Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Arkenis]

@ShadowWhoWalks

Naoya surpasses sos, the sonic boom implies this, so this means weakened Maki reacted to that.
Reasons why Having your guts opened would hinder your movements, for one it's explicitly pointed out that Maki wanted to end the fight due to this, also she fought the entire clan. The narrative pushes her fatigue and also having wounds generally is a hindrance to overall combat.

So we're left with a fatigued weakened Maki reacting to someone who surpassed sos.

Prior to this

Yuji, Choso, Naoya, Yuuta, all have reaction feat to each other, Yuji reacts to Yuuta trying to blitz him, Naoya keeps up with this speed in base. Choso, someone who is relative to Yuji who can react to Sos PB cannot perceive Naoya without amping his eyes.

Everything here points to them being above Subsonic and not them being only subsonic.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

He realized, but he is dishonest

We could do without accusations of dishonesty.

@ShadowWhoWalks

Naoya surpasses sos indicting the sonic boom, so this means weakened Maki reacted to that.
Reasons why Having your guts opened would hinder your movements, for one it's explicitly pointed out that Maki wanted to end the fight due to this, also she fought the entire clan. The narrative pushes her fatigue and also having wounds generally is a hindrance to overall combat.

So we're left with a fatigued weakened Maki reacting to someone who surpassed sos.

Prior to this

Yuji, Choso, Naoya, Yuuta, all have reaction feat to each other, Yuji reacts to Yuuta trying to blitz him, Naoya keeps up with this speed in base. Choso, someone who is relative to Yuji who can react to Sos PB cannot perceive Naoya without amping his eyes.

Everything here points to them being above Subsonic and not them being only subsonic.

Maki can just predict where Naoya will attack next, since Projection Sorcery doesn't allow the user to change his route. She was way slower than him before he went top speed.

Yuji needs to guess where to dodge PB (aim dodge) with a 50% chance of success, even from a considerable distance. So it either considerably slows down after a few meters when he dared Choso to fire, or Yuji only scales in reactions and not combat or travel speed.

 

[Arkenis]

We could do without accusations of dishonesty.


Maki can just predict where Naoya will attack next, since Projection Sorcery doesn't allow the user to change his route. She was way slower than him before he went top speed.

Yuji needs to guess where to dodge PB (aim dodge) with a 50% chance of success, even from a considerable distance. So it either considerably slows down after a few meters when he dared Choso to fire, or Yuji only scales in reactions and not combat or movement speed.

Maki predicted and reacted to him, with a punch, that's combat speed no matter how you look at it.

Yuji didn't need to guess, his words were "if I were to guess wrong" and that's in reference to him if he tried aim dodging. Yuji doesn't try aim dodging, he just dodges it from up close. so no his feat of dodging it isn't aim dodging. If you go with him scaling in reactions that only bolsters Naoya's base speed. But Yuji isn't just reacting he's moving his upper body down to the ground. But regardless of this I think Yuji's perception of it is also fine as a way to scale Naoya. Either way Naoya still scales above someone who can react to sos attack.

It slows down to some unknown speed after exceeding sos, wherever it drops down it's still a threat to people who have numerous supersonic calcs.

Also 2. The character is clearly and explicitly shown to move after the attack/projectile is in motion, depicting quite clearly that the character is reacting to the attack/projectile itself and not its source. For example, a character who is shot at, moving the body after the bullet has left the gun, to dodge it. Just having the attack/projectile be shown in motion simultaneously with the dodge or the attack/projectile be shown in motion with the dodger off panel is not enough. The projectile must be shown in motion with the dodger in the same panel and the dodge coming afterwards.

 

[Arkenis]

I will say this though, since it'll probably be brought up in the future, when Yuji reacts to Pb, it actually does somewhat cut him across the face. Take it how you will

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I will only answer this because my school today starts at 16:50, not 16:00 hours

The first link doesn't appear to be relevant at all. The second link claims that peak human perception is 13 millisecond instead of 100 millisecond.
Currently, the wiki claims that:

• Average human = 200 millisecond reactions
• Peak human = 100 millisecond reactions

We as the audience aren't peak humans, so that is reason to not use the 0.013 timeframe for that panel.
And yes, moving Faster than the Eye without context is just Subsonic, starting from 34.3 m/s acording to the wiki.

