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People aren't going to like what I'm about to say in this thread. But I'm convinced wholeheartedly that this is something that needs to be handled, and I believe now is the time to do so.
Bear with me, because this is going to be long.
Sonya Blade
Jacqui Briggs
Kano
Sektor
Kotal Kahn
Cetrion
Bear with me, because this is going to be long.
| Contents |
Story
|
Gameplay and Story Segregation
|
Understanding Current Events
A.K.A. "Just like Raiden, someone messed up the timeline by trying to fix it"...
Whoever revised the pages after MK11 came out appears to have been under the impression that the 'past' characters (Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Kitana, Shao Kahn, etc.) were all taken by Kronika from the Original Timeline. I'm not sure that I understand what would lead someone to that conclusion, but it's wrong. Very wrong.
The context of the story clearly demonstrates that the 'past' characters snatched up by Kronika are taken from MK9 specifically, not from any part of the Original Timeline games. Evidence of this includes the following:
A.K.A. "Just like Raiden, someone messed up the timeline by trying to fix it"...
Whoever revised the pages after MK11 came out appears to have been under the impression that the 'past' characters (Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Kitana, Shao Kahn, etc.) were all taken by Kronika from the Original Timeline. I'm not sure that I understand what would lead someone to that conclusion, but it's wrong. Very wrong.
The context of the story clearly demonstrates that the 'past' characters snatched up by Kronika are taken from MK9 specifically, not from any part of the Original Timeline games. Evidence of this includes the following:
- Raiden explains that, moments before he and the others were transported to the present, Kung Lao had just defeated Shang Tsung and Quan Chi. This is a direct reference to this fight which happens in the MK9 story mode. Kung Lao defeating Shang Tsung and Quan Chi is something that never happens in the Original Timeline; Quan Chi was never present in any of the Mortal Kombat tournaments Kung Lao fought in during the events of the old games, and when he did team up with Shang Tsung in the OT, Kung Lao was killed soundly by the two of them alongside the rest of the MKDA main heroes sans Raiden.
- Raiden of the past references the visions of the future he's been receiving, which is a plot point that's exclusive to the Current Timeline.
- Kung Lao says he "learned his lesson" after fighting Scorpion in Shang Tsung's tournament. Referencing this fight from MK9, which also never happened in the OT.
- Revenant Jade references the fight between Sindel and numerous characters in MK9.
- Jax from the past references being locked up in Goro's Lair during the events of MK9.
- Kronika states that the existences of the present-day Liu Kang and Kung Lao are tied to their past selves, explaining that "if they die, their revenant selves will cease to exist". More or less confirms that their past and present selves are from the same timeline and not an alternate one.
- When past Johnny Cage has a bullet graze his face, present Johnny receives the same damage. Further proof that the characters' past selves are from the same timeline as their present ones.
There are other clear indications of this, but I believe the above should suffice as far as my point is concerned.
Honestly, there's no good reason for scaling the two timelines to each other anyway. MK9 is a very hard-reset of the verse in general, to the point that later installments make sweeping changes to the setting's overall history. This is a New 52-esque continuity reboot, and that's exactly how we should be treating it.
Good Things Never Last
The events of the MKX comics appear to have been retconned.
Yes, I am serious. The events detailed within the comic are no longer part of canon as of MK11. Apparently the story and voiceover director at NetherRealm has recently said outright that the comics aren't canon anymore, so if there were any doubts about that before, this should remove them now. In fact, with the way the MK11 story has been written, it's pretty clear that this is an intentional retcon and not just Ed Boon & friends forgetting things like they usually do.
Honestly, there's no good reason for scaling the two timelines to each other anyway. MK9 is a very hard-reset of the verse in general, to the point that later installments make sweeping changes to the setting's overall history. This is a New 52-esque continuity reboot, and that's exactly how we should be treating it.
Good Things Never Last
The events of the MKX comics appear to have been retconned.
Yes, I am serious. The events detailed within the comic are no longer part of canon as of MK11. Apparently the story and voiceover director at NetherRealm has recently said outright that the comics aren't canon anymore, so if there were any doubts about that before, this should remove them now. In fact, with the way the MK11 story has been written, it's pretty clear that this is an intentional retcon and not just Ed Boon & friends forgetting things like they usually do.
- The MKX comics portray Kotal as being one of Shao Kahn's closest generals, complete with a spying unit of his own. MK11 reveals that Shao Kahn betrayed him ages ago and held him as a prisoner for Shang Tsung's experiments, and that Kotal's freedom never came until Shao died.
