2-C Dragon Ball Super upgrade

[Darkmon_cns]

SSJB isn’t At least Low 2-C, it just has a regular Low 2-C rating. If SSJB became At least Low 2-C, then a kaiōken stacked on top of it would be accepted as 2-C

Blue gogeta is the form that defeat broly, who has the statement of being comparable to beerus, even using a single kioken should double his power, using times 20 should make it questionless

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

No he not, the timeframe between ToP and Broly Saga allow both Goku and Vegeta to train, they are unknown amount of power stronger than their ToP self, so you can't scale Broly to Jiren and said Jiren are stronger

Yes I can, Broly at his strongest scales to "probably stronger" than beerus. Jiren in all of DB media is stated above the GoDs or on their level and here he's literally stated to be stronger than belmod who's also stated stronger than beerus BY WHIS. So Goku literally stomped a stronger opponent than gogeta.

We don’t know exactly how much more powerful Broly is compared to Beerus, so it’s still At least Low 2-C

I agree.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Blue gogeta is the form that defeat broly, who has the statement of being comparable to beerus, even using a single kioken should double his power, using times 20 should make it questionless

Gogeta doesn't need kaioken to reach 2-C.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Blue gogeta is the form that defeat broly, who has the statement of being comparable to beerus, even using a single kioken should double his power, using times 20 should make it questionless

Oh yeah, then SSJB Gogeta could definitely be 2-C with that

Gogeta doesn't need kaioken to reach 2-C.

Yes he does. If he’s going to be rated as such on this wiki, he needs the Kaiōken

 

[Vietthai96]

Blue gogeta is the form that defeat broly, who has the statement of being comparable to beerus, even using a single kioken should double his power, using times 20 should make it questionless

Wrong, he have kaioken because Goku know it, so there is a possibly that he also know it, but he have no feat of using it

Yes I can, Broly at his strongest scales to "probably stronger" than beerus. Jiren in all of DB media is stated above the GoDs or on their level and here he's literally stated to be stronger than belmod who's also stated stronger than beerus BY WHIS. So Goku literally stomped a stronger opponent than gogeta.

He stronger than GoDs by unknown amount of power gap, can't scale at all, assume he automatically x2 stronger than GoDs is wrong. Also nothing show Beerus weaker than Belmod, where the **** you get that logic from

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Wrong, he have kaioken because Goku know it, so there is a possibly that he also know it, but he have no feat of using it

Then have it removed from his profile which is the actual reason I brought it up

Edit: and that would also remove every other move a fusion knows in dragon ball but didn't use, it simply isn't the standard the wiki adopts for fusions and knowing moves

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I guess Kaiōken SSJB Gogeta is technically out of character, because he never used it? So, if he ever were to use it, then he would get such rating. How high would the angels and grand priest be in 2-C then?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

He stronger than GoDs by unknown amount of power gap, can't scale at all, assume he automatically x2 stronger than GoDs is wrong. Also nothing show Beerus weaker than Belmod, where the **** you get that logic from

Same logic applies to broly, SSB gogeta gets 2-C for stomping a weaker fighter than the one MUI goku stomped but goku doesn't get the tier? And the video I just sent you has whis saying that beerus is weaker than belmod.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Okay, the argument isn’t whether we agree that the at least low 2-Cs are 2-C, the point is to get enough evidence to support the at least 2x increase for these characters. With what we’ve gotten so far, there’s nothing good enough for the wiki to accept

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I guess Kaiōken SSJB Gogeta is technically out of character, because he never used it? So, if he ever were to use it, then he would get such rating. How high would the angels and grand priest be in 2-C then?

That's only because he didn't need to /: the idea he wouldn't ever use it because he never has had to is the most ludicrous use of out of character I've seem, and would still mean there isn't a point for a fraction of his powers and abilities section to be there

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Okay, the argument isn’t whether we agree that the at least low 2-Cs are 2-C, the point is to get enough evidence to support the at least 2x increase for these characters. With what we’ve gotten so far, there’s nothing good enough for the wiki to accept

Stomping in DB requires 2x or more, and MUI goku, jiren and gogeta stomped characters far above half low 2-C which is why they get likely 2-C.
Sign 3 goku and full power jiren are just far above the half 2-C by scaling chain but big enough to show at least a 2x gap, so I think they should get possibly 2-C.

 

[BetterThanYou]

I guess Kaiōken SSJB Gogeta is technically out of character, because he never used it? So, if he ever were to use it, then he would get such rating. How high would the angels and grand priest be in 2-C then?

Just unquantifiably baseline

 

[Vietthai96]

Same logic applies to broly, SSB gogeta gets 2-C for stomping a weaker fighter than the one MUI goku stomped but goku doesn't get the tier? And the video I just sent you has whis saying that beerus is weaker than belmod.

