Major Mortal Kombat Revision, Part I

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I kinda feel Kotal should just be straight up 9-A, likely High 8-C, not just with sun beans

Seems fine

Was it stated Liu wiped him from existence using the Hiurglass?

I'd like to hear why though, Kotal is the last character that we have to deal with right now and we might be able to close this CRT for good if we finish our problem with his rating (hopefully)

Okay

No, but the energy did come from the Hourglass. Kronika said that it was raw temporal energy that flows inside the Hourglass, plus we see multiple instances of people being erased from time when they turn into sand (especially in the context of Kronika's powers over the sands of time). It would make more sense if FG Liu erased KoT Shang rather than just destroy his physical body. Also, since this comes from Hourglass, this EE might be quite potent since it's related to the Hourglass' time powers, meaning that it erases them as if they never existed in time (which should include the body, soul, and mind)

 

[SamanPatou]

Some more questions: Will base Shao Kahn be 9-A? What are the other 9-A feats? We should really make a list on the verse page of which calc are going to use.
If we are discarding Fatalities for scaling, I guess LS Class K will be gone as well, as no one ripped spines in cutscenes iirc (Scorpion may have done it to Bi-Han in MK9, but we don't see it happening).

Also, a note about the comics not being canon anymore shall be written.

 

[Hellbeast]

I'd like to hear why though, Kotal is the last character that we have to deal with right now and we might be able to close this CRT for good if we finish our problem with his rating (hopefully)

He just has too many showings outside of his Sun Powers for High 8-C imo with his fights against Shao and potentially Sub-Zero from X

No, but the energy did come from the Hourglass. Kronika said that it was raw temporal energy that flows inside the Hourglass, plus we see multiple instances of people being erased from time when they turn into sand (especially in the context of Kronika's powers over the sands of time). It would make more sense if FG Liu erased KoT Shang rather than just destroy his physical body. Also, since this comes from Hourglass, this EE might be quite potent since it's related to the Hourglass' time powers, meaning that it erases them as if they never existed in time (which should include the body, soul, and mind)

Makes sense

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Some more questions: Will base Shao Kahn be 9-A? What are the other 9-A feats? We should really make a list on the verse page of which calc are going to use.
If we are discarding Fatalities for scaling, I guess LS Class K will be gone as well, as no one ripped spines in cutscenes iirc (Scorpion may have done it to Bi-Han in MK9, but we don't see it happening).

Also, a note about the comics not being canon anymore shall be written.

Hold up, Shao Kahn is High 8-C for scaling to Sindel, Liu Kang, boosted Geras, and the 3 boosted Revenants who beat FG Liu Kang.

Yes I think we should add a list of feats. Most of the 9-A are actually uncalced (Revenant Liu collapsing the castle's basement ceiling) and some are just common feats (vaporizing people, freezing people, etc.) but to be specific we do have the destruction of a soulnado in MK9 and Scorpion's firenado (already in his profile)

We don't necessarily discard all fatalities. Later on in the thread, I convinced Mr King that we could use them since some feats and powers in some fatalities are canon to the story (Scorpion's toasty, Sub-Zero ripping spines from cyborgs, every depiction of MK11 Shang, etc.). Stuff like Sonya throwing someone into the blades of a helicopter and Cetrion's giantess fatality is excluded. It's more of a case by case basis.

Yes, but some comic events are heavily implied to be canon such as Kotal's war with the Shokan (not sure which part of that is canon) and Sub-Zero vs the entire Cyber Lin Kuei. That should be added too.

 

[Hellbeast]

Hold up, Shao Kahn is High 8-C for scaling to Sindel, Liu Kang, boosted Geras, and the 3 boosted Revenants who beat FG Liu Kang.

Yes I think we should add a list of feats. Most of the 9-A are actually uncalced (Revenant Liu collapsing the castle's basement ceiling) and some are just common feats (vaporizing people, freezing people, etc.) but to be specific we do have the destruction of a soulnado in MK9 and Scorpion's firenado (already in his profile)

There’s also a ton of really casual 9-B feats if it helps

Yes, but some comic events are heavily implied to be canon such as Kotal's war with the Shokan (not sure which part of that is canon) and Sub-Zero vs the entire Cyber Lin Kuei. That should be added too.

