Same actually… incon FRA
Rayleigh's profile doesn't have a prime version.
The downplay.
No. You are downplaying more. You are saying stuff that we don't have enough info on and making them facts with your head canon...
This basically sums it up. Even Prime Rayleigh has shown nothing that implies that he could beat the Oden who faced Kaido, where Oden considered himself as the only one who could take Kaido down at that time.
Well saidThis basically sums it up. Even Prime Rayleigh has shown nothing that implies that he could beat the Oden who faced Kaido, where Oden considered himself as the only one who could take Kaido down at that time.
1.Clashed with Primebeard who sensed Oden from far away and considered him as something incredible.
2.Got back up immediately from a haki-imbued, named attack from Roger, and was barely injured. (He was also ready to take on both Prime Rayleigh and Gaban who wanted to 2 vs 1 Oden).
^In both those feats, Oden was nowhere in his prime since it was said that he has gotten much stronger when he came back to Wano. This happend 5 years before he returned to Wano, look at how Luffy and co. developed in 2 years (or hell, look at how much Luffy developed in 2 weeks when he was in Kaido's prison, from getting one-shotted by him to matching him).
3.This.
.
4.Also this.
.
5.Kaido said that there will never another Samurai as powerful as Oden.
.
5.What Oden said in his letter to Toki (Where Rayleigh was in his prime).
6.Permanently scarred Kaido with his first attack, while injured, and was about to finish him off with his second attack. This is a Oden who naked danced on the streets every day for 5 years, so he probably wasn't even in his top form.
7.Oden is a stamina machine, he fought and beat an entire yakuza gang when he was 9, bunch of samurais and families when he was 15, an entire army of hundreds of bandits, including Ashura, in one night when he was 18, he spent 3 days and 3 nights being dragged by WB's ship while he had only one rope for support and even after being attacked by sea monsters and facing storms, he didn't release the rope at any time, he fought Kaido and his army in a 11 vs 1000 (Where Kaido needed 5 years to even have a chance and yet they would have lost if it wasn't for the granny with Mr.2's powers who distracted Oden as he was about to kill Kaido), and the legendary hour is still one of the most impressive stamina feats in the whole series. Oden's stamina is ridiculous while Rayleigh has shown nothing that implies that his stamina is anywhere near Oden's level, he started to pant and get tired after holding off Kizaru, who wasn't even completely serious.
Oden takes this against either Rayleigh, old or prime.
How is it downplay? He was becoming fatigued from doing so, even if you don't believe me, believe his profile because it literally says so.The downplay.
No. You are downplaying more. You are saying stuff that we don't have enough info on and making them facts with your head canon...
When did I ever say that.
No I won't.
Maybe...
It literally is head canon
if we go by feats Rayleigh did more damage to kizaru.
no proof.
that he can held off an admiral (and damaged him) and still want to do more...
His profile has either bad wording or made a mistake since at the end of fighting Kizaru he wasn't tired at all...
You didn't have to separate every few words of my post, it's just annoying to respond to.
I never downplay anyone, this is just my honest opinion for who wins, Oden vs Old Rayleigh.
Kizaru wasn't casual at all...
Yes you did
That's ok but don't downplay. Stop bringing Oden feats... Never did I say Rayleigh wins or Oden loses... I only said don't downplay, that's all.
Kizaru is just using a sword, nothing else
Did you even read? Bro… and the downplay CRAZY
I DONT CARE ABOUT ODEN. I don’t care if Rayleigh has weaker feats… I’m saying DONT DOWNPLAY
We not done until you stop downplaying Rayleigh…
He did against Rayleigh. With the scan I provided… you are clearly trolling or trying to get me mad or something…
You sound like a broken record with how you keep saying "downplay" to literally every fact that is brought to you.Did you even read? Bro… and the downplay CRAZY
I DONT CARE ABOUT ODEN. I don’t care if Rayleigh has weaker feats… I’m saying DONT DOWNPLAY
We not done until you stop downplaying Rayleigh…
He did against Rayleigh. With the scan I provided… you are clearly trolling or trying to get me mad or something…sad
if you don’t wanna stop with your bs and stop downplaying then bye…
That's just proves my point... Kizaru literally says you're holding off a marine admiral and still you want more...?You sound like a broken record with how you keep saying "downplay" to literally every fact that is brought to you.
Rayleigh WAS in fact getting tired, this isn't an opinion, this is a fact and if you can't accept then that you're in the wrong place.
He was panting and Kizaru was being his usual self. Kizaru just took Rayleigh's comment as an insult, I genuinely hope you don't believe that Rayleigh can take on an admiral and deal with anything else at the same time. He can't. Kizaru wasn't even being serious, and again, Rayleigh was panting. Oden dealt with much stronger characters than Kizaru (Primebeard and Kaido), and Kizaru was being his usual self against Rayleigh who could only hold him off.That's just proves my point... Kizaru literally says you're holding off a marine admiral and still you want more...?
