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Me, Hellbeast, and DDK agree with 8-B God Liu. However I think him and the god tier should be baseline 8-B only without the 10 tons High 8-C feat. I think he should be "At least 8-B, likely far higher".
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Major Mortal Kombat Revision, Part I
- Thread starter MrKingOfNegativity
- Start date
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- Tags
- mortal kombat
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I'm fine with Revenant Liu being weaker than his human form.
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Guess we all agreed then, I'll keep doing the changes if it's okay
Hellbeast
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But yeah mostly seems dope
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Just to be sure so no one gets confused
Stuff that is agreed on
Not clear yet
Stuff that is agreed on
- High tier Liu Kang (alive) and Mid tier Revenant Liu
- At least 8-B, likely higher God tiers
Not clear yet
- Mid tier Kung Lao? (I'm not leaning on agreeing with this, but I need other people's input)
- Mid tier Kotal Kahn? (leaning on agreeing with this)
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That is probably fine. Thanks for helping out.
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I fully believe MK11 Kotal Kahn deserves Mid Tier, his only anti feat is against Jade and it's easy to say he didn't went all out against her since, well, he loves her
Against Sheeva he was completely nerfed
Kung Lao I think he should just be Low Tier
Hellbeast
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Plus didn’t he get injured by Dvorah before this or am I misremembering
Yeah dude being barely able to walk and yet still fighting Sheeva is a feat for him, not the other way around
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He didn't really have any notable injuries in that fight besides D'Vorah puking maggots into his mouth, plus the timeframe between those two events is quite long. He might've recovered from that fight and was able to rejoin his army and Jade.
Seems good
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So, with the 8-B stuff accepted, who should scale ?
We agreed thanks to Fire God Liu Kang being the fusion of Raiden (High 8-C+) + Liu Kang (High 8-C+) + Revenant Liu Kang (9-A, likely High 8-C+), which means, even without the Jin Sei, he is 8-B since it comes from his very first form
However, that would mean The White Revenants scale, then Shao Kahn scales then...Alive Regular Liu Kang scales (Since this Liu kang defeated Shao Kahn) ? That's the problem, it becomes circular scaling
In my opinion, we should hold this 8-B scaling to only Liu Kang, Kronika and Shang Tsung, the white revenants fight was in canon a 3 vs 1 battle and Cetrion lost to Liu Kang and even had problems with Fujin for example (who's just High 8-C+), I don't think we should really scale them to Liu Kang, Cetrion can remain at At least High 8-C+ (Just like her brother Shinnok), and the revenants I dunno, but being clowned by Shao Kahn in cutscene doesn't really shows them being that strong
If we scale Cetrion to 8-B, Shinnok would scale (I guess, unless his "fallen" state makes him weaker), which means 8-B Cages which doesn't seem accurate for me at all (One Green Power Cage being comparable to Fire God Liu Kang ?)
We agreed thanks to Fire God Liu Kang being the fusion of Raiden (High 8-C+) + Liu Kang (High 8-C+) + Revenant Liu Kang (9-A, likely High 8-C+), which means, even without the Jin Sei, he is 8-B since it comes from his very first form
However, that would mean The White Revenants scale, then Shao Kahn scales then...Alive Regular Liu Kang scales (Since this Liu kang defeated Shao Kahn) ? That's the problem, it becomes circular scaling
In my opinion, we should hold this 8-B scaling to only Liu Kang, Kronika and Shang Tsung, the white revenants fight was in canon a 3 vs 1 battle and Cetrion lost to Liu Kang and even had problems with Fujin for example (who's just High 8-C+), I don't think we should really scale them to Liu Kang, Cetrion can remain at At least High 8-C+ (Just like her brother Shinnok), and the revenants I dunno, but being clowned by Shao Kahn in cutscene doesn't really shows them being that strong
If we scale Cetrion to 8-B, Shinnok would scale (I guess, unless his "fallen" state makes him weaker), which means 8-B Cages which doesn't seem accurate for me at all (One Green Power Cage being comparable to Fire God Liu Kang ?)
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8-B scales to the absolute god tiers only. The ones I had in mind were God Liu, KoT Shang, and Kronika. Just so you know, they're 8-B because Liu Kang's gate shattering feat is 10 tons which is 1 ton away from being baseline 8-B, not to mention that God Liu should be more powerful than busting gates which was very casual for him.