Yeah tons of elements are still canon; we just can’t take their word as gospel (maybe a blog with references could be compiled?)

 

[SamanPatou]

Hold up, Shao Kahn is High 8-C for scaling to Sindel, Liu Kang, boosted Geras, and the 3 boosted Revenants who beat FG Liu Kang.

Right, makes sense, I forgot the High 8-C feat wasn't performed by an Amulet-amped Raiden. Kitana would be High 8-C too then, I suppose?

Yes I think we should add a list of feats. Most of the 9-A are actually uncalced (Revenant Liu collapsing the castle's basement ceiling) and some are just common feats (vaporizing people, freezing people, etc.) but to be specific we do have the destruction of a soulnado in MK9 and Scorpion's firenado (already in his profile)

Can the soulnado really be used for scaling? It took time to be casted and was destroyed because Noob Saibot was thrown into it and somehow compromised its stability or something. I'm not arguing they can't reach similar levels of power, just that the feat itself is kinda weird.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Right, makes sense, I forgot the High 8-C feat wasn't performed by an Amulet-amped Raiden. Kitana would be High 8-C too then, I suppose?


Can the soulnado really be used for scaling? It took time to be casted and was destroyed because Noob Saibot was thrown into it and somehow compromised its stability or something. I'm not arguing they can't reach similar levels of power, just that the feat itself is kinda weird.

Only her boosted revenant form with the white clothing, when Kronika amped her so she and the others could stall God Liu.

IIRC Nightwolf attempted to block it with a forcefield, but it was strong enough to overpower the shield. However Nightwolf was left unscathed by the blast.

 

[SamanPatou]

I believe Kitana should be High 8-C even in base scaling from Shao Kahn, as she flat out defeated him in a direct fight, which was also reiterated in Aftermath. Shao is still stronger physically, and skill had a major role in the fight (as Shang Tsung pointed out) but Kitana couldn't be tiers below him. I know her stronger Revenant got defeated by Shao, and the same Kitana got defeated by Liu Kang in MK9, but those three keeping losing and winning to each other either is bad writing or makes them comparable overall.

You're right on Nightwolf, I don't know how good it could be for scaling (accounting surface area and the forcefield) but it's a good secondary feat.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Kitana blinded him, eyes are a natural weak spot, the fact that her revenant lost only helps this. Also, we avoid scaling people to the High 8-Cs that easy, Scorpion and Sub Zero, for example, would be High 8-C if that was the case, then Sonya would scale, then basically everyone would, the scaling becomes circular. This same Kitana lost to Sheeva and had no chance against Kahn/Sindel later

 

[Hellbeast]

Kitana blinded him, eyes are a natural weak spot, the fact that her revenant lost only helps this. Also, we avoid scaling people to the High 8-Cs that easy, Scorpion and Sub Zero, for example, would be High 8-C if that was the case, then Sonya would scale, then basically everyone would, the scaling becomes circular. This same Kitana lost to Sheeva and had no chance against Kahn/Sindel later

This
Kitana being top tier makes no sense and would open so many holes in the scaling

You can't simultaneously acknowledge Kitana being memed on by Liu Kang in MK9 (the same Kitana who fights Shao no less) and then getting merced by Shao while she was amped

 

[Antvasima]

Dante makes sense to me.

 

[SamanPatou]

But Kitana didn't just blind Shao, it wasn't a surprise attack, she flat out defeated him in direct combat, slashing his chest first and blinding him only after knocking him down first 1:52:54.
This is also a major plot point, she claims the throne of Outworld because of this victory, she can't just ignore such an important and clear fight.
It is also highlited again in Aftermath (13:00).

Characters of comparable strength can still win and lose to each other anyway. Skill is also an important factor, but it can't be the only one.

 

[Hellbeast]

Characters of comparable strength can still win and lose to each other anyway. Skill is also an important factor, but it can't be the only one.

Again tho they aren’t comparable; Kitana has no feats on the level of top tiers and get amped self being killed by Kahn makes absolutely no sense with your intended scaling

You can at most argue mid tier but even that is very generous since Kitana has one feat involving the top tiers vs characters like Kotal or Revenant Liu having several

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I believe this is similar to Kotal vs KJ, both fights being important to the progress of the story. Except this time, Kitana does land a deadly blow on Shao Kahn, but you could argue that piercing/slicing weapons can cut through much more durable opponents.