- Erron Black in the MKX comics was Kotal and the Black Dragon's liaison in Outworld, with Kano at one point stating that he could never be a Black Dragon member. MK11 reveals that the years-younger Erron is a member of the Black Dragon in Earthrealm, and that such has been the case for a long time.
- The MKX comics have Skarlet learn Blood Magik from Havik offscreen after requesting that he teach it to her. In MK11, Skarlet learned Blood Magik from Shao Kahn.
- Havik dies in the MKX comics as a consequence of his schemes. MK11's Aftermath DLC reveals that Havik is very much still alive.
The only event that seems to have stayed intact is the fight between Kotal and Goro. And I don't have a good explanation for that, other than Ed Boon & co. not realizing how contradictory that is.
There are other retcons to MKX proper (Ex: Jax has "recently" been honorably discharged from the Special Forces at the beginning of MK11 even though MKX establishes that he's already been retired for 25 years), but these are the important ones, as they render feats and scaling from the comics null. All of the calcs we're using that are of feats from the comics need to be removed from the profiles, as those feats are no longer canon. Scaling from comic book fights also needs to be removed for the same reason.
Of course, there's another reason why some of those feats should be disregarded. That being...
Actions Speak Louder Than Statements
We need to have a talk about how high some of the Current Timeline characters are rated.
A lot of the characters in MK's Current Timeline are shown to have limitations far below what their current ratings are. These aren't one-off moments that can be handwaved; these are consistent showings that place a hard limit on what their capabilities are.
Ignoring the fact that some of these ratings come from comic feats anyway:
There are other retcons to MKX proper (Ex: Jax has "recently" been honorably discharged from the Special Forces at the beginning of MK11 even though MKX establishes that he's already been retired for 25 years), but these are the important ones, as they render feats and scaling from the comics null. All of the calcs we're using that are of feats from the comics need to be removed from the profiles, as those feats are no longer canon. Scaling from comic book fights also needs to be removed for the same reason.
Of course, there's another reason why some of those feats should be disregarded. That being...
Actions Speak Louder Than Statements
We need to have a talk about how high some of the Current Timeline characters are rated.
A lot of the characters in MK's Current Timeline are shown to have limitations far below what their current ratings are. These aren't one-off moments that can be handwaved; these are consistent showings that place a hard limit on what their capabilities are.
Ignoring the fact that some of these ratings come from comic feats anyway:
Sonya Blade
- In MKX, she is visibly and significantly injured by a helicopter crash.
- In MK11, she has a stone ceiling forcibly collapsed on top of her. This is what she looks like afterwards.
Jacqui Briggs
- Apparently this fall would have killed her.
- Her energy blasts can't hurt Ermac.
- Or Kotal Kahn. (We'll get to why this is important in a moment.)
- Hurt by falling out of a helicopter.
- Crippled by a bullet to the knee.
- The same gun would be enough to kill younger Johnny if Kano were to shoot him in the head with it.
- In MK9, unnamed Tarkatans are able to beat him down if he isn't careful. (As for why that's important...)
Kano
Sektor
Kotal Kahn
- He's City level, and he can't break out of a prison transport carriage?
- ...Or a literal chopping block? (We can probably ignore this one, but it's here anyway to demonstrate a point)
- A stone tower falling on him weakens him during his first fight with Shao Kahn, despite taking no crippling hits from the latter and still being able to move.
- Gets impaled by a forklift of all things, then gets blown to bits by two grenades.
- Apparently he can't break these giant chains.
Cetrion
- She's Low 6-B normally, but she has trouble maintaining a bridge made of earth elements? (This also isn't Lifting Strength like the profile would have you believe; it's her creating a structure and then maintaining it with severe effort on her part.)
Compare all of the above to shit like Fire God Liu Kang nuking armies and melting/blowing up every barricade that looks at him funny, all of which are treated as absurdly impressive within the context of the setting. (As they rightly should be, since they are far and away the largest direct displays of power we see in any Current Timeline story mode.)
And please, let's not try to write this off with "this is PIS" or "the guns/bombs/missiles/tanks/chains/Koliseum door/prison cell is clearly stronger than a normal one", because neither of those arguments follow.
Restricting a God?
This concerns the Original Timeline more than it does the Current Timeline, but while I would like to save the bulk of revisions regarding the OT for later, this is something that needs to be addressed now.