The rest hat you mentioned only scale to the 6 tons feat of Raiden and Cetrion
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Oh okay, I thought we were going to scale basically everyone who fought Liu Kang to 8-B
It's good to see 2 reasons for their 8-B rating then
It's good to see 2 reasons for their 8-B rating then
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I noticed that you updated Revenant Liu Kang's move speed to At least Peak Human. You should revert that back to PH only because so far there isn't much feats in MK that involve movement speed, save for Kabal using his powers, Sub-Zero dodging an explosion with his Slide move and Raiden's X-Ray in MKX. Although I do recall Revenant Liu Kang jumping high and fast enough to get on the boat that Raiden and co. were in during MK11.
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Oh yeah, I also saw your edit on Sektor. He should probably have one tier only (which is 9-A) since his upgrades didn't do much in terms of feats. Even as a cyborg, he still loses to the same people on his level. Same goes for Cyrax.
I'll also be removing some stuff that came from the Midway timeline as well
I'll also be removing some stuff that came from the Midway timeline as well
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The "At least" on Liu Kang's speed was a mistake, yeah
About Sektor, he had multiple tiers so I didn't quite knew what to do, I wouldn't be against a "At least" for his MK11 since he certainly had an upgrade (Even stated by Hanzo/Kuai Liang)
About Sektor, he had multiple tiers so I didn't quite knew what to do, I wouldn't be against a "At least" for his MK11 since he certainly had an upgrade (Even stated by Hanzo/Kuai Liang)
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I'll address that tomorrow. For now just keep it as it is
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I think Sektor and Cyrax are the only NRS low tiers to have tiers in terms of physical stats. We should remove these tiers but keep the tabbers that separate their human and cyborg abilities. For example, Sektor should be 9-A only, but he still has the tabber that separates his Human-Cyborg-White Sektor abilities.
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Btw shouldn't Kotal be Mid tier overall rather than being mid tier in MK11 only? We did agree that he was quite powerful in MKX when he no sold Jacqui's energy blasts and easily broke out of Rain's water magic.
Also, I looked through Noob's profile and I thought he was supposed to be a mid tier (him fighting Fujin in the Temple of the Elements is still canon) and we should probably change the name of his profile to Bi-Han rather than Noob Saibot. Same goes for Sub-Zero who should be Kuai Liang.
Also, I looked through Noob's profile and I thought he was supposed to be a mid tier (him fighting Fujin in the Temple of the Elements is still canon) and we should probably change the name of his profile to Bi-Han rather than Noob Saibot. Same goes for Sub-Zero who should be Kuai Liang.
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We also agreed that he has anti feats in MKX (Kano and Kung Jin, for example), his only Mid Tiers feats are in MK11 and we know there is a time gap between the games, the safe route is leaving him with two different tiers
About Noob, yeah, his Mythologies key is safe High 8-C
About Noob, yeah, his Mythologies key is safe High 8-C
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Okay about Kotal
Mythologies as a game isn't canon to the NRS storyline. NRS games have their own version of Mythologies' story since different events happened in that timeline, like Fujin claiming that Noob ran away from Fujin. There was a fight before that, but we don't if Noob or Fujin had the upper hand (they seem to fight equally in a scene from Aftermath) and it's likely that they might've retconned Fujin's death via his own powers.
Mythologies as a game isn't canon to the NRS storyline. NRS games have their own version of Mythologies' story since different events happened in that timeline, like Fujin claiming that Noob ran away from Fujin. There was a fight before that, but we don't if Noob or Fujin had the upper hand (they seem to fight equally in a scene from Aftermath) and it's likely that they might've retconned Fujin's death via his own powers.
Hellbeast
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Yeah that’s my suggestion
I feel odd with that; he’s forced to retreat from Shinnok and the fight with Fujin wasn’t exactly intense
and we should probably change the name of his profile to Bi-Han rather than Noob Saibot. Same goes for Sub-Zero who should be Kuai Liang.
I disagree; Noob is the name Bi Han is most prominently known by in the series and Sub-Zero could just be “Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang - NetherRealm Timeline”
We could use Sub-Zero (Bi Han) to help refer to the 2021 and Legends characters tho
Also y’all hear about the new movie
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Shinnok > Fujin. Again, Midway's Mythologies isn't canon like we agreed with. Also I don't really get what you mean by intensity of the fight, Fujin was nearly killed or banished during that one. None of his moves against him were casual and they were both putting some effort on beating each other up.