And 0.013 is used on the wiki, you can talk to some CGM

Vampire dodging bullets and blitzing kids

vsbattles.fandom.com

Chainsaw man: Quanxi kills a fuck ton of people

vsbattles.fandom.com

Part 1 Naruto blitzes fodder

vsbattles.fandom.com

My Hero Academia: Recipro Burst

vsbattles.fandom.com

And there are many other calculations. The page does not specify if 34m/s is faster than the human eye, because 76m/s is at the subsonic level according to the page. So yeah, youre wrong. Also, if you use 200 milliseconds you get 0.2 seconds, which is 5 meters per second. So well, self explanatory

Since you didn't address it, I assume that you don't dispute that memories don't fulfill the conditiosn for reaction speed.

Todo literally deactivated the cursed energy in reaction to the thinking.

We didn't assume a low speed for the projectile to get a timeframe.

We assume speed, in any calculation of dodging a surprise attack or a specific object. You are even changing how the calculation system here works

This reminds me of when my teacher threw chalk at me

vsbattles.fandom.com

Garou has really good reactions

vsbattles.fandom.com

A Compilation of Sonic Feats (Spoilers)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Didn't address the point. The anime doesn't show us the wood growing from the ground. It just cuts in to the wood after it already grew.

In fact, it shows


You can look at it frame by frame. It's simple, at the exactly moment Kamo's eye disappears, the sound starts, indicating that the tree is growing

By the time Yuji moved back all that distance, the Cursed Spirit was already upside down. So it didn't just move its hand slightly as the timeframe implies.

See the anime

The anime puts it into better context. With that, the timeframe is much shorter, but the distance is much shorter as well. Result is practically the same

The link says that meteors are no longer set on fire if their speed is 2-4 km/s

And that is the minimum speed to calculate a KE of a meteor. Jogo set the meteor on fire, and then we use this speed (3km/s), simple

• If the meteor in question was shown to be Ablated, but didn't come from space, we will use Ablation speeds, which are the minimum speed an object needs to move in order for it to be ablated by its own friction with the atmosphere, the values range from 2000-4000 m/s.

From Calculation page

An eruption on the ground is a type of explosions, but this doesn't mean that this has the speed of a typical air burst explosion.

There is even smoke from the explosion

We've seen how little meters they can run though.

This does not justify anything. Why would they go too far if they are fighting? You didn't see the distance limit, so you can't assume anything

And as we've seen, moving a few meters within 1/24 s is enough to blitz high-tier people.

It doesn't matter. If I travel 1000 meters in 0.1 seconds I will have a speed of 10000m/s. If I have this speed and move in 10 meters, the time will be 0.001 seconds. Distance and speed change everything in feats, fights, anything

Only elite Sorcerers can do passive full-body reinforcement. I imagine the speed of the bullets can overwhelm them.

Still, you are saying that normal weapons are something really useful against people who can survive going through a wall or even a building. Kenjaku has not specified what is useful, you has no basis

It is relevant when the reason Maki is in big trouble is that the opponent boosted his speed so it is no longer Subsonic.

She only said that Naoy has exceeded the subsonic speed

 

[Arkenis]

Anyone calced Naoya also reacting to PB?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Still, you are saying that normal weapons are something really useful against people who can survive going through a wall or even a building. Kenjaku has not specified what is useful, you has no basis

I interpret it as him saying Bullets amped with cursed energy at a range is a efficient way to fight a sorcerer
Because if we are genuinely saying Normal Guns with no alterations effective then man
All those blatantly tier 8 and up feats out the window (And that would be, what they would say in my country what a “Domkop” (No offense) would think is legit)

 

[Arkenis]

I felt like it was more of Kenjaku saying their useful because of the distance you have when using guns rather than it's speed or power. But who knows maybe guns in jjk are just building lvl

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

But who knows maybe guns in jjk are just building lvl

MHA has Small City level Bullets so can’t complain lol

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Im back. So


3-A Todo when

 

[Cyberblader90]

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

And 0.013 is used on the wiki, you can talk to some CGM

And there are many other calculations. The page does not specify if 34m/s is faster than the human eye, because 76m/s is at the subsonic level according to the page. So yeah, youre wrong. Also, if you use 200 milliseconds you get 0.2 seconds, which is 5 meters per second. So well, self explanatory

Notice that I never said 'we should never use 0.013 s'. I said 0.013 s shouldn't be used on normal non-peak humans. Like us the audience.
Again: 'starting from 34.4 m/s'. Meaning 34.4 m/s and above.

