling considering the extent of the contradiction."
"If you do that you're gonna downgrade every FTL or MFTL+ series"
False equivalence since things like PIS only apply when the character is proven to be capable of what they're claimed to do and the story just ***** itself over. And I can assure you that PIS doesnt go for one-feat characters.
Yeah. I said to your face that you made a false equivalence, and then made a comparable false equivalence. Congratulations on figuring out that I made a false equivalence.
Speed feat for the bullets. Especially for a verse like Vanguard where Cray has stupidly advanced tech and weaponry that their weapons are not at all just ordinary ones like ours.
Amazing.
Also, now that I think about it, it seems a little bit weird to scale space flight travel speed to running travel speed done by a different character just because they're both technically "travel speed".
- 17,171
- 5,028
Blatantly lying once again. Never in Vanguard does anyone summon defensive before a Vanguard attacks. You pulled this out of absolutely nowhere.
And it's wrong anyway. Tsukuyomi attacks, and THEN Asaka summons forth Units who then THROW attacks at Tsukuyomi's moonlight to defend.
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #294
No, Tsukiyomi is commanded to attack then Asuka counters with block summons. They then manifest, and then we see the laser or whatever they are being fired.
Unless we're going to assume Asuka did all this before light could reach her which is very much absurd.
11:20
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #295
Agnaa has been asking for your jumping feat. Can you provide it for him.
- 17,171
- 5,028
The semantics don't change a thing Agnaa. It doesn't mean their speeds aren't comparatively the same, and our site always allows the idea of characters traveling and moving as fast as what their feats grants them.
And exactly what argument? Little semantics you made up that haven't ever been used and applied on this site?
If you aren't going to even try and get to an actual point here, don't waste my time with this.
Change the standards then if you feel this way. Until that happens, not my problem (and I doubt that would happen anyway).
- 17,171
- 5,028
Rewatch the clip. The attacks are already coming down BEFORE Asaka's Units defend against them with their own attacks.
11:31 Tsukuyomi's moonlight goes after them
11:34 Asaka's defending Units deflect the moonlight
So yes, Asaka's Units did this before the light reached her.
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #298
That isn't moonlight though, those definitely don't meet the standard for lasers on this site.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 6,447
- 5,160
Kukui's and Agnaa's standards discussion aside, this thread seems to be picking every little excuse to try and downgrade the speed of this verse and honestly, it's quite annoying to see these petty incredulous arguments persist.
- 18,196
- 19,625
The semantics don't change a thing Agnaa. It doesn't mean their speeds aren't comparatively the same, and our site always allows the idea of characters traveling and moving as fast as what their feats grants them.
I've asked a few people off-site, Armorchompy and Mori responded and both seemed to lean towards my position rather than yours on this whole "running/jumping anti-feat" deal. But tbf they haven't read the whole thread or put their two cents in directly.
But at this point it's just both of us telling each other that the site doesn't work that way, so not much can be done here without more input.
Change the standards then if you feel this way. Until that happens, not my problem (and I doubt that would happen anyway).
We have standards that say you can automatically scale flight speed to travel speed?
I've asked a few people off-site, Armorchompy and Mori responded and both seemed to lean towards my position rather than yours on this whole "running/jumping anti-feat" deal. But tbf they haven't read the whole thread or put their two cents in directly.
But at this point it's just both of us telling each other that the site doesn't work that way, so not much can be done here without more input.
Change the standards then if you feel this way. Until that happens, not my problem (and I doubt that would happen anyway).
We have standards that say you can automatically scale flight speed to travel speed?
- 17,171
- 5,028
They literally directly come from the moon.............
- 17,171
- 5,028
Oh wow, a few people vs an entire site with hundreds of users. Totally compelling.
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #303
- 18,196
- 19,625
Or, in other words, the first two staff members who replied vs your baseless estimation of everyone on the site.
- 17,171
- 5,028
This would've been laughed at, picked apart and met with heavy criticism had this been another other series on the chopping block.
Can't wait to downgrade a whole chunk of verses where their movements in battle are supposedly not the same level of speed they've demonstrated to move at or scale to.
- 17,171
- 5,028
2 users who can also very much just be wrong as much as you think my claims are baseless.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 6,447
- 5,160
yeah probs
- 18,196
- 19,625
Could happen, we'll have to wait and see.