We are currently assuming that every demigod character has a "restricted" and "unrestricted" form, based on some basic...stuff. Actually, a lot of that interpretation seems to be made from cobbled-together bits of info from both continuities. After looking into it very deeply, I've come to the conclusion that it's bullshit. Here's why.
The series repeatedly states that Shao Kahn is limited by the rules of the Mortal Kombat tournament. Between that, a brief statement in Raiden's MK3 ending which says he has to take a mortal form in order to fight, and another brief statement (which I can't find as of this writing) which states Shao Kahn and Raiden are the same type of being, people have somehow come to the conclusion that these rules forcibly limit Shao Kahn and Raiden's power in order for them to participate. Or something.
Problem is, the rules and restrictions of Mortal Kombat have nothing to do with a being's innate power or how much of it they're allowed to use at a given point. The rules of Mortal Kombat exist to prevent unchecked mergers, in order to preserve the balance of the realms. MK9 explicitly notes that the Elder Gods and their rules of Mortal Kombat do not protect a realm from direct harm or invasion, and that the only reason Kahn can't just sack the place is because Sindel set some sort of protection around Earthrealm when she died. In the Current Timeline, that is how Shao Kahn is limited. He can't merge the realms without winning the tournament, and he can't invade the place because of Sindel's ward. Once the latter is gone, his forces tear the place a new one and he more or less gets to do whatever he wants until he tries actually merging the realms like an idiot.
"But without the rules of Mortal Kombat in place, Shao Kahn took an attack from the Elder Gods."
Ah yes, the Current Timeline feat that makes the least amount of sense.
This is what Shao Kahn looks like after fighting Elder-God-empowered Raiden. This does not at all imply that he's on their level the way the above-mentioned showing does; Raiden is completely uninjured, while Shao Kahn is beaten, broken, bruised, battered, short of breath and barely able to stand or lift his hammer. In a direct comparison of "Shao Kahn VS the Elder Gods", there is no parity here whatsoever. Shao Kahn is clearly the inferior one, by a long shot.
Why was he able to laugh off an attack from the Elder Gods moments beforehand? There's no telling, honestly. But what I can say is that he repeatedly fails to replicate that kind of durability at any point before or after the fight between himself and an empowered Raiden. And that is important, because MK9 is the last Mortal Kombat tournament to take place in the current timeline. None of the subsequent games have any Mortal Kombat tournaments taking place, yet Shao Kahn never shows himself to be any more powerful than he was during the in-universe tournaments. Hell, none of the demigods or Elder Gods show themselves to be overwhelmingly stronger in spite of this fact.
Nevermind the fact that Shinnok (who shouldn't be restricted by these rules at all; the Elder Gods' limitations don't mean anything to the Elder Gods themselves) needed the power of the Jinsei throughout MKX in order to even attempt to lifewipe the planet when, if he's anywhere near as powerful as he is currently rated, he should be capable of doing that on his lonesome.
Also, the "unrestricted" ratings themselves come from Original Timeline showings, most notably one that comes from an old UMK3 ending. My gripes with that showing (There's a good chance that "until the very core of the Earth was shaken" is just hyperbole) and the above-mentioned reasoning for not mixing the timelines aside, this seems like a perfect place to transition into...
Why Character Endings Shouldn't Be Used
Let's be honest; if a character ending isn't canon, it's probably overexaggerated in some way, shape or form. More times than not, the Arcade endings are meant to serve as big 'Y'done good, son' rewards for players who've managed to beat the game's boss, with many of them clearly conflicting with what actually happens in the events of each game. Some examples from the Original Timeline include Sonya beating Shao Kahn 1-on-1 even though later games have her getting demolished by much weaker enemies, and Kung Lao beating the hell out of Shang Tsung by himself even when Deception later establishes that Tsung and Quan Chi were too strong for all of the heroes to defeat while said heroes were working together. The Current Timeline gets in on this too, with Liu Kang's MK9 ending having him beat Raiden in a straight fight even though A. the MK9 story has the latter killing him by accidentally using too much of his power and B. MK11 later reveals that he's fated to battle Raiden and lose. And that's saying nothing in regards to MK11's Arcade Mode allowing everyone on the roster to beat Kronika when people like Jax and Jacqui need an amp to beat the decidedly weaker Cetrion in the game's Story mode.
A lot of people seem to go with the interpretation that these endings are just alternate possibilities. I don't personally agree with that interpretation when they contradict the stories themselves and the established limits of each character, but even if you do run with that interpretation, having one or two notable showings featured in character endings means nothing when compared to about a dozen inferior showings in the story that set the characters' limits much lower.