Compared to the fodder that get hurt when they are sliced by Kitana's fans, Shao Kahn seems to be fine being sliced multiple times by them. There's also a part where Shao gets stabbed in the right flank of his body by Kitana's fan (while folded into a dagger), where the liver is located. Yet another case of Kitana exploiting weak points against a stronger opponent.

Even with all this being mentioned, Kitana's base form beating someone who has consistent feats of beating top tiers is an outlier, she consistently wins and loses against lesser characters in cutscenes.

 

[SamanPatou]

Can't it be an outlier that Shao Kahn defeated the stronger revenant or Kitana being defeated by Sheeva? It seems to me are being arbitrary on what fights we call outlier or not just to fix our ratings, when all battles are technically clear battles. Netherrealm never did anything special to make coherent scaling, we could call it an outlier the fact that, in Aftermath, Shao defeated the very same Liu Kang who defeated him in MK9.

Or we can say the amped Kitana revenant isn't really that much stronger than before, actually all revenants seem to be inferior to others, either in skill or just strength, take it as you want. Some examples are Revenant Kung Lao and Liu Kang losing to their past self, Revenant Sindel losing to Jax, Revenant Scorpion, Revenant Jade losing to her past self, Revenant Scorpion and Sub-Zero losing to Johnny and Sonya etc.

Even using the fan blades reasoning is kinda flimsy, it would still be a 9-A character defeating an High 8-C in clear combat and slashing him multiple times causing visible pain, unless we want argue that the fans are in a different tier than Kitana herself and in her fight against Shao Kahn she didn't use anything else.

Imho, either Shao is weaker than we think or other characters are stronger than we think, I'm uneasy with this cherrypicking with some fights excluding others. Kitana defeating Shao isn't even a random encounter fight as many throughout the trilogy, it's a very important point for the plot.

Also, skill might actually be an important point. Kitana losing to Liu could be due that, even though she could harm him. The same is for Shao, he is phisically stronger than Kitana overall, but what made the difference was explicitly skill. But skill alone isn't enough to justify her flat out winning over Shao.

 

[Hellbeast]

Can't it be an outlier that Shao Kahn defeated the stronger revenant or Kitana being defeated by Sheeva?

No

It seems to me are being arbitrary on what fights we call outlier or not just to fix our ratings, when all battles are technically clear battles. Netherrealm never did anything special to make coherent scaling, we could call it an outlier the fact that, in Aftermath, Shao defeated the very same Liu Kang who defeated him in MK9.

The difference is we have things outside of one fight
Liu Kang also has a short battle with Shao in MK11's arena (just after the first Kotal fight) and is generally a top tier.

Shao being a top tier is consistent because he has three separate fights against the top tier Liu Kang and is already somewhat superior to Kotal Kahn

Kitana has literally one feat that puts her as a top tier and that's Shao; everything else makes her much weaker then him

• She loses to a casual Liu Kang outside of Mortal Kombat
• Gets murdered by Sindel even with a numbers advantage
• Has difficulty with Sareena
• Gets beaten by Jax

* Loses to Cassie Cage as a Revenant
* Fights and beats Kollector
*Fights and beats Skarlet

• Loses to Sheeva (Who might not be going all out here)
• Loses to Sindel and is completely helpless after

The vast majority of her fights have her as a low tier; this isn't just a matter of outliers. It's where the character is repeatedly and consistently placed by the narrative and fights. She doesn't have an abaundance of top tier fights or scaling (IE Kotal and Kung Lao) that would make her applicably a mid tier either.

The simplest explanation is her besting Shao is the outlier not the other way around

Or we can say the amped Kitana revenant isn't really that much stronger than before, actually all revenants seem to be inferior to others, either in skill or just strength, take it as you want. Some examples are Revenant Kung Lao and Liu Kang losing to their past self, Revenant Sindel losing to Jax, Revenant Scorpion, Revenant Jade losing to her past self, Revenant Scorpion and Sub-Zero losing to Johnny and Sonya etc.

We're referring to White Revenant Kitana which could press Fire God Liu Kang alongside an amped Jade and Kung Lao and then those latter two fight an amped Shang Tsung and MK11 Sindel.