But we don't have to wait and see to you respond to this part of my post you glossed over, about you scaling flight speed to running speed and calling that a standard of the site.
- 18,196
- 19,625
I've managed to chill a little and write a summary explanation post.
This chain of conversation, divorced from the rest, started here.
With me arguing that this speed feat doesn't seem to align with our new standards for scaling travel feats to reactions.
The feat in question being, a character traveled to another universe (calculated by assuming this involves they traveled to the edge of the observable universe in 3 seconds), seeing some stars zoom past them as small dots in the process.
Eventually Kukui started wanting to change our standards for scaling travel feats to reactions, and so took another angle for why the feat would still scale;
Arguing that, even if it's only flight speed, other characters upscale from it, and those characters have their travel speed scale to their reactions, as they can perceive each other traveling.
I asked for elaboration on what "perceiving each other traveling" means, and he says it's because those characters run and jump after each other.
I said I'd more take that as an anti-feat for their travel speed, or at worst a scene that'd be inapplicable for scaling, since if they were running fast enough to cross the observable universe in 3 seconds, while jumping around each other, having gravity hold them to the planet with no issue, it seems like they're actually running at ludicrously slower speeds.
Kukui said that the site doesn't operate like that, and that if those standards were applied most FTL and above verses would be downgraded.
There's some ancillary stuff and places the conversation got sidetracked, but those are the currently relevant points.
- 17,887
- 15,375
from what i've seen here i do indeed agree with agnaa
but also don't quote me saying my opinion off-site ever again
- 18,196
- 19,625
I thought it'd be okay if I qualified it with "seemed to", "lean toward", and "but they haven't read the thread".
- 11,185
- 14,555
Yeah, travelling to another universe is travel speed. It won't scale to any other speed by default.
I'd like to see the evidence of where these characters are reacting to each other while travelling between universes, if that is what is being claimed for scaling.
But yes, travel speed not scaling to any other speed in cases like these is site standards. If other verses scale their reaction/combat speed from their travel speed for no reason, they also need revisions.
I'd like to see the evidence of where these characters are reacting to each other while travelling between universes, if that is what is being claimed for scaling.
But yes, travel speed not scaling to any other speed in cases like these is site standards. If other verses scale their reaction/combat speed from their travel speed for no reason, they also need revisions.
- 17,171
- 5,028
No, there isn’t anywhere in our standards where we can only scale characters travel speeds while they are traveling across a large distance. Travel speed is travel speed, reacting to their flight, running, leaping, etc etc mid movement would also be reacting to how fast they are traveling.
And if a character reacts to the travel movement of another character, there is absolutely no reason to say their reactions do not scale to the travel speed at that point without becoming extremely nit picky and finding any excuse in the book to not scale them outside of specifically formed circumstances.
Last edited:
- 17,887
- 15,375
Reacting to travel speed is a very stingy subject. I can easily follow an airplane fly over my head, but I'm not Transonic. A driver can easily keep their eyes on someone else driving next to them, but they're not Subsonic. And if I have a fistfight with someone on top of a moving train, I'm still not Subsonic. You should show the actual feats if you haven't already, it's a case by case thing.
- 17,171
- 5,028
That is obviously not the same thing as what im talking about here armor. Im talking about an opponent traveling straight at you with running, leaping, flight, etc. and reacting to them while they're moving at you to attack.
An example of this can be shown here, in the first 15 seconds of this episode. A Unit charges at another Unit to attack them, and the latter reacts by summoning another Unit to defend. Then the attacking Unit quickly leaps at the opponent and the opponent Unit still reacts by blocking their tackle with their shield-
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #316
That isn't really proof that he was running at mftl speeds. Especially considering the summoned monster was summoned mid run by a regular human.
- 17,171
- 5,028
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #318
Don't lie, you know very well Kai was battling against his opponent. Kai, the human, summoned the monster to block. As it's a mechanic of the card game.
3:06
- 17,171
- 5,028
Yes, while literally possessing and using another ******* Unit to battle with.........
- 8,151
- 4,141
- Thread starter
- #320
Irrelevant, he still has to actively use the cards. We both know the battles and card games are happening simultaneously.
