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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1
- Thread starter PowerToScale
- Start date
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seems we had the same thing in mind LOL
2 times Itadori's height is ridiculous.
Honestly, it seems that people want the verse not to have a higher tier. Holy shit, every little thing turns into a mess
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It’s mostly VF there are a couple large pieces tho
Could you not get the height from Todo to them?
Also here just blatant evidence that it was more likely vf since there's smaller pieces of rock
But most can fit in that super shallow water Yuji and Mahito fought on
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Per the article, 0.013 is a high-end, which is believed to be influenced by the participants getting more experience reacting to progressively faster images, and getting feedback on their performance. It can be significantly lower in casual and normal circumstances.
If Todo has 0.01 seconds to react, this means that the projectiles almost touching him, and he couldn't dodge when they were further away, are Subsonic.
Also, the 1/24 s gives us low showings and anti-feats. This does not mean that there are zero better speed feats, but it demonstrates there are plenty of low showings and anti-feats.
What you mentioned is not neccessarily a contradiction as he gets blitzed by movement that happens within 0.04 s, and it is possible to get out of view in less time than 0.04 s.
Yes, they involve normal humans, which is why I said "Peak Human" (maximum limit for real world humans), and not "Superhuman".
You should read the articles you link more thoroughly before arguing about them.
| Potter believes one reason for the subjects’ better performance in this study may be that they were able to practice fast detection as the images were presented progressively faster, even though each image was unfamiliar. The subjects also received feedback on their performance after each trial, allowing them to adapt to this incredibly fast presentation. At the highest rate, subjects were seeing new images more than 20 times as fast as vision typically absorbs information. |
Not any bigger than your headcanon. Which one is the high-end and which one is the low-end?
i agree that the decision was done in 0.01 s. Is Aoi false memories relevant to his reaction speed? Doesn't seem to be the case for me.
The frames are zooming out, not doing a rotational movement from the floor. So we are seeing the building + the bright green of the kicked-up dust at the top.The first frame only shows the floor
Didn't think about converting cinematic time to real time. Nonetheless both of us are wrong in this point since the timeframe is similar. The point of dispute remains: the distance Yuji moved before the claw can finish attacking.
Meteor ablate due to heat. So the meteor would take damage simply by being set on fire via. pyrokinesis.
No matter how we spin,
This is not 10000 m.
The technique creates lots of anti-feats. It is as simple as that.
1/24 is 0.04167 actually.
Again, not saying that better speed feats can't exist, but the technique by its very nature and design creates lots and lots of anti-feats, and it is considered top-tier speed.
Actually we do.
Show me Naoya moving 500 m 1200 m in one frame, then we'll discuss these hypotheticals. From what we see they are moving a handful of meters per frame.
Yes each movement is completed in exactly 1/24 s.
There is a limit to the acceleration the technique allows, so he will have to gradually increase his speed by gradually increasing the distance he is moving. Notice that he needs to follow the rules of trajectory, so he can't run circles around a frame; he needs to roughly run straight to it.
From the narration we know that he didn't surpass it before going for maximum speed, and that merely surpassing subsonic speed is dangerous for Maki. If you have evidence from the narration that he massively surpassed subsonic speed, provide it.
Small relatively to what is claimed. What is claimed is that the crater is ~40 m deep. Or around 23 times the height of Yuji.
Hollow as in they broke the ceiling of an underground sewer canal/tunnel. There are thin debris with smooth surfaces on both sides.
- If they are stairs then the area was mostly hollow.
- Mahito is basicly touching the wall. Why not scale his height to the height of the wall? The wall certainly doesn't look ~40 m tall.
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Dude if they are stairs that debunks it being any two time yuji's height.Per the article, 0.013 is a high-end, which is believed to be influenced by the participants getting more experience reacting to progressively faster images, and getting feedback on their performance. It can be significantly lower in casual and normal circumstances.
If Todo has 0.01 seconds to react, this means that the projectiles almost touching him, and he couldn't dodge when they were further away, are Subsonic.
