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Frisk Low 2-C Upgrade

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Rez said:
I was just saying the flowey fight does happens in pacifist route
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Oh, yeah obvious, the pacifist route follows almost everything that neutral route does, except that pacifist route is longer and u do things in the laboratory, amalgam, encounter etc etc and Asriel fight
 
DragonLord said:
I mean if it were up to me I wouldn’t exactly be against a 3-A rating on Omega Flowey considering it seems to me thats it’s implied he did some Extreme World destruction, the whole segment starts with the game saying all Humans and Monsters have disappeared and then Omega Flowey appears with the Save File “My World”

that’s just my two cents tho
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I’d also probably put a small note that Omega Flowey’s LV on his save file was 9999, while Chara, the one who destroyed a timeline had just 20, and Asriel would likely have infinity with his listed stats, i understand that would probably be a controversial point of view though
 
DaReaperMan said:
And this makes Omega Flowey any different why? And its heavily implied that you(the player) loaded a save there
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No it doesn't make him any different but it does mean that the fight does happens in the pacifist route when you said it doesn't
 
DragonLord said:
I’d also probably put a small note that Omega Flowey’s LV on his save file was 9999, while Chara, the one who destroyed a timeline had just 20, and Asriel would likely have infinity with his listed stats, i understand that would probably be a controversial point of view though
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That's not Chara's, it's Geno Frisk's. Chara is the stats. They are Attack, Defense, Gold, EXP, LV, everything.
 
y3p_owo said:
They don't really say which, they only say the feeling every time that one of those numbers goes up is them.
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Aaaah I see, well considering Chara seems to be only connected to Frisk I can’t imagine there LV would be anything above 20 (though with the Heart that Power would be massively increased)
 
Mind that this may be going into a bit of Headcanon, but from what I always understood is that Flowey was the past “Player” of Undertale, with him saying that your Saves overwrite his and that a few certain characters caused a fair amount of retries, in that case Omega Flowey would basically be him getting back his “Control” in a sense and becoming a Player, and like the Player he can only really destroy the world, not remake it, which is what Flowey intended to do with all of the 7 Hearts, in that case I don’t really see a problem with scaling to Chara if they truly are just the stats of the player
 
DragonLord said:
Mind that this may be going into a bit of Headcanon, but from what I always understood is that Flowey was the past “Player” of Undertale, with him saying that your Saves overwrite his and that a few certain characters caused a fair amount of retries, in that case Omega Flowey would basically be him getting back his “Control” in a sense and becoming a Player, and like the Player he can only really destroy the world, not remake it, which is what Flowey intended to do with all of the 7 Hearts, in that case I don’t really see a problem with scaling to Chara if they truly are just the stats of the player
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Actually no flowey is Asriel and he gets save stuff from absorbing chara's soul to go past the barrier this fusion was killed by humans which is why he became flowey
 
DragonLord said:
Mind that this may be going into a bit of Headcanon, but from what I always understood is that Flowey was the past “Player” of Undertale
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Nah nah, Flowey is Asriel after losing his soul cuz he was killed when he carried Chara to that village outside the underground, the hummans attacked Asriel, and then, Asriel lose his soul and was transformed into a flower
 
He died in the underground though the human's only lethally wounded him he managed to return in the underground and died their after death Asriel's body turned to dust, which spread across the garden in new home so his save power comes from chara
 
I know Flowey’s origin yes and I know where he got the Save and Load powers, I’m not saying he’s the literal player, but that he seems to have acted in the same role, if you read his ending dialogue he constantly mentions stuff like how He had fun messing with Papyrus or had to retry against Sans, or how he notices the players tendency to seek out all of the content needlessly or how to get “a better ending”, in a sense he “played” with the world of Undertale before the Player did to reach his goals to get the Seven Hearts, but never could seemingly
 
DragonLord said:
I know Flowey’s origin yes and I know where he got the Save and Load powers, I’m not saying he’s the literal player, but that he seems to have acted in the same role, if you read his ending dialogue he constantly mentions stuff like how He had fun messing with Papyrus or had to retry against Sans, or how he notices the players tendency to seek out all of the content needlessly or how to get “a better ending”, in a sense he “played” with the world of Undertale before the Player did to reach his goals to get the Seven Hearts, but never could seemingly
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Basically my thought was, that if Flowey has the same Power Source (Determination), can use it in a similar way to become a sort of “player” to the world, messing with it with Saves and Reloads and has LV and EXP, a LV 9999 Flowey with 6 Souls would probably be equal if not superior to a LV 20 Chara that has seemingly just 1 Soul
 
DragonLord said:
Basically my thought was, that if Flowey has the same Power Source (Determination), can use it in a similar way to become a sort of “player” to the world, messing with it with Saves and Reloads and has LV and EXP, a LV 9999 Flowey with 6 Souls would probably be equal if not superior to a LV 20 Chara that has seemingly just 1 Soul
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If there is one thing that's clear in Undertale, it's that one soul with a lot of determination >>>>>> a lot of souls with a little determination.
 
FinePoint said:
If there is one thing that's clear in Undertale, it's that one soul with a lot of determination >>>>>> a lot of souls with a little determination.
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I mean, at this point Omega Flowey’s own Determination/Soul power also seems high since it overrides your own, which is why now takes back his power to Save and Load the world
 
DragonLord said:
I mean, at this point Omega Flowey’s own Determination/Soul power also seems high since it overrides your own, which is why now takes back his power to Save and Load the world
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A vast majority of the souls he absorbs probably boost his power by a marginal amount, considering there's no apparent difference between if you kill all but one of the monsters or none of them before he absorbs them.
 
DragonLord said:
I think Frisk’s AP with a bit of Omega Flowey’s AP/Dura
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And that's what I was trying to get at.
I don't think the monster souls helped much, and the human souls rebelled against him, so how do we actually rate Frisk's interaction to him?
 
idk, I’m no expert but it feels to me that you could make a Decent case for 3-A to Low 2-C Omega Flowey, though really I’m also not sure if it be right to scale Frisk at that moment to Omega Flowey considering the entire fight was basically a troll, and after the HP is down he just one shots you over and over
 
DragonLord said:
idk, I’m no expert but it feels to me that you could make a Decent case for 3-A to Low 2-C Omega Flowey, though really I’m also not sure if it be right to scale Frisk at that moment to Omega Flowey considering the entire fight was basically a troll, and after the HP is down he just one shots you over and over
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While I still feel like Frisk should downscale from Omega Flowey, I understand why we wouldn't/shouldn't
 
Flowey's stats are irrelevant to the current discussion and can be discussed another time. Frisk's profile is what this thread is about and what needs to be prioritized.
 
Although about Flowey, it is notable that he's rated as Unknown due to his much higher but still not demonstrated strength. Doing the same for Frisk would make a lot of sense, so now I'm preferable for that side.
 
RinneItachi said:
Although about Flowey, it is notable that he's rated as Unknown due to his much higher but still not demonstrated strength. Doing the same for Frisk would make a lot of sense, so now I'm preferable for that side.
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Yeah that's kinda was the reason why it devolved into talking about what tier Omega Flowey should be
 
I also think that frisk in the asriel fight should be a separate key from them throughout the rest of the game, since unlike the other times where they have higher determination than normal and they just get a power/speed boost, frisk in the asriel fight gets a few whole new abilities (creating healing items, straight up healing themselves, regeneration and the new SAVE which can bring people's memories back)
 
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