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Dragon Ball: Zeno/Zamasu 2-C Clarification

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Golden_Void

Golden_Void

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So Zeno is 2-C because....

-He destroyed the afterlifes

-He destroyed Zamasu who was creeping into the current timeline , which he could only do because he traveled through a pre-existing void (which defeats the argument)

-Even though there are claims and evidence that he only destroyed physical matter, him being at least low 2-C depends on what Zamasu did.

-More statements of 2-C due to afterlife Destruction

-Even more afterlife statements

So destroying universe sized realms in the afterlife doesn't count? @Antvasima thoughts?

-The afterlife being separate from the mortal universe

"However, Zen'ō is still a Multi-Universal character, as his erasure of all 12 universes didn't simply affect the physical universes, but also the universe-sized Afterlifes, the Kaioshin Realms, and every other pocket dimension in existence."



Zamasu also didn't go to the current universe like we think he did. The only reason he even did make it through is the same reason Goku Black got through to U7 with his time ring. Trunks's original time travel created a portal to both universes, which Black and Zamasu travel through.

"Is something going to come out again?" Implies he never went into any universe but future U7.


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So if Zamasu was only 2-C based on his entrance into the current U7, then that feat really wasn't his own, and the portal his essence appeared in still existed, as he was destroyed before Goku and crew came out to the current timeline.

Also what evidence do we have that Zamasu becoming the universe included space-time? Gowasu said he might be becoming the universe, and all the universes are physically separate yet under the same space time. Nothing suggests he went to another universe, except by going through the pre-existing void in space-time.
 
Well, if I remember correctly Whis stated that Zen'o is able to completely destroy all of existence if he wants to, not simply the physical matter, which is why he is 2-C.

You may have a good point about that we rate Zamasu too high however. I will highlight this thread for further input.
 
Personally, I'm starting to believe that this notion of "If two universes can be flown from one to the other, than they are under the same space-time" is completely arbitrary.

In plenty of instances in both Marvel and DC that is perfectly possible, and those universes are not all under the same space-time. Besides, in Brane Cosmology it's perfectly possible to have multiple universes all attached to the same space-time membrane.

As for Zamasu...

The point isn't that he was going to enter other universes, although he would have eventually encompassed absolutely everything.

The point is that he's Low 2-C because he was becoming the universe, and as evidence for his form leeking onto the current timeline, he was affecting space-time as well.

He was becoming the universe both on Trunks's future and Goku's present.
 
Antvasima may have a point on Immortal Zamasu as rating him Low 2-C would make him two levels of Infinity higher than the Gods of Destruction,The Angels and even Grand Priest and Goku thought that his SSGSS form and a Senzu bean would be enough to defeat him.


But we also know for a fact that Zamasu's Will has besides Zeno the best feats in all of Dragon Ball Super as he was becoming the Universe and leaking to other timelines and even Whis said that he could defeat him but only by sealing him so it's hard for me to decide on a tier for Zamasu.

I'll rater wait for input from a more experienced editor.
 
Maybe "At least 3-A" would be more reasonable, to stay on the safe side?
 
It could be "At least 3-A possibly Low 2-C" just so we don't fully deny that Zamasu went to other timelines but yeah that could work.
 
I still think that Zen'o only destroyed the physical matter of the universe, otherwise travel back to the future wouldn't be possible; futhermore, I could agree with Zamasu being potentially High 3-A in durability (or 2-C if words above are debunked), his AP shouldn't change that much, already in the future his AP was 3-A, with the other characters being capable of protects from his attacks, he was just expanding his range.
 
But the future was left a void of nothingness and Zeno can destroy everything, and we know that DBS characters can destroy space-time, even Base Vegeta can do it on a Planetary Scale.
 