They're top tiers and much stronger then the normal Revenants who are more confined to what Shinnok's power can grant them. FGL has to use the Jinsei to fuel himself here.

Imho, either Shao is weaker than we think or other characters are stronger than we think, I'm uneasy with this cherrypicking with some fights excluding others. Kitana defeating Shao isn't even a random encounter fight as many throughout the trilogy, it's a very important point for the plot.

That's just the scaling at this point
Many of these fights don't make a lick of sense thanks to the adoption of "anyone fights anyone" which means some fights have to be taken as outliers

Also, skill might actually be an important point. Kitana losing to Liu could be due that, even though she could harm him. The same is for Shao, he is phisically stronger than Kitana overall, but what made the difference was explicitly skill. But skill alone isn't enough to justify her flat out winning over Shao.

Nothing suggests her beating Shao makes any sense either

 

[SamanPatou]

I wouldn't use Base Revenant Kitana as a reasoning to gauge Alive Kitana's strength, the Revenants demonstrated to be inferior to their alive counterparts, leaving only Kitana's loss against Sheeva as her only loss to a low tier (and MK11 Sheeva can reasonably be stronger than her MK9 self, who lost to everyone).

But Kitana can perfectly be overall inferior to Liu, Sindel and Shao in terms of strength, I just don't find it so farfecthed that she could backscale and take a victory on Shao given the right conditions and skill (I might repeate myself, but that's what granted him victory).

Even the white revenants aren't good examples, they press Fire God Liu Kang because they outnumber him, and then they just get overcome once he taps into the Jinsei, and have proven themselves inferior to Shao, Sindel and Shang Tsung once taken in 1v1 fights. (let alone that Shang Tsung was already much stronger than both Sindel and Shao)

And honestly, if some fights have to be taken as outliers, why don't take the lesser ones, instead of a major plot point that is highlited even a second time?

I think Kitana (and Sheeva maybe) could safely backscale, it makes sense with the story and isn't a stretch, no other character is affected by this anyway, as Base Revenant Kitana doesn't scale to Alive Kitana.

 

[Hellbeast]

I wouldn't use Base Revenant Kitana as a reasoning to gauge Alive Kitana's strength, the Revenants demonstrated to be inferior to their alive counterparts, leaving only Kitana's loss against Sheeva as her only loss to a low tier (and MK11 Sheeva can reasonably be stronger than her MK9 self, who lost to everyone).

They job more but they mostly fit with their respective place in the scaling
The only one quantifiably weaker is Liu Kang for reasons we've already discussed

But Kitana can perfectly be overall inferior to Liu, Sindel and Shao in terms of strength, I just don't find it so farfecthed that she could backscale and take a victory on Shao given the right conditions and skill (I might repeate myself, but that's what granted him victory).

Why would she backscale?
Skill doesn't suddenly mean that her beating Shao isn't an outlier

Even the white revenants aren't good examples, they press Fire God Liu Kang because they outnumber him, and then they just get overcome once he taps into the Jinsei, and have proven themselves inferior to Shao, Sindel and Shang Tsung once taken in 1v1 fights. (let alone that Shang Tsung was already much stronger than both Sindel and Shao)

They were still able to press the three of them; there's no way you can argue they're overwhelmingly weaker

And honestly, if some fights have to be taken as outliers, why don't take the lesser ones, instead of a major plot point that is highlited even a second time?

Because the "lesser ones" make up the overwhelming majority of her fights
It's a numbers game and the Shao Kahn thing isnt supported by that

I think Kitana (and Sheeva maybe) could safely backscale, it makes sense with the story and isn't a stretch, no other character is affected by this anyway, as Base Revenant Kitana doesn't scale to Alive Kitana.

Sheeva is a jobber with two wins, Kitana and Kotal Kahn (A Kotal who can barely stand) there's no way she backscales from the Top Tiers

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm gonna have to agree with Hellbeast here, Kitana beating Shao once with it being referenced later doesn't magically make her half a dozen(if not more) other losses against people who Shao would fodderize dissappear

 

[SamanPatou]

They job more but they mostly fit with their respective place in the scaling
The only one quantifiably weaker is Liu Kang for reasons we've already discussed

Sindel also, she loses to Jax in MKX. But also Kung Lao is weaker than his past self, while Scorpion and Sub-Zero could be taken on and defeated by Sonya and Jax. Revenants are consistently protrayed as jobbers and lose to their alive counterparts and other low tiers.