Also, the 1/24 s gives us low showings and anti-feats. This does not mean that there are zero better speed feats, but it demonstrates there are plenty of low showings and anti-feats.
What you mentioned is not neccessarily a contradiction as he gets blitzed by movement that happens within 0.04 s, and it is possible to get out of view in less time than 0.04 s.
Yes, they involve normal humans, which is why I said "Peak Human" (maximum limit for real world humans), and not "Superhuman".
You should read the articles you link more thoroughly before arguing about them.
Potter believes one reason for the subjects’ better performance in this study may be that they were able to practice fast detection as the images were presented progressively faster, even though each image was unfamiliar. The subjects also received feedback on their performance after each trial, allowing them to adapt to this incredibly fast presentation. At the highest rate, subjects were seeing new images more than 20 times as fast as vision typically absorbs information.
Not any bigger than your headcanon. Which one is the high-end and which one is the low-end?
i agree that the decision was done in 0.01 s. Is Aoi false memories relevant to his reaction speed? Doesn't seem to be the case for me.
The frames are zooming out, not doing a rotational movement from the floor. So we are seeing the building + the bright green of the kicked-up dust at the top.
Didn't think about converting cinematic time to real time. Nonetheless both of us are wrong in this point since the timeframe is similar. The point of dispute remains: the distance Yuji moved before the claw can finish attacking.
Meteor ablate due to heat. So the meteor would take damage simply by being set on fire via. pyrokinesis.
No matter how we spin,
This is not 10000 m.
The technique creates lots of anti-feats. It is as simple as that.
1/24 is 0.04167 actually.
Again, not saying that better speed feats can't exist, but the technique by its very nature and design creates lots and lots of anti-feats, and it is considered top-tier speed.
Actually we do.
Show me Naoya moving 500 m 1200 m in one frame, then we'll discuss these hypotheticals. From what we see they are moving a handful of meters per frame.
Yes each movement is completed in exactly 1/24 s.
There is a limit to the acceleration the technique allows, so he will have to gradually increase his speed by gradually increasing the distance he is moving. Notice that he needs to follow the rules of trajectory, so he can't run circles around a frame; he needs to roughly run straight to it.
From the narration we know that he didn't surpass it before going for maximum speed, and that merely surpassing subsonic speed is dangerous for Maki. If you have evidence from the narration that he massively surpassed subsonic speed, provide it.
Small relatively to what is claimed. What is claimed is that the crater is ~40 m deep. Or around 23 times the height of Yuji.
Hollow as in they broke the ceiling of an underground sewer canal/tunnel. There are thin debris with smooth surfaces on both sides.
- If they are stairs then the area was mostly hollow.
- Mahito is basicly touching the wall. Why not scale his height to the height of the wall? The wall certainly doesn't look ~40 m tall.
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Holy shit, I completely forgot about thisPer the article, 0.013 is a high-end, which is believed to be influenced by the participants getting more experience reacting to progressively faster images, and getting feedback on their performance. It can be significantly lower in casual and normal circumstances.
If Todo has 0.01 seconds to react, this means that the projectiles almost touching him, and he couldn't dodge when they were further away, are Subsonic.
Also, the 1/24 s gives us low showings and anti-feats. This does not mean that there are zero better speed feats, but it demonstrates there are plenty of low showings and anti-feats.
What you mentioned is not neccessarily a contradiction as he gets blitzed by movement that happens within 0.04 s, and it is possible to get out of view in less time than 0.04 s.
Yes, they involve normal humans, which is why I said "Peak Human" (maximum limit for real world humans), and not "Superhuman".
You should read the articles you link more thoroughly before arguing about them.
Potter believes one reason for the subjects’ better performance in this study may be that they were able to practice fast detection as the images were presented progressively faster, even though each image was unfamiliar. The subjects also received feedback on their performance after each trial, allowing them to adapt to this incredibly fast presentation. At the highest rate, subjects were seeing new images more than 20 times as fast as vision typically absorbs information.