Todo literally deactivated the cursed energy in reaction to the thinking.

Or he decided to end it within 0.01 s, and he subconsciously created false memories about how he came to this decision.

We assume speed, in any calculation of dodging a surprise attack or a specific object. You are even changing how the calculation system here works

I am talking about the variable avaliable for the buds hitting Todo, not making a claim about other calcs with different variables.

This is different though. We didn't assume a low speed for the projectile to get a timeframe. We already have a stated timeframe, and the timeframe tells us that the projectile is Subsonic.

We don't need to assume the projectile speed to get a timeframe like with other calcs; we are already given a timeframe here: 0.01 s.
We can use this timeframe to get the speed of the buds. Which will turn out to be Subsonic.

You can look at it frame by frame. It's simple, at the exactly moment Kamo's eye disappears, the sound starts, indicating that the tree is growing

If you look at it frame by frame, in the first frame we see that the bright green of the dust that is already kicked up in the air at the top of the screen (and logically, the scene is a mostly a static image with special effects such as shaking, zooming, blurring). So we can't pretend that the first frame after Noritoshi's eye is the tree still in the ground, and then count the speed.

The anime puts it into better context. With that, the timeframe is much shorter, but the distance is much shorter as well. Result is practically the same

Actually the timeframe appears to be much larger. The original manga calc remains flawed.

And that is the minimum speed to calculate a KE of a meteor. Jogo set the meteor on fire, and then we use this speed (3km/s), simple

So if it set on fire not through friction, we assume that it was set on fire through friction and slap on a speed?

Based on your assumptions, can you calculate this feat?


Since the meteor summoned by a fire-user is on fire, this means that it'll hitt the ground in a fraction of a second from that altitude. Yet you have characters travelling, having conversations, fighting, and holding still for a while (from their prespective). And all this is in a fraction of a second because the meteor is on fire!

There is even smoke from the explosion

The discussion was about the manga version. Looking at it again, it appears that the ground being cracked is from Gojo hitting it earlier so there is no reason to assume an underground eruption.
None the less, Gojo not dodging the attack, which is more clear in the anime version, remains.

This does not justify anything. Why would they go too far if they are fighting? You didn't see the distance limit, so you can't assume anything

So you concede that they occassionaly move a few meters within 1/24 s, which is Subsonic.
The problem is that this is considered fast for high-tier character, and have in fact blitzed them.

It doesn't matter. If I travel 1000 meters in 0.1 seconds I will have a speed of 10000m/s. If I have this speed and move in 10 meters, the time will be 0.001 seconds. Distance and speed change everything in feats, fights, anything

There is a limit to the acceleration as stated by Naoya. So he can't go maximum speed and distance from the first frame. Furthermore he needs to finish the technique to move freely, otherwise moving to the next frame takes 1/24 s.
This still doesn't address my argument. Why is moving a few meters within 1/24 s fast for high-tier characters, and why was this too fast for them to percieve?

Still, you are saying that normal weapons are something really useful against people who can survive going through a wall or even a building. Kenjaku has not specified what is useful, you has no basis

Let's keep it vague without pondering on it if you want: It is wise to use conventional weapons like sniper rifles on Sorcerers.

She only said that Naoy has exceeded the subsonic speed

The narrator is the one making the statements. Maki is in trouble, and one of the reasons is that Naoya surpassed subsonic speed, which happened after he went all-out and built up his speed via Projection Sorcery.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Notice that I never said 'we should never use 0.013 s'. I said 0.013 s shouldn't be used on normal non-peak humans. Like us the audience.
Again: 'starting from 34.4 m/s'. Meaning 34.4 m/s and above.