Why would she backscale?
Skill doesn't suddenly mean that her beating Shao isn't an outlier

Because she could wound him three times in cutscenes and defeat him in a fight, her being physically weaker is compensated by her skill, which allowed her to defeat Shao (it's also what Shang said about him). But since skill isn't obviously enough, I think there's ground to backscale her.

They were still able to press the three of them; there's no way you can argue they're overwhelmingly weaker

Sindel and Shao kinda made short work of them, while Kung Lao got defeated off screen but Shang is already superior to Sindel and Shao. For what we know White Revenant Kitana could be comparable to Alive Kitana, having filled the gap with her counterpart thanks to Kronika's power boost.

Sheeva is a jobber with two wins, Kitana and Kotal Kahn (A Kotal who can barely stand) there's no way she backscales from the Top Tiers

Aren't we placing Kotal to "At least 9-A, likely High 8-C" without sun powers for the same reasons, though? Why couldn't Sheeva and Kitana have the same rating, considering that the latter did better against Shao than how Kotal did.

 

[Antvasima]

Kitana uses bladed weapons, which are recurrently used as more impressive than in real life within fiction. Couldn't we just keep her own statistics lower than those of Shao Kahn, but scale the piercing damage of her sharp blades from him, as a separate statistic? We use something similar for Wolverine.

 

[Hellbeast]

Sindel also, she loses to Jax in MKX. But also Kung Lao is weaker than his past self, while Scorpion and Sub-Zero could be taken on and defeated by Sonya and Jax. Revenants are consistently protrayed as jobbers and lose to their alive counterparts and other low tiers.

I believe I suggested Sindel having a separate key

The other two times she’s amped; she has Shang’s Souls in MK9 and is brought back using the Jinsei (which enhances Fire God Liu and Shinnok)

Because she could wound him three times in cutscenes and defeat him in a fight, her being physically weaker is compensated by her skill, which allowed her to defeat Shao (it's also what Shang said about him). But since skill isn't obviously enough, I think there's ground to backscale her.

Again three times in one fight doesnt make it consistent at all and skill doesn’t need justify her jumping so high in terms of power

Sindel and Shao kinda made short work of them, while Kung Lao got defeated off screen but Shang is already superior to Sindel and Shao. For what we know White Revenant Kitana could be comparable to Alive Kitana, having filled the gap with her counterpart thanks to Kronika's power boost.

Shao was slashed by Kitana and Sindel was matched by Jade

They aren’t as strong as Shao, Sindel and Shang but they can still be scaled from them

Aren't we placing Kotal to "At least 9-A, likely High 8-C" without sun powers for the same reasons, though? Why couldn't Sheeva and Kitana have the same rating, considering that the latter did better against Shao than how Kotal did.

Someone suggested it but it’s whack for reasons I’ve discussed

Also no she did not; Kotal has three separate showings of harming Shao (cleaving his shoulder, beating him and hurting him with his bite) and a litany of feats such as the Boat bust from the Komics (which is referenced by Rain)

He has much more putting him in mid tier then Kitana does

Kitana uses bladed weapons, which are recurrently used as more impressive than in real life within fiction. Couldn't we just keep her own statistics lower than those of Shao Kahn, but scale the piercing damage of her sharp blades from him, as a separate statistic? We use something similar for Wolverine.

perhaps but it still feels like a one off; she uses her blades regularly and her fight with Shao is the one time she meaningfully harms a top tier

It’s closer to Cap harming Hulk then Wolverine harming people with claws

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do not think Kitana's blades are made of some "Insert bizarrely named fictional metal here", so I would just consider it a running gag of sharp object being portrayed as something that can cut people regardless of strength gaps despite being illogical.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Kabal could pierce Raiden in MKX in a cutscene, for example, it's rather common in Mortal Kombat

I agree with Hellbeast

 

[SamanPatou]

I believe I suggested Sindel having a separate key

The other two times she’s amped; she has Shang’s Souls in MK9 and is brought back using the Jinsei (which enhances Fire God Liu and Shinnok)

She should, but it was to give further evicences about the Revenants being weaker than their alive counterparts, so Alive Kitana is superior to Base Revenant Kitana, while White Revenant Kitana could have filled the gap, but we don't know.