Not any bigger than your headcanon. Which one is the high-end and which one is the low-end?
i agree that the decision was done in 0.01 s. Is Aoi false memories relevant to his reaction speed? Doesn't seem to be the case for me.
The frames are zooming out, not doing a rotational movement from the floor. So we are seeing the building + the bright green of the kicked-up dust at the top.
Didn't think about converting cinematic time to real time. Nonetheless both of us are wrong in this point since the timeframe is similar. The point of dispute remains: the distance Yuji moved before the claw can finish attacking.
Meteor ablate due to heat. So the meteor would take damage simply by being set on fire via. pyrokinesis.
No matter how we spin,
This is not 10000 m.
The technique creates lots of anti-feats. It is as simple as that.
1/24 is 0.04167 actually.
Again, not saying that better speed feats can't exist, but the technique by its very nature and design creates lots and lots of anti-feats, and it is considered top-tier speed.
Actually we do.
Show me Naoya moving 500 m 1200 m in one frame, then we'll discuss these hypotheticals. From what we see they are moving a handful of meters per frame.
Yes each movement is completed in exactly 1/24 s.
There is a limit to the acceleration the technique allows, so he will have to gradually increase his speed by gradually increasing the distance he is moving. Notice that he needs to follow the rules of trajectory, so he can't run circles around a frame; he needs to roughly run straight to it.
From the narration we know that he didn't surpass it before going for maximum speed, and that merely surpassing subsonic speed is dangerous for Maki. If you have evidence from the narration that he massively surpassed subsonic speed, provide it.
Small relatively to what is claimed. What is claimed is that the crater is ~40 m deep. Or around 23 times the height of Yuji.
Hollow as in they broke the ceiling of an underground sewer canal/tunnel. There are thin debris with smooth surfaces on both sides.
- If they are stairs then the area was mostly hollow.
- Mahito is basicly touching the wall. Why not scale his height to the height of the wall? The wall certainly doesn't look ~40 m tall.
Anyway, I've lost the will to argue about this and it seems that no one so far has changed their mind. Do you still consider this debate productive?
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Nope, it is going no where.
I kind of think staff opinion is the only way this can properly resolve, unfortunately as we cant convince each other
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Well most of the calcs illustrate that this technique isn't the fastest thing in the verse. But given how calcs can ignore the narrative of the speed of the verse, this may come down to a downgrade for the verse since Maki will likely be considered an outlier, Yuji's several supersonic calcs will probably be disregarded and we'll have Subsonic High Tiers. Nice.
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So if we did go with Subsonic for the High tiers except Gojo
Would that mean literally only Gojo would be massively hypersonic if that is the path taken if so then. (Regardless seemingly Jogo jumped at a similar time/speed to Gojo’s casual jump in regards to the explosion Calc)
Lmao
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Ah fudge
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I cant even process the amount of flack the jjk pages would get
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It would just look weird imo to have Gojo’s casual speed which other characters can perceive and try to react to but aren’t allowed to scale to it because Gojo is the fastest and 1/24 Sorcery means everyone else has to be Sub or TransonicI cant even process the amount of flack the jjk pages would get
But that’s an argument from disbelief or whatever its called so it being weird as hell isn’t an argument in of itself
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And people have forgotten this
vsbattles.fandom.com
Jujutsu Kaisen - Maki sola
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Another outlier? heh.And people have forgotten this
Jujutsu Kaisen - Maki sola
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I wonder how many outliers it takes for it to stop being an outlier lol
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This has been discussed for more than 2 pages and no one has changed their minds yet (This discussion is also extremely boring). This was basically a "Content Revision" thread. I will summarize everything to make it easier to understand
Now a mod will have the context
- Arguments for subsonic
- Naoy is said to have exceeded subsonic speed and at the same time was faster than Maki's vision. And then Naoy breaks through a sound barrier, showing that he just went beyond sound at that moment. And since this is considered incredible by the narrator, this shows that it is something difficult for common characters (Like Maki, who is a powerfull character at this point)
