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Devil May Cry Downgrade #1: Speed Edition

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Sevil Natas said:
backed by evidence that pokes holes on your argument. also i dont think we have a say in the matter, if the author intents that a feat is valid then the feat is valid regardless of what we think
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Thing is I have also given "evidence" as to why that interpretation also isn't exactly air tight. And you don't know the author intent mate, stop arguing that part.
 
I see

Well I'm fine with the other feats staying (I agree with the others being legit, neutral about the particle beam), but I had problems with MFTL
 
I mean... do you have any reason for being fine with them or was that just a "I don't care enough about them to yeet".
 
yes i dont know but the probability isnt with you here(thats why i said probably lol). a 30ms clip that is inconsistent with what actually happened & an outlier is all you have for your argument
also when did you bring up evidence against the inconsistency with the lighting & the visuals with the screenshot you provided as "proof" or evidence against dante putting up a barrier?
 
Jesus, this is still going?

Alright, let me just put it like this.

The arguments for this CRT being passed are reaching the point of utter absurdity. The very act of passing this CRT would mean treating this verse by an entirely different standard to how we treat any other verse purely for the sake of downgrading it.

And in terms of actual support, not a single actual knowledgeable DMC member is supporting your argument; the fact that so many people have gotten on this thread despite understanding the games so little that someone had to actually make a post explaining how Royal Guard works is just ridiculous. And there are about 20 knowledgeable members of the verse actively going against you. And trust me; DMC knowledgeables have had more than enough of single members stonewalling threads in the past, for up to 2000 posts.

If I recall correctly, at least some small parts of this CRT have some level of agreement and can probably be applied. But this thread is not going to go anywhere otherwise. The vast majority of this is never going to be passed by anyone who actually understands the verse, the wiki's standards, and isn't trying to be disingenuous about their intentions. If we can compile together the things on this thread that actually have been agreed upon so far, then I think we could actually go somewhere with this and finally conclude this thread peacefully and quickly. If that's just not going to happen, then it'll be clear that nothing productive is going to come out of this thread, and I'll just close it here.
 
also btw i disagree with dismissing the 5th feat because of too many "assumptions", thats why we have an "at least FTL likely MFTL" rating
there's enough evidence for it to be viable.
1st clearly dante & mundus were on outer space (probably interstellar space)
2nd they flew to a planet in what seemed like a matter of seconds (this is true. because it wouldnt make sense for them to go to it anyway if it were to take long. they would just fight in space lol)
3rd the planet was invisible from the cut scene.
thats why the ratings are in place.
 
Are we really arguing to use authorial intent for the author infamous for making exclusively troll WoG statements in response to fans pestering him? Authorial intent means nothing the author gives zero ***** about how strong his characters are in a vs battles setting and has never in his given a serious answer to any fan asking how strong dante is unless youd like to take 'ask your mom' or 'no you are blocked' as WoG statements.
 
Oi Garth, how about you actually drop an argument instead of just "y'all don't know what yer talking about". When half of your dudes here are defending a speed feat that literally does not include movement? How's that for an idea?
 
uhhh...... have you even read my arguments?
i said probably because the clip he uses as proof lasts 30ms, there's no way for any of us to notice by watching the cutscene as the devs intended. **** even when i slowed down the video to 0.25x i still had trouble noticing it.
so assuming that the devs used that to make us see that the events were happening at the exact same time is illogical especially considering the inconsistency with it.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Are we really arguing to use authorial intent for the author infamous for making exclusively troll WoG statements in response to fans pestering him? Authorial intent means nothing the author gives zero ***** about how strong his characters are in a vs battles setting and has never in his given a serious answer to any fan asking how strong dante is unless youd like to take 'ask your mom' or 'no you are blocked' as WoG statements.
Click to expand...
The **** Kamiya's twitter post even have to do with the thread and with the game ? Nobody did bring his twitter posts.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Are we really arguing to use authorial intent for the author infamous for making exclusively troll WoG statements in response to fans pestering him? Authorial intent means nothing the author gives zero ***** about how strong his characters are in a vs battles setting and has never in his given a serious answer to any fan asking how strong dante is unless youd like to take 'ask your mom' or 'no you are blocked' as WoG statements.
Click to expand...
I am sure that none of the DMC members with real knowledge use Kamiya's statement as part of the argument to try to save or improve the statistics of the verse, if that was the case, such a thing would have been rejected or disproved, since afterwards of everything is a statement that has been rejected so far by the staff themselves after coming to light
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Galens One of the driving forces for Dante's upgrade was him replying 'Universe' to a tweet about Dante so
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On the contrary actually, what upgraded DMC to Tier 3 to possible Tier 2 was Argosax and Manga universe fusion feat and the demon world almost colapsing after mundus defeat.
 
Oh for crying out loud.

This isn't even a thread about the tiering of the verse. Yet somehow, people managed to not only try and make it about that, but they're arguing against it by arguing about a justification that literally hasn't been used once for the verse in over three years?

This thread has devolved into incomprehensible nonsense, and nobody actually in support of the OP has any clue what they're talking about or even what they're arguing for at this point. I've already put forward the offer to just compile what's been accepted and apply those changes, because there is nothing productive that is going to come out of this thread at this point. Either we're doing that, or I'll just close it here.
 