Again three times in one fight doesnt make it consistent at all and skill doesn’t need justify her jumping so high in terms of power

It's three times in cutscenes and a clear victory in a fight, and taking out the losses of her Revenant, the others are just against Liu, Sindel and Sheeva. The first two don't really cancel out the possibility of her backscaling from Shao, and neither does the third, as MK11 Sheeva only lost to Sindel.

Shao was slashed by Kitana and Sindel was matched by Jade

They aren’t as strong as Shao, Sindel and Shang but they can still be scaled from them

I don't get why they can be backscaled safely to them and Alive Kitana couldn't honestly, as she performed better than them, and she only lost to Sheeva, Sindel and Liu. She also gets some consistent victory against low tiers, as in MK9 she beats Smoke and Johhny together, Jade, Mileena and Shang Tsung (who would be mid tier, right?), while in MK11 she beats Kollector and Skarlet.



I also disagree with considering her blades particularly strong, for what we know they are made of generic metal and aren't different from all other blades in the series.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

while White Revenant Kitana could have filled the gap, but we don't know.

She fills the gap (Equal to her alive self) and proceeds to be quickly defeated by Shao Kahn ? Also her feats against Fire God Liu Kang are still there, despite being 3 X 1

Also you are forgetting the context, she didn't just "lost" to Liu Kang, she lost to a completely casual and supressed Liu Kang, while him at full power has a hard time against Kahn, then Kitana is Shao Kahn level ? That doesn't sound right to me

the others are just against Liu, Sindel and Sheeva

If she's Shao Kahn level, Sindel and Liu Kang wouldn't destroy her like they did

Sheeva lost to Jax (Low Tier)

Sheeva lost to Jade (Low Tier)

And she only won against Low Tiers in MK11 aswell.

I understand that we could just say the Outlier is Sheeva and not Kahn, but all the scaling around Kitana says otherwise (Lost to a supressed Liu Kang, her White Revenant lost to Kahn, lost to Sheeva), that being the HUGE circular scaling that happens with High Tier Kitana. She can't be High 8-C with that single battle otherwise other Mid Tiers are aswell (Like I said before, some of them have good/better feats than Kitana, but aren't straight High 8-C for also having a clear difference to them plot wise and anti feats against Low Tiers) and, speaking of them, that would go to Low Tiers aswell (Sheeva defeated Kitana, Sonya defeated Scorpion, Kung Jin defeated Kotal, Cage defeated Sonya, Jax defeated Cage, Cage defeated Scorpion and Sub Zero, they defeated Raiden), that not only goes against all of our scaling being made here but also the game since it's portrays characters with different levels of power despite having one or other loss to someone weaker

Now, Alive Kitana being Mid Tier ? Maybe that could work, she has most of her feats with the Low Tiers while keeping a good record, and has a good one against Shao Kahn, that fits the description if you ask me, it's better to wait to see what @Ecstasy_Amphetamine and @Hellbeast think. While her Regular Revenant stays at Low Tier and White Revenant at whatever it is for now

 

[Antvasima]

So how about just giving her a "higher with sharp blades" extra mention in her striking strength and attack potency then? It isn't a very unusual practice for us in these types of situations.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Wow this is a lot. Can anyone summarize the arguments here? I tried reading them myself but even I don't know what you guys are talking about lol

 

[Antvasima]

Whether or not Kitana should get an extra statistics with her bladed weaponry, given that she beat Shao Kahn, but not otherwise physically scale from him.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Don't all bladed weapons do that? It's not impossible to chip off a piece of rock from a boulder or even a mountain. You could say that she's 9-A with or without her weapons. 9-A to High 8-C is a big gap, but we have a few feats of piercing weapons from low tiers somehow managing to harm characters much more durable than them.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but this is fiction, and we need to acknowledge this important story point without messing up the overall scaling.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Hmm, I wouldn't dare to add High 8-C ratings on a consistently low tier character, but "higher with war fans" on her striking strength and AP would be alright if that fixes the issue. But that would mean the same to other low tiers who use piercing weapons against people stronger than them, like Kabal vs Raiden and Kotal vs Shao.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I don't mind a "higher" for them aswell