1. No he not, Jiren is not stronger or weaker than Broly because Broly fight a stronger version of Goku and Vegeta as both of them training after ToP we don't know how much Goku and Vegeta grow, they could even as strong as UIS 3 Goku, no way to scale, don't force you logic on the other
2. Going by the tone of Whis, he literally joking and make fun of Beerus, can't take that statement as valid

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Stomping in DB requires 2x or more, and MUI goku, jiren and gogeta stomped characters far above half low 2-C which is why they get likely 2-C.
Sign 3 goku and full power jiren are just far above the half 2-C by scaling chain but big enough to show at least a 2x gap, so I think they should get possibly 2-C.

The at least is already there. The exact multiplier is literally unknown, so the “At least” rating is already good as it is. They are definitely at least Low 2-C

 

[BetterThanYou]

This thread is completely pointless. The ratings should stay the way they are.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I agree, AKM said he was going to close this at some point

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

1. No he not, Jiren is not stronger or weaker than Broly because Broly fight a stronger version of Goku and Vegeta as both of them training after ToP we don't know how much Goku and Vegeta grow, they could even as strong as UIS 3 Goku, no way to scale, don't force you logic on the other
2. Going by the tone of Whis, he literally joking and make fun of Beerus, can't take that statement as valid

Goku and vegeta are weaker than beerus, so broly is too but at full power he's "probably stronger than beerus", Goku and vegeta don't scale, all broly has to scale is that one statement for scaling. You're the one making assumptions that they got stronger or weaker when they still clearly not scale to beerus.
Whis wasn't joking he was only laughing because beerus got annoyed when he mentioned someone stronger than him, whis' statement is also supported by so many other statements that state that jiren > GoDs.

The at least is already there. The exact multiplier is literally unknown, so the “At least” rating is already good as it is. They are definitely at least Low 2-C

Yeah but they are easily far enough above half low 2-C to give 2-C, bruh I just showed you proof they're 2xc stronger tf.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Yeah but they are easily far enough above half low 2-C to give 2-C, bruh I just showed you proof they're 2xc stronger tf.

scaling chains aren’t good enough proof for multipliers

 

[Darkmon_cns]

If this thread closes and nothing is done about kioken, I'm seriously going to write up an upgrade or downgrade for gogeta

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

scaling chains aren’t good enough proof for multipliers

Bruh

Stomping in DB requires 2x or more, and MUI goku, jiren and gogeta stomped characters far above half low 2-C which is why they get likely 2-C.
Sign 3 goku and full power jiren are just far above the half 2-C by scaling chain but big enough to show at least a 2x gap, so I think they should get possibly 2-C.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Inconsistent. Goku who was under 2x weaker than Vegeta in their first encounter, could still keep up for a little bit, and couldn’t not do anything. He later on does the Kaiōken times 3, and isn’t even 2x more powerful than Vegeta, yet Vegeta had such a hard time compared to the time Goku had when he was in base

the point is still that heavy proof is needed for this to actually be approved

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Inconsistent. Goku who was under 2x weaker than Vegeta in their first encounter, could still keep up for a little bit, and couldn’t not do anything. He later on does the Kaiōken times 3, and isn’t even 2x more powerful than Vegeta, yet Vegeta had such a hard time compared to the time Goku had when he was in base

the point is still that heavy proof is needed for this to actually be approved

It Honestly seems like more proof then is needed in other circumstances, the actual issue is Goku and vegeta probably haven't actually surpassed beerus and probably won't for awhile, which will retroactively mess up any such upgrade and attempt to reach the next tier, sense in any big climatic battle with beerus they will surly use all there new transformations and not regard there statements about jiren being comparable to a GoD

 

[Pepsiman25th]

Not this shit again.

One, Two, Three, Four 2-C Dragon Ball CRTS.

wheres the serious boundless zeno crts

 

[Darkmon_cns]

wheres the serious boundless zeno crts

At least serious discussion has occurred here..

 

[DaReaperMan]

wheres the serious boundless zeno crts

I never looked, nor wanted to look

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Like, if Beerus and Champa are both Low 2-C and they got amped 1 Decillion times stronger they would still only be Low 2-C and therefore incapable of destroying both Universe 6 and 7.