Why Fatalities and Other Such Things Shouldn't Be Used
Another big part of our problem comes from the fact that we're using MK fatalities for ratings right now.
The Fatalities are, put simply, exaggerations of what each character is capable of. Some of them are replicated in stories, cutscenes, et cetera, but most are highly contradicted by what we see the characters actually do. With the current timeline, you can see as much based on the many showings outlined elsewhere on this thread, especially in regards to higher-rated characters.
Even if you choose to ignore everything else that was outlined above regarding just how frequently the MK cast are portrayed they way they are, there's also the fact that these game animations aren't even consistent with themselves. This doesn't kill, but this does? Someone who can survive this can't survive this? Someone who lives through this gets killed by this? This shit doesn't kill you, but this does?
You can try to alleviate this by disregarding the latter showings, but at that point you're just cherrypicking.
So What Do We Do?
We need to work with what's consistently portrayed within the confines of the games' stories, not the nonsensically high-end feats and interpretations we've been running with for so long. It's clear from analyzing the three most recent games in the series that the Current Timeline treats its characters as being much weaker than what we've been giving them credit for, and the few legitimate higher-tier feats we have are non-canon, outliers contradicted by more consistent limits shown, or both.
We also need to separate the Current Timeline from the Original Timeline. It makes zero sense that we're cross-scaling the two.
I'm open to using whatever calcs we can from the three Current Timeline story modes. I believe Test Your Might is also something we can use since, while it is a minigame, modern iterations of it don't actually stray that far from how the Story Modes portray most of the characters.
Other than that, stupid and impossible-to-scale things things like the many player-driven Story Mode fights can be ignored, per usual. Frankly, the actual scaling of the series thus far (barring that which comes from comic book fights and cross-timeline shit) seems fine from what I can see. It's just the ratings that need changing.
P.S.: Part II will deal with the Original Timeline, so let's keep irrelevant discussion of that to a minimum, please.
And please, let's not try to write this off with "this is PIS" or "the guns/bombs/missiles/tanks/chains/Koliseum door/prison cell is clearly stronger than a normal one", because neither of those arguments follow.
Restricting a God?
This concerns the Original Timeline more than it does the Current Timeline, but while I would like to save the bulk of revisions regarding the OT for later, this is something that needs to be addressed now.
We are currently assuming that every demigod character has a "restricted" and "unrestricted" form, based on some basic...stuff. Actually, a lot of that interpretation seems to be made from cobbled-together bits of info from both continuities. After looking into it very deeply, I've come to the conclusion that it's bullshit. Here's why.
The series repeatedly states that Shao Kahn is limited by the rules of the Mortal Kombat tournament. Between that, a brief statement in Raiden's MK3 ending which says he has to take a mortal form in order to fight, and another brief statement (which I can't find as of this writing) which states Shao Kahn and Raiden are the same type of being, people have somehow come to the conclusion that these rules forcibly limit Shao Kahn and Raiden's power in order for them to participate. Or something.
Problem is, the rules and restrictions of Mortal Kombat have nothing to do with a being's innate power or how much of it they're allowed to use at a given point. The rules of Mortal Kombat exist to prevent unchecked mergers, in order to preserve the balance of the realms. MK9 explicitly notes that the Elder Gods and their rules of Mortal Kombat do not protect a realm from direct harm or invasion, and that the only reason Kahn can't just sack the place is because Sindel set some sort of protection around Earthrealm when she died. In the Current Timeline, that is how Shao Kahn is limited. He can't merge the realms without winning the tournament, and he can't invade the place because of Sindel's ward. Once the latter is gone, his forces tear the place a new one and he more or less gets to do whatever he wants until he tries actually merging the realms like an idiot.
"But without the rules of Mortal Kombat in place, Shao Kahn took an attack from the Elder Gods."
Ah yes, the Current Timeline feat that makes the least amount of sense.
This is what Shao Kahn looks like after fighting Elder-God-empowered Raiden. This does not at all imply that he's on their level the way the above-mentioned showing does; Raiden is completely uninjured, while Shao Kahn is beaten, broken, bruised, battered, short of breath and barely able to stand or lift his hammer. In a direct comparison of "Shao Kahn VS the Elder Gods", there is no parity here whatsoever. Shao Kahn is clearly the inferior one, by a long shot.