 

[Hellbeast]

If we add a higher we’ll have to do the same for Kabal since he pierced Raiden

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

If we add a higher we’ll have to do the same for Kabal since he pierced Raiden

I'd argue that the Revenants were much stronger in that scene since Shinnok (their power source) was present, which may be the reason why Quan Chi could beat Raiden. The Revenants were still easily dealt with by the two gods though.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm okay with higher with her blades, but I would scale from god tiers.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I was thinking if it base Kitana's ratings should look like this:

Small Building level physically (blahblahblah) and with piercing weapons (Her war fans were able to slice through Shao Kahn)

 

[SamanPatou]

Also you are forgetting the context, she didn't just "lost" to Liu Kang, she lost to a completely casual and supressed Liu Kang, while him at full power has a hard time against Kahn, then Kitana is Shao Kahn level ? That doesn't sound right to me

She wouldn't be on Shao's level, but at a level high enough to let her not be completely stomped by him, that's why my idea was to backscale her.

Sheeva lost to Jax (Low Tier)

Sheeva lost to Jade (Low Tier)

And she only won against Low Tiers in MK11 aswell.

These aren't good examples, more than 25 years have passed between MK9 and MK11, Sheeva can perfectly have become stronger and more skilled, considering she went through a lot. I also wanted to suggest two key for her for this reason.

Now, Alive Kitana being Mid Tier ? Maybe that could work, she has most of her feats with the Low Tiers while keeping a good record, and has a good one against Shao Kahn, that fits the description if you ask me, it's better to wait to see what @Ecstasy_Amphetamine and @Hellbeast think. While her Regular Revenant stays at Low Tier and White Revenant at whatever it is for now

I can agree with this, she consistently shown to deserve that tier.

Hmm, I wouldn't dare to add High 8-C ratings on a consistently low tier character, but "higher with war fans" on her striking strength and AP would be alright if that fixes the issue. But that would mean the same to other low tiers who use piercing weapons against people stronger than them, like Kabal vs Raiden and Kotal vs Shao.

Except that Kitana isn't a consistently low tier character. If we take her Revenant out (as Revenants are notably weaker than their alive counterparts, givent the examples provided) , Kitana defeated Smoke, MK9 Johnny Cage (the two of the fought her together), MK9 Jade, MK9 Mileena, MK9 Young Shang Tsung, Kollektor, Skarlet and finally Shao Kahn. In turn she only lost to Sindel, Liu Kang (two top tiers) and MK11 Sheeva, who should be considered only for her achievements in MK11, given how much time has passed, which are victories against Kitana, Baraka, Erron Black, Jade, Kotal Kahn (although he was weakened) and finally a single loss against Sindel (top tier).


I'd give her whatever tier we give to mid tiers (I guess a high end of 9-A), then a higher/likely higher or what either with or without weapons.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Except that Kitana isn't a consistently low tier character. If we take her Revenant out (as Revenants are notably weaker than their alive counterparts, givent the examples provided) , Kitana defeated Smoke, MK9 Johnny Cage (the two of the fought her together), MK9 Jade, MK9 Mileena, MK9 Young Shang Tsung, Kollektor, Skarlet and finally Shao Kahn. In turn she only lost to Sindel, Liu Kang (two top tiers) and MK11 Sheeva, who should be considered only for her achievements in MK11, given how much time has passed, which are victories against Kitana, Baraka, Erron Black, Jade, Kotal Kahn (although he was weakened) and finally a single loss against Sindel (top tier).


I'd give her whatever tier we give to mid tiers (I guess a high end of 9-A), then a higher/likely higher or what either with or without weapons.

Now that I think about it, she does have less losses in her living form, but most of the wins are still not enough to grant her even Mid tier, let alone the losses she has against Sonya Blade and Smoke in MK9. I'd say alive Kitana might be at the high end of the low tiers given the amount of victories that she has against low tiers.

 

[Antvasima]

I was thinking if it base Kitana's ratings should look like this:

Small Building level physically (blahblahblah) and with piercing weapons (Her war fans were able to slice through Shao Kahn)

So is this an acceptable solution for the rest of you?