I know I said I’m done but Actually 0.013 is a standard Young Adult’s perception in good lighting
We as the audience have perception around there

Also imo the 0.01 seconds for Todo already obliterates the consistency of the 1/24
How can characters who can think and react in 0.01 seconds suddenly get blitzed in 0.04?

I’ve already explained my opinion on Gojo dodging or not so I won’t mention that

 

[Arkenis]

Goatki

 

[Arkenis]

What if I just argue Maki's perception of Naoya is hinder cause one of her eyes were cut. What will you do then?!

 

[Arkenis]

Man Gege really just killing people now. Head hurts

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Notice that I never said 'we should never use 0.013 s'. I said 0.013 s shouldn't be used on normal non-peak humans. Like us the audience.

You know that the experiment with 0.013 seconds was used with normal humans, right? The article didn't even mention if it is only peak human beings who are able to see these seconds. Literally the first paragraph of the site:

• Imagine seeing a dozen pictures flash by in a fraction of a second. You might think it would be impossible to identify any images you see for such a short time. However, a team of neuroscientists from MIT has found that the human brain can process entire images that the eye sees for as little as 13 milliseconds — the first evidence of such rapid processing speed.

The research refers to normal humans like you and me. You apparently didn't even check the calculations and the study

Or he decided to end it within 0.01 s, and he subconsciously created false memories about how he came to this decision.

Massive headcanon. What is hard to accept that Todo simply thinking in 0.01 seconds?

We don't need to assume the projectile speed to get a timeframe like with other calcs; we are already given a timeframe here: 0.01 s.

The thinking was finished in 0.01 seconds. It's the same reasoning as snail speed. I am calculating the complete thinking time, it is literally the same logic as the other calculations I showed, but you didn't read apparently

If you look at it frame by frame, in the first frame we see that the bright green of the dust that is already kicked up in the air at the top of the screen (and logically, the scene is a mostly a static image with special effects such as shaking, zooming, blurring). So we can't pretend that the first frame after Noritoshi's eye is the tree still in the ground, and then count the speed.

The first frame only shows the floor

Actually the timeframe appears to be much larger. The original manga calc remains flawed.

.... Lol no

Panel = 608pxl
Blue Line = 73pxl | 0.04054054054
Distance = (0.04054054054)*(608)/[(73)*2tan(70/2 deg)]
Distance = 0.24110903038 meters

Panel = 608pxl
Blue Line = 165pxl | 0.04054054054
Distance = (0.04054054054)*(608)/[(165)*2tan(70/2 deg)]
Distance = 0.1066724801 meters
Real distance = 0.24110903038-0.1066724801
Real distance = 0.13443655028 meters
Superhuman baseline speed (Low-End) = 12.43m/s
Superhuman average speed (High-End) = 23.365m/s
Low-End = 0.13443655028/12.43
Timeframe = 0.01081549077 sec
Movement = 1.77448693401
Speed = 1.77448693401/0.01081549077
Speed = 164.069016538m/s (Subsonic+)
High-End = 0.13443655028/23.365
Timeframe = 0.00575375776 sec
Movement = 1.77448693401
Speed = 1.77448693401/0.00575375776
Speed = 308.40487348m/s (Transonic)

So if it set on fire not through friction, we assume that it was set on fire through friction and slap on a speed?

• Meteor ablation occurs when a meteor travels through the Earth's atmosphere and the aerodynamic pressure of the surrounding atmosphere surpasses the material strength of the object. This generates heat from atmospheric entry and breaks up the object, causing it to lose mass.

You will note that the meteor at its tip is taking damage with this scan, which is caused by speed. So

None the less, Gojo not dodging the attack, which is more clear in the anime version, remains.

Gojo didn't dodge, he jumped because yes. You know how infinity gets when Jogo's attack hits Gojo, it gets fire fragments or smoke, in this case of the explosion there is no fragmentations

So you concede that they occassionaly move a few meters within 1/24 s, which is Subsonic.

If I can run 10000 meters in 1/24 I am not subsonic, for example. We don't know the actual speed of when they move in 1/24 seconds..
And you know that 1/24 (0.08 sec) is peak human level, right?

Furthermore he needs to finish the technique to move freely, otherwise moving to the next frame takes 1/24 s.