Why was he able to laugh off an attack from the Elder Gods moments beforehand? There's no telling, honestly. But what I can say is that he repeatedly fails to replicate that kind of durability at any point before or after the fight between himself and an empowered Raiden. And that is important, because MK9 is the last Mortal Kombat tournament to take place in the current timeline. None of the subsequent games have any Mortal Kombat tournaments taking place, yet Shao Kahn never shows himself to be any more powerful than he was during the in-universe tournaments. Hell, none of the demigods or Elder Gods show themselves to be overwhelmingly stronger in spite of this fact.
Nevermind the fact that Shinnok (who shouldn't be restricted by these rules at all; the Elder Gods' limitations don't mean anything to the Elder Gods themselves) needed the power of the Jinsei throughout MKX in order to even attempt to lifewipe the planet when, if he's anywhere near as powerful as he is currently rated, he should be capable of doing that on his lonesome.
Also, the "unrestricted" ratings themselves come from Original Timeline showings, most notably one that comes from an old UMK3 ending. My gripes with that showing (There's a good chance that "until the very core of the Earth was shaken" is just hyperbole) and the above-mentioned reasoning for not mixing the timelines aside, this seems like a perfect place to transition into...
Why Character Endings Shouldn't Be Used
Let's be honest; if a character ending isn't canon, it's probably overexaggerated in some way, shape or form. More times than not, the Arcade endings are meant to serve as big 'Y'done good, son' rewards for players who've managed to beat the game's boss, with many of them clearly conflicting with what actually happens in the events of each game. Some examples from the Original Timeline include Sonya beating Shao Kahn 1-on-1 even though later games have her getting demolished by much weaker enemies, and Kung Lao beating the hell out of Shang Tsung by himself even when Deception later establishes that Tsung and Quan Chi were too strong for all of the heroes to defeat while said heroes were working together. The Current Timeline gets in on this too, with Liu Kang's MK9 ending having him beat Raiden in a straight fight even though A. the MK9 story has the latter killing him by accidentally using too much of his power and B. MK11 later reveals that he's fated to battle Raiden and lose. And that's saying nothing in regards to MK11's Arcade Mode allowing everyone on the roster to beat Kronika when people like Jax and Jacqui need an amp to beat the decidedly weaker Cetrion in the game's Story mode.
A lot of people seem to go with the interpretation that these endings are just alternate possibilities. I don't personally agree with that interpretation when they contradict the stories themselves and the established limits of each character, but even if you do run with that interpretation, having one or two notable showings featured in character endings means nothing when compared to about a dozen inferior showings in the story that set the characters' limits much lower.
Why Fatalities and Other Such Things Shouldn't Be Used
Another big part of our problem comes from the fact that we're using MK fatalities for ratings right now.
The Fatalities are, put simply, exaggerations of what each character is capable of. Some of them are replicated in stories, cutscenes, et cetera, but most are highly contradicted by what we see the characters actually do. With the current timeline, you can see as much based on the many showings outlined elsewhere on this thread, especially in regards to higher-rated characters.
Even if you choose to ignore everything else that was outlined above regarding just how frequently the MK cast are portrayed they way they are, there's also the fact that these game animations aren't even consistent with themselves. This doesn't kill, but this does? Someone who can survive this can't survive this? Someone who lives through this gets killed by this? This shit doesn't kill you, but this does?
You can try to alleviate this by disregarding the latter showings, but at that point you're just cherrypicking.
So What Do We Do?
We need to work with what's consistently portrayed within the confines of the games' stories, not the nonsensically high-end feats and interpretations we've been running with for so long. It's clear from analyzing the three most recent games in the series that the Current Timeline treats its characters as being much weaker than what we've been giving them credit for, and the few legitimate higher-tier feats we have are non-canon, outliers contradicted by more consistent limits shown, or both.
We also need to separate the Current Timeline from the Original Timeline. It makes zero sense that we're cross-scaling the two.
I'm open to using whatever calcs we can from the three Current Timeline story modes. I believe Test Your Might is also something we can use since, while it is a minigame, modern iterations of it don't actually stray that far from how the Story Modes portray most of the characters.
Other than that, stupid and impossible-to-scale things things like the many player-driven Story Mode fights can be ignored, per usual. Frankly, the actual scaling of the series thus far (barring that which comes from comic book fights and cross-timeline shit) seems fine from what I can see. It's just the ratings that need changing.
P.S.: Part II will deal with the Original Timeline, so let's keep irrelevant discussion of that to a minimum, please.
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