@DarkGrath I brought that up as it was argued that we should accept authorial intent as reasoning, thus i pointed out why the authorial intent for DMC is unreliable

The accusations that i dont know what im talking about when i helped with this and the other upcoming DMC revisions for months is rather insulting
 
Bobsican said:
I'm just going to say that this falls as a sort of Aim Dodging (Aim Blocking? Either way the standard remains the same on this) if that's the case

So yeah, this can't be used for speed with the current proof, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...
This is completly false. Royal Guard has 2 types of blocks, normal and perfect block, normal block can be broken and make you take damage (in 3 and 4) perfect block can't be broken and literally lets you block everything, and it is literally based on your reaction to the incoming attacks.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@DarkGrath I brought that up as it was argued that we should accept authorial intent as reasoning, thus i pointed out why the authorial intent for DMC is unreliable

The accusations that i dont know what im talking about when i helped with this and the other upcoming DMC revisions for months is rather insulting
Click to expand...
There is a big ass difference between using the game and some twitter comments, pulling them both under the same tree makes it at best foolish and dumb.

The fact that you brought up something unrelated to the thread at hand and to the current tiers and descriptions makes it completly unbelievable that you know what you are talking about.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@DarkGrath I brought that up as it was argued that we should accept authorial intent as reasoning, thus i pointed out why the authorial intent for DMC is unreliable
Click to expand...
This is debatable, when there is posts from Kamiya where he repplied with no troll intentions related to DMC before he went troll.

And still unrelated to the thread.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Galens One of the driving forces for Dante's upgrade was him replying 'Universe' to a tweet about Dante so
Click to expand...
Like I said, that was a long time ago and then there was Matt's post that managed to demote the verse and that's where Kamiya's statement lost weight and was overturned for anyone who wants to use it as an argument. This can be seen in the last thread where DMC got its current level, where this statement was never used, neither as an argument nor as a backup.

But I understand what you mean, that's why I prefer to leave it that way on topics such as the use of statements like Kamiya's.
I also apologize to the staff if I seem to derail the thread, which is why I prefer not to pursue that topic as I am sure that both those in favor and those against want this to end quickly.
 
Yeah lock the thread

Kamiya's tweets haven't been used in years and WOG is far more prevalent on other verses

Accept what we've agreed on and move on
 
I believe everyone is fine with Point 1, not sure with Point 5.

I believe there is a reason why they accepted MFTL feat, even with assumptions being there
 
Sevil Natas said:
also btw i disagree with dismissing the 5th feat because of too many "assumptions", thats why we have an "at least FTL likely MFTL" rating
there's enough evidence for it to be viable.
1st clearly dante & mundus were on outer space (probably interstellar space)
2nd they flew to a planet in what seemed like a matter of seconds (this is true. because it wouldnt make sense for them to go to it anyway if it were to take long. they would just fight in space lol)
3rd the planet was invisible from the cut scene.
thats why the ratings are in place.
Click to expand...
I think it's because what Sevil Natas said
 
As far as I am aware, Point 1 has been agreed upon, and should be fine to apply. Point 5 seems to have some slight disagreement, but overall has support. Point 2, 3, and 4 have been heavily rejected.

If we can just apply Point 1 and 5 to the profiles, this thread can be concluded. It may be worth further discussing Point 5 in the future, but it seems to have more support than disagreement.
 
After reading the calc, the only bad assumption is time-frame for the feat where it takes place is a bit too presumptuous.

I see no problems with point 1 and 5 being removed.
 
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DarkGrath said:
As far as I am aware, Point 1 has been agreed upon, and should be fine to apply. Point 5 seems to have some slight disagreement, but overall has support. Point 2, 3, and 4 have been heavily rejected.

If we can just apply Point 1 and 5 to the profiles, this thread can be concluded. It may be worth further discussing Point 5 in the future, but it seems to have more support than disagreement.
Click to expand...
So points 1 and 5 from the OP have been largely agreed in the thread.

Can someone give a summary of what needs to be changed in accordance with those points?
 
@AKM sama
All the characters in the verse who have High Hypersonic+ ratings scaling from the calc in this blog will have to have these ratings removed, and the "likely Massively FTL" ratings will also have to be removed.

Due to the High Hypersonic+ characters having feats of reacting to bullets at very close range, I believe that they will need to have those ratings changed to Supersonic (correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that being the standard for close-range bullet reaction feats). The MFTL characters will just need the likely MFTL rating removed, with no other impact on their FTL ratings.

I believe I may have the time to handle this myself, though one of the pages is locked.
 
I've looked through each of the pages on the DMC verse page, and the only one that is locked for editing is Dante (Devil May Cry). If that can be unlocked, I'm pretty sure I'm available and will be able to make the necessary changes.
 
I'm currently editing the pages, though a few are uneditable in their current state due to using scans from ***********.net. I will see if I can replace the scans in the process.
 
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Ok so since pretty much everyone agrees on yeeting 1 and 5, we'll just talk about 2,3 and 4 from now on. These are the ppl in agreement and ppl in disagreement:

Agree (9 Total, 4 Staff): Earl(me), Weekly, Matthew, Ogbunali, Dienomite (agrees on 3), DarkDragonMedeus, Ionsite, (Idk about Potato, @fandom_00potato do you agree or disagree?), Bobscian, HellBeast,

Disagree(11 Total, 3 Staff): Dienomite (2 and 4), Sevil, Efite, (Not sure about Dante_Demon_Killa, he just disagreed on 2, no input on 3 and 4), KnightofSunlight, TissRedgrave, Dark Grath, Rebuble, TFSCell, Galens, Glassman, Sadistic_Sleuth,
 
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Both sides need to tone down the aggression. Just focus on the points and arguments without throwing accusations around. This type of behavior will just get the thread locked and since I want this to be completed properly, I will have to ban such users from replying to this thread if it keeps up.

I am pinging @LordGriffin1000 @CrimsonStarFallen @Sir_Ovens @The_Wright_Way @Damage3245 @GyroNutz @Starter_Pack to see if they can help out with the evaluation here.
 
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