- 既に亜音速を超えている直哉に対し
- For Naoya who has already exceeded the subsonic speed
- The fastest sorcerers have a cursed technique that divides the movement into 24 (1/24 seconds). With this same cursed technique, the characters are able to go beyond the vision of the main characters, which makes the subsonic consistent
- With a massive low-end the calculations do not exceed subsonic+ speed
- The studies that show that human vision is for peak human only, and therefore cannot be used as a character that disappears from the page
- Anime cannot be used because it disrupts consistency
- Naoy is said to have exceeded subsonic speed and at the same time was faster than Maki's vision. And then Naoy breaks through a sound barrier, showing that he just went beyond sound at that moment. And since this is considered incredible by the narrator, this shows that it is something difficult for common characters (Like Maki, who is a powerfull character at this point)
- Arguments for above than subsonic
- The statement is "Who had already had already surpassed subsonic speed". "Had" past tense. Meaning that well before the statement or the attack in the moment, he had surpassed sub-sonic speeds, not in the moment of the statement or the attack. Not only that but he was becoming faster and faster. All the statement means is that sometime in his earlier speeds he had surpassed sub-sonic. And knowing he is getting faster and faster he is now blitzing Maki who is hypersonic. Nothing contradictory. The statement also never says other characters aren't above subsonic. (Text from @PowerToScale )
- The cursed technique's distance limit is unknown, and therefore it is almost impossible to define the character's speed when he use this technique. If Naoy or even Naobito for example manages to use the technique over a distance of 500 meters the character won't take only 0.08 seconds to cross a few meters. But since the distance is unknown, the point is irrelevant
- Just because the result is lower does not mean it is correct
- Shadow still doenst explanation why
- Akutami herself helped with the anime timeframe
- Subsonic is not consistent
- Hypersonic feat
- Massively Hypersonic feat
- Hypersonic feat
- Supersonic feat
- High Hypersonic+ feat
- Subsonic+ feat
- Massively Hypersonic feat
- Transonic feat
- Massively Hypersonic feat (It needs to be recalculated, but the result doesn't change much)
- Subsonic+ feat
Now a mod will have the context
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Yall turned a General Discussion into a CRT? Incredible.
Agree for more than subsonic
Agree for more than subsonic
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Finally its over.
We can shut up about this topic now lmao
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Amazin'
Will steelman the points:
Surpassing subsonic speed is a characteristic of Naoya gradually building up his speed using his Innate Technique to the maximum; this is his maximum effort. He was blitzing her long before he did this. The mere fact that he surpassed subsonic speed is a problem for Maki; how much he exceeded it is unknown (though if he needs to go through that much effort in order to move ~15 meters with his technique, then this doesn't bode well), nonetheless we know that exceeded subsonic speed is a problem for Maki (note: almost all characters are slower than Maki).
The distance Naoya needs to move in order to blitz powerful and fast fighters is known.
A few meters is all he needs.
The technique creates plenty of low showings and anti-feats (again, not saying that it is impossible for better speed feats to exist), nonetheless claiming that he is moving 500 meters is pure fantasy; if he was moving so much distance in a straight line (since the technique doesn't allow large changes to trajectory) we would've known.
Per the wiki's page on Outliers:
If taking the low-end methods of the calcs reduces the number of outliers, then the low-ends should be taken.
The anime can contain differences in how the feats happen; the argument isn't about meta-consistency, it is that such depictions (Maki bullet catch being an example) contradict the manga instead of just adding additional context, and is therefore lower on the canon hierarchy.
Will steelman the points:
Surpassing subsonic speed is a characteristic of Naoya gradually building up his speed using his Innate Technique to the maximum; this is his maximum effort. He was blitzing her long before he did this. The mere fact that he surpassed subsonic speed is a problem for Maki; how much he exceeded it is unknown (though if he needs to go through that much effort in order to move ~15 meters with his technique, then this doesn't bode well), nonetheless we know that exceeded subsonic speed is a problem for Maki (note: almost all characters are slower than Maki).
The distance Naoya needs to move in order to blitz powerful and fast fighters is known.