At the end of the fight or even in the fight you never see Rayleigh getting tired fighting Kizaru. Btw don't use this
As him getting tired... That's him stressing on what to do and what's happening to the straw hat crew... Not the fight
Monkey didn't even say that Rayleigh would win.
He gave reasons why you guys are downplaying Rayleigh and those reasons sounds better to me and also the fact Rayleigh was Roger's right hand man so he should be superior to oden
Did you even try reading any comment other than Monkey's comments? Oden has much better feats. Rayleigh could only hold off a casual Kizaru and Kizaru<<<Primebeard and Kaido, Kaido would have died to Oden after 2 hits. Oden has much stronger AP and stamina than Rayleigh. Rayleigh started to pant against Kizaru after a few minutes, while Oden can fight for hours and days against stronger enemies. Even when Oden was 18, he could fight against hundreds of bandits and Ashura and beat them all in one night. He fought against Kaido and his army in a 11 vs 1000 and Oden's endurance far exceeded what Kaido and his army imagined. Oden>or=Kaido>>>Kizaru>>>Casual Kizaru>Rayleigh. You didn't give any reason as to why you agree with @MonkeyOfLife other than "don't downplay Rayleigh". Where are the feats? Rayleigh has shitty stamina while Oden is a stamina monster, Rayleigh couldn't beat a casual Kizaru who's weaker than Kaido who would've lost against Oden. This isn't even up to discussion.
WB made Marco the 1st division commander and Oden the 2nd division commander even though Oden would've taken a shit on that Marco. What kind of logic is that? Oden literally considered himself as the only one capable of taking Kaido down at that time, and he knew Rayleigh. Oden>Prime Rayleigh and Prime Rayleigh has better stamina than his old self, but that's about it, Prime Rayleigh is Admiral Level, while Oden is Yonko Level.
Please pay attention.This basically sums it up. Even Prime Rayleigh has shown nothing that implies that he could beat the Oden who faced Kaido, where Oden considered himself as the only one who could take Kaido down at that time.
1.Clashed with Primebeard who sensed Oden from far away and considered him as something incredible.
2.Got back up immediately from a haki-imbued, named attack from Roger, and was barely injured. (He was also ready to take on both Prime Rayleigh and Gaban who wanted to 2 vs 1 Oden).
^In both those feats, Oden was nowhere near his prime since it was said that he has gotten much stronger when he came back to Wano. This happend 5 years before he returned to Wano, look at how Luffy and co. developed in 2 years (or hell, look at how much Luffy developed in 2 weeks when he was in Kaido's prison, from getting one-shotted by him to matching him).
3.This.
.
4.Also this.
.
5.Kaido said that there will never another Samurai as powerful as Oden.
.
5.What Oden said in his letter to Toki (Where Rayleigh was in his prime).
6.Permanently scarred Kaido with his first attack, while injured, and was about to finish him off with his second attack. This is a Oden who naked danced on the streets every day for 5 years, so he probably wasn't even in his top form.
7.Oden is a stamina machine, he fought and beat an entire yakuza gang when he was 9, bunch of samurais and families when he was 15, an entire army of hundreds of bandits, including Ashura, in one night when he was 18, he spent 3 days and 3 nights being dragged by WB's ship while he had only one rope for support and even after being attacked by sea monsters and facing storms, he didn't release the rope at any time, he fought Kaido and his army in a 11 vs 1000 (Where Kaido needed 5 years to even have a chance and yet they would have lost if it wasn't for the granny with Mr.2's powers who distracted Oden as he was about to kill Kaido), and the legendary hour is still one of the most impressive stamina feats in the whole series. Oden's stamina is ridiculous while Rayleigh has shown nothing that implies that his stamina is anywhere near Oden's level, he started to pant and get tired after holding off Kizaru, who wasn't even completely serious.
Oden takes this against either Rayleigh, old or prime.
No he was not
That's not what I said... Rayleigh while old is holding of kizaru and is thinking about a whole different situation at the same time...
Kizaru was serious...
While dealing damage and not thinking about kizaru at all.
He was panting while fighting against a Kizaru who wasn't fully serious. Seriously, nobody is downplaying Rayleigh, but he he started panting after a few minutes, that's a fact, not us trying to downplay him. That's just Oda's way of showing that he has gotten old, his strength remained however, and his strength is admiral level, not "Kaido level", like Oden.No he was not
That's not what I said... Rayleigh while old is holding of kizaru and is thinking about a whole different situation at the same time...
Kizaru was serious...
And Rayleigh was panting at the situation with the straw hats
While dealing damage and not thinking about kizaru at all.