Speaking of names, was Sub-Zero's true name ever revealed in the Midway games? I might've forgot.
And yes, I've heard about the animated movie. Unless you're talking about another MK movie I haven't heard of.
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It seems that we're discussing about Noob's tier
There's a difference between DDK and Hellbeast's interpretations on what Kotal's tiers should be. After looking through MKX, I remember him taking a hit from the amulet but being injured rather than outright disintegrated by it. Although I'm not sure if the power level depends on its wielder, which was Mileena in this case.
There's a difference between DDK and Hellbeast's interpretations on what Kotal's tiers should be. After looking through MKX, I remember him taking a hit from the amulet but being injured rather than outright disintegrated by it. Although I'm not sure if the power level depends on its wielder, which was Mileena in this case.
Hellbeast
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I believe Bi Han was said in Deadly Alliance
And yes, I've heard about the animated movie. Unless you're talking about another MK movie I haven't heard of.
Yep Battle of the Realms
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How about Kuai Liang? Was that mentioned too?
Also about the movie, I think you can take that to the gen discussion thread if you can find it.
Also about the movie, I think you can take that to the gen discussion thread if you can find it.
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Hellbeast
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He definitely does survive a blow from the Anulet and I’m unsure if the Amulet is weaker based on the wielder; it’s never mentioned to have that property to my knowledge and we see it being mentioned as wiping out whole legions by Li Mei (I’ll try to find the scene)
So it’s definitely evidence Kotal can compete with top tiers, even if he’s not as strong as them.
Hopefully we can wrap this up lmao
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No need to find that scene, I know what you're talking about.
As for Kotal, it seems you and me are in agreement with Mid tier Kotal overall. However, what say you about his anti feats? Outside of gameplay decided matches of course.
Also, before we wrap this up, we still have Noob's problem of being a low/mid tier and Cyber Lin Kuei only needing one key in terms of physical stats. I think we are still in the middle of discussing the former but what do you think about the latter idea?
As for Kotal, it seems you and me are in agreement with Mid tier Kotal overall. However, what say you about his anti feats? Outside of gameplay decided matches of course.
Also, before we wrap this up, we still have Noob's problem of being a low/mid tier and Cyber Lin Kuei only needing one key in terms of physical stats. I think we are still in the middle of discussing the former but what do you think about the latter idea?
Hellbeast
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Ah, a man of culture
We could probably put that under his 9-A showings but I’d mostly say they’re PIS (his problems is mostly the gameplay decided fights)
Stuff like the wooden blocks shouldn’t be a problem even if he’s just a basic bitch 9-A and he just regularly has showings above that.
Noob I’m fine with being a mid tier (after Kronika enhanced him of course) for the following
- fought Scorpion or Sub-Zero
- Fought Fujin in Aftermath
but I’m torn on Bisexual Han Solo
On one hand he is relative to Scorpion thanks to the two or three fights they share in the Old Timeline and the one they have in the new one (imo Mytholgies should count to both but that’s neither here nor there) but then has showings against Fujin. I can’t recall if he used an artefact here but if so he could scale
If not I feel torn; it’s way out there compared to struggling with Sareena and Hanzo and he nevertheless has that level of power again until he becomes Noob (in the old time when he beats Sub and In the new with MK11)
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Okay on Kotal
Ah yeah, I remember Noob saying that Kronika strengthened him when he first appeared. What are you trying to say about Bi-Han?
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Just so you don't keep coming back here, you don't have to constantly check on us. I assure you we're almost done here, just a few characters have some problems.
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I don't really see Noob at Mid Tier, he lost to Jax or Jacqui (Which is a big meh), and has no victories against Mid Tiers, he should be just 9-A
His Mythologies key should be Mid Tier I guess, we can't say everything from the game is canon, but he did had a fight with Fujin with apparently no winner/he ran away/he won like he said, which fits the description of said Tier for me
His Mythologies key should be Mid Tier I guess, we can't say everything from the game is canon, but he did had a fight with Fujin with apparently no winner/he ran away/he won like he said, which fits the description of said Tier for me
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Despite his fights against Fujin in the NRS timeline, should we put him with the low tiers instead? But we could add "possibly higher" since he actually has feats and statements going up against Fujin, but they are not consistent enough to be added yet they aren't considered outliers.
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