A few meters is all he needs.
The technique creates plenty of low showings and anti-feats (again, not saying that it is impossible for better speed feats to exist), nonetheless claiming that he is moving 500 meters is pure fantasy; if he was moving so much distance in a straight line (since the technique doesn't allow large changes to trajectory) we would've known.
Per the wiki's page on Outliers:
| However, efforts should be made to try to reconcile outliers with other canon information, and only very extreme examples should be classed as completely unusable. |
The anime can contain differences in how the feats happen; the argument isn't about meta-consistency, it is that such depictions (Maki bullet catch being an example) contradict the manga instead of just adding additional context, and is therefore lower on the canon hierarchy.
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Stop with this shit, dude.
This has already been finalized with a mod, we argued (For more than 2 pages, with no one changing their mind), it was decided, simple. If we continue this it will be something without end
This has already been finalized with a mod, we argued (For more than 2 pages, with no one changing their mind), it was decided, simple. If we continue this it will be something without end
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The manga version of the Maki Calc I’m pretty sure is still Supersonic even with the 60m/s for slow rubber bullets
Just give it a rest man It has been decided already I even am fine with 1-2 of your points but just stop
Its not productive
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Thinking back now, he simply explained the point in a better way, so I guess ok. If he wants to call KingTempest (Or Danage) again, whatever
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New topic, what are we doing about the characters having curse manip? @Milly_Rocking_Bandit brought up when redoing Yuta's page and someone also mentioned how Yaga cursed the guitar guy.
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This topic is open since 2019 lol. The priorities and users have changed, so is it better to create a new thrad?
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Cursing is a pretty blatant and constant thing that happens throughout the series
I think they should have it
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I wouldn’t be opposed to a new thread tbh
But ever since the forum move most pages have stuck to the same discussion thread like the OPM one can’t believe that’s over a 100 pages.
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Yeah, I don't know if it's necessary to create a new. But with a new one it would be easier to note what was finished and what was not.
Anyway
Anyway
- Speed for general
Subsonic speed- Completed- New calculations for the verse
- Hypersonic feat - Evaluated and accepted
- Massively Hypersonic feat
- Hypersonic feat - Evaluated and accepted
- Supersonic feat - Evaluated and accepted
- High Hypersonic+ feat - Evaluated and accepted
- Subsonic+ feat
- Massively Hypersonic feat - Evaluated and accepted
- Transonic feat
- Massively Hypersonic feat - Needs recalculation
- Subsonic+ feat
- AP for Low and Mid-Tiers
- Town level feat - Evaluated and accepted (But there is still a discussion about)
- Small Town feat - Evaluated and accepted
- Small Town+ feat - Needs recalculation
- City Block/Multi City Block feat
- Multi City Block feat
- We need more calculations
- LS for Low-Tiers and Mid-Tiers
- Class M feat - Evaluated and accepted
- Class M feat
- We need more calculations
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For god tiers we still have that Class G feat but yeah that also still needs Eval
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Should calc the crater kenjaku made with uzumaki just give more support to a certain tier.
And Im guessing the Island lvl Kenjaku isn't being accepted?
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It wouldn’t matter for Kenjaku since that was probably just Pulverization
Although I think Kusakabe tanked it so maybe it can scale to him
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Tbh
I don't see a problem with scaling
Kamo
Panda
Mei Mei
Megumi
Nanami
and others to Awasakas car throw or elephant feat
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yes that's why I would rather it get calced. So Kusakabe isn't just scaling to someone but has his own calced feat.
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Vaporization and even pulverization is wank, we can see the fragments. So the result is ~High 8-C
God-Tiers is something polemic, so it's better to work with the easiest for now
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Pain
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I know the discussion about Subsonic is over, but have someone ever stopped to think that if that happened the characters would also be tier 9 because Naoy said his attacks were KE? I thought this only now
Anyway, does anyone remember how many floors Itadori, Todo and Mahito were underground at the time of the fight?
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I believe b4 or b5 since Todo headed down to b5 with nitta then met Yuji
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