Literally irrelevant

This still doesn't address my argument. Why is moving a few meters within 1/24 s fast for high-tier characters, and why was this too fast for them to percieve?

If I run 1000 in 1/24 seconds I am not subsonic. Do you know how far they have run? No, you don't know. The FPS ability consists of the characters moving within 24 parts of 1 second, but we don't know how far they go with that. If they can move for example 500 meters with the FPS ability, the speed is going to be 12000M/S. It is not stated that in each movement they use and need exactly 1/24 seconds, it is even stated otherwise, with Naoy saying he will "Upping the speed" (Chapter 138). Basically, they can run at X speed using the 1/24, to find out X you need to find out the distance to the limit, which is impossible with the recent information

Let's keep it vague without pondering on it if you want: It is wise to use conventional weapons like sniper rifles on Sorcerers.

Yeah, 9-C sorcerers. Come on, guns are the most incosistent things in fiction

Maki is in trouble, and one of the reasons is that Naoya surpassed subsonic speed, which happened after he went all-out and built up his speed via Projection Sorcery.

And you don't know how much Naoy exceeded the subsonic speed, simple.

 

[Gitagon]

Naoya went out like a little ***** LMAO and after all the shit he talked .

 

[Everything12]

Linking to illegal Manga sites is against the rules of this site, kindly would you remove any of the ones I missed including ones quoted. I have taken this to the Rule Violation Thread.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Holy shit, Jujutsu has novels

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Holy shit, Jujutsu has novels

Yep I only learnt that a month or so ago
If Viz translates them I’ll probably check them out

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

There is no translation yet, right?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

There is no translation yet, right?

Nope none to my knowledge

 

[Arkenis]

Yep I only learnt that a month or so ago
If Viz translates them I’ll probably check them out

my friend read them and said there's nothing notable in them.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Well, is the story good?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

my friend read them and said there's nothing notable in them.

I mean I’d still read them even if they were just character interactions imo
I just wouldn’t go out of my way to immediately read them

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Low 7-C+ feat accepted. Extremely consistent with Hanami's Low 7-C feat (Also accepted)

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Low 7-C+ feat accepted. Extremely consistent with Hanami's Low 7-C feat (Also accepted)

Cool stuff, so we won’t have the likes of Hanami or Yuji has 8-B all the time what a relief

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

By the time Itadori survived a Low 7-C+ attack he had 1.2 times the potency than before. So characters like Nanami, Naobito, Hanami and Jogo scale 1.2x below than the feat

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

How the hell are people saying that the crater is small with this scan?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

How the hell are people saying that the crater is small with this scan?

That is extremely odd when it looks quite tall on both these pages
It’s radius and even height is a little inconsistent as expected but overall it’s portrayed as big
Also idk why in the comments of your blog it’s being claimed to be hollow (Saying that you have to prove it isn’t hollow)
The walls surrounding it don’t look hollow at all outside of where the tunnel holes are

 

[Arkenis]

How the hell are people saying that the crater is small with this scan?

Don't Yuji and Mahito fall for a good bit also?

 

[Arkenis]

Are those stairs????? top panel mid section

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Are those stairs????? top panel mid section

They definitely look like stairs
If so maybe they can be used to determine height

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Don't Yuji and Mahito fall for a good bit also?

They did it looked like they fell for a second or two
Which can’t happen if it’s like only 2x Yuji’s height in depth like people claim

 

[Arkenis]

They definitely look like stairs
If so maybe they can be used to determine height

Yea exactly, definitely just shuts down the whole it being 2x yujis height.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

2 times Itadori's height is ridiculous.

Honestly, it seems that people want the verse not to have a higher tier. Holy shit, every little thing turns into a mess

 

[Arkenis]

Could you not get the height from Todo to them?

Also here just blatant evidence that it was more likely vf since there's smaller pieces of rock

 

[Arkenis]

2 times Itadori's height is ridiculous.

Honestly, it seems that people want the verse not to have a higher tier. Holy shit, every little thing turns into a mess

seems we had the same thing in mind LOL

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Could you not get the height from Todo to them?

Also here just blatant evidence that it was more likely vf since there's smaller pieces of rock

It’s mostly VF there are a couple large pieces tho
But most can fit in that super shallow water Yuji and Mahito fought on