Agree with this point

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Inconsistent. Goku who was under 2x weaker than Vegeta in their first encounter, could still keep up for a little bit, and couldn’t not do anything. He later on does the Kaiōken times 3, and isn’t even 2x more powerful than Vegeta, yet Vegeta had such a hard time compared to the time Goku had when he was in base

the point is still that heavy proof is needed for this to actually be approved

In the DB wiki they say you need to be at least 2x stronger to stomp which is what happened in this case, and there's gohan losing to cell in half power but in full power he over powers him completely and wins. And sometimes it's even more than 2x like kaioken 10x goku doesn't one shot hit completely. And don't forget that goku stomped jiren who's already way above half low 2-C, half low 2-C < Beerus < belmod < Jiren <<< MUI goku. And don't give me that, not enough proof for multiplier shit, the context of the show shows that these power gaps are very big, there is proof for 2x multiplier for ui goku blue gogeta and hidden power jiren and they still only get "likely" like the angels, in the case of full power jiren and sign 3 goku, there isn't as much proof only the big gaps with the scaling chain, so I propose "possibly 2-C"

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Agree with this point

Not in this case as has been said before, there low 2-C rating comes from a baseline 2-C feat being spread anong 2 people, hence only needing a time 2 multipler

 

[Vietthai96]

Kaioken multiplier is not accepted, cause if we x20 as truly x20 then SSB Goku Kaiokrn x20 will be way stronger than Beerus as his SSG is already allow him to content with Beerus, turn SSB and on top of that is x20 time power he will be way stronger than Beerus if we use math and multiplier, yet he get stomp by someone roundly comparable to GoDs

 

[Orange]

Actually the kaioken multipliers are accepted, maybe only for speed but they are accepted I suppose

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Kaioken multiplier is not accepted, cause if we x20 as truly x20 then SSB Goku Kaiokrn x20 will be way stronger than Beerus as his SSG is already allow him to content with Beerus, turn SSB and on top of that is x20 time power he will be way stronger than Beerus if we use math and multiplier, yet he get stomp by someone roundly comparable to GoDs

Clearly you have no clue about DB scaling, kaioken multiplier IS accepted along with SSJ, and beerus' power was retconned after BoG. Bruh did you think all of DBS is between God goku and beerus less than 20x tf.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Kaioken multiplier is not accepted, cause if we x20 as truly x20 then SSB Goku Kaiokrn x20 will be way stronger than Beerus as his SSG is already allow him to content with Beerus, turn SSB and on top of that is x20 time power he will be way stronger than Beerus if we use math and multiplier, yet he get stomp by someone roundly comparable to GoDs

..it is accepted I mean- they are? Goku being beaten by someone comparable to a God just means beerus was holding back all the more in the orginal encounter, something explicitly said (that beerus was holding
back) after it anyway

 

[Reio35]

The first part is exclusive to the manga.
The second part is just wrong.

Implies broly made them stronger then ever which means he has to be stronger than jiren to do that. This is a reference to the movie. Ch.42

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Implies broly made them stronger then ever which means he has to be stronger than jiren to do that. This is a reference to the movie. Ch.42

This is exclusive to the manga, because in the manga beerus is stronger than MUI goku, and MUI goku washed jiren while broly is stated probably stronger than beerus so yeah. This doesn't apply to the anime because Jiren is stronger than beerus and goku and vegeta without UI are still weaker than beerus.

 

[Vietthai96]

Manga is manga, Anime is anime don't try to use manga to explain anime and vice versa

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Manga is manga, Anime is anime don't try to use manga to explain anime and vice versa

Just to clarify to anyone who dosen't know reading, the manga and anime have there own separate profiles, the anime has far more but that's because more people were interested in the anime during it's release and all that. They don't cross over but they apply to themselves, this thread is about the anime

 

[BluudyManikin777]

In the DB wiki they say you need to be at least 2x stronger to stomp which is what happened in this case, and there's gohan losing to cell in half power but in full power he over powers him completely and wins. And sometimes it's even more than 2x like kaioken 10x goku doesn't one shot hit completely. And don't forget that goku stomped jiren who's already way above half low 2-C, half low 2-C < Beerus < belmod < Jiren <<< MUI goku. And don't give me that, not enough proof for multiplier shit, the context of the show shows that these power gaps are very big, there is proof for 2x multiplier for ui goku blue gogeta and hidden power jiren and they still only get "likely" like the angels, in the case of full power jiren and sign 3 goku, there isn't as much proof only the big gaps with the scaling chain, so I propose "possibly 2-C"

The DB wiki says so, but what does official source say? We should be taking official source rather than a fandom’s take on it

 

[Darkmon_cns]

The DB wiki says so, but what does official source say? We should be taking official source rather than a fandom’s take on it

The official sources call patara fusion multiplication and strongly implys regular fusion is at least adding powers in the process. That's what you get from them, and this fandom's take is that neither is usable, so chose your word's carefully

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The DB wiki says so, but what does official source say? We should be taking official source rather than a fandom’s take on it

Lmao the DB wiki has that information from daizenshuu 7 and it's referenced right next to the claim, take a look. IDK man but this seems pretty official, and it's even supported by examples from the show.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Lmao the DB wiki has that information from daizenshuu 7 and it's referenced right next to the claim, take a look. IDK man but this seems pretty official, and it's even supported by examples from the show.

Could you share a pic of where it says on Daizenshuu 7? It would be far better that way, so that we don’t have to spend our time to dig deep ourselves