I still believe that Zeno should still be 2-C due to Whis's Statements of being able to erase all of existence and was able to erase Zamasu whose range was Multi-Universal (Range not Attack Potency). As for Zamasu it could either be "At least 3-A possibly Low 2-C" or it could be like Demigra who has a stat that cannot be used for combat it being his 2-C key so it could also be "3-A normally Low 2-C with Preparation" anyways what do you think.
 
I know that's why i said he is definitely 2-C


Wait if Vegeta can destroy Space-time on a planetary scale shouldn't he be High 3-A???
 
Don't think that At least 3-A is usable since the difference between the other tier is infinite, 3-A is fine for me, but that is just me, at the end, the only what he did was launch several attacks; Zamasu could be 2-C in durability, but again, destroying time wasn't needed to kill him, so higher tier that he can obtain is High 3-A. I already agreed in make Zen'o Likely 2-C due to how the cosmology works (or doesn't works).
 
"At least 3-A possibly Low 2-C" could definitely work as we have entities such as Bill Cipher who is "At least 2-A possibly High 1-C" even though both tiers are many infinities apart. Although "Low 2-C with Preparation also seems likely.
 
I disagree with Zamasu being downgraded. He was stated to be a "cheat character" as is. Just because he is above the GoD and Daishinkan means nothing. Just because it makes sense doesn't mean it's correct. Zamasu's feat was Low 2-C simple as that. We believe that the GoD are above him yet we cannot prove such things. Zamasu is fine as is.
 
I'm fine with Zamasu staying at Low 2-C I'm just saying that there are some things that contradict him being that high such as:

-We don't have clear evidence that Zeno destroyed all Time and Space in the Future. Heck we don't even know if he destroyed all 12 Universes to get rid of Zamasu. Goku and Trunks were able to return to a point in Time in the Future therefore it means he dint destroy Time only Space.

-Goku was confident he could take on Zamasu simply by taking a Senzu Bean and transforming into SSGSS. Either Goku is Low 2-C or Zamasu is 3-A.


Again i do believe and know for a fact that Zamasu's feat was Low 2-C there are just some thing that make it hard to believe and if such things were not there then we would not need to have this discussion.
 
"-We don't have clear evidence that Zeno destroyed all Time and Space in the Future. Heck we don't even know if he destroyed all 12 Universes to get rid of Zamasu. Goku and Trunks were able to return to a point in Time in the Future therefore it means he dint destroy Time only Space."

Pretty sure he did. Look up the Zeno stats threads to find out though.

"-Goku was confident he could take on Zamasu simply by taking a Senzu Bean and transforming into SSGSS. Either Goku is Low 2-C or Zamasu is 3-A."

He was simply overconfident. As we see he and Vegeta's attacks had no effect.

"Again i do believe and know for a fact that Zamasu's feat was Low 2-C there are just some thing that make it hard to believe and if such things were not there then we would not need to have this discussion."

Hard to believe =/= Wrong
 
I don't see how Goku could kill Zamasu without killing himself, so most likely was overconfident. iirc, Zen'o destroyed the 12 universes, but he doesn't seems to destroy the time in there since is still accessible by the time-machine.
 
But why would the Time Machine be counted as PIS???


And Goku and Vegeta were at base form and completely depleted of their energy as Shin stated.
 
Find the threads to get an answer. I don't remember.

Doesn't change much. Based on our tiering system, their boosted forms would also do nothing. Nothing contradicted here.
 
It really doesn't matter much though as Zeno would still be 2-C so there is no point looking for an answer.


And we don't know if Goku and Vegeta's Blue forms would not do anything. If Zamasu is indeed Low 2-C then yes the blue forms would be equally as useless as their normal forms but we never saw Goku and Vegeta fight Zamasu in their Blue forms to be sure.


Then again it won't matter since Zamasu already has a Low 2-C feat by bringing his presence to the present.
 
Yeah you're right. I'm going to wait for further input of other members to see what they think though.
 
Well, perhaps it is best if Zamasu stays where he is then.
 
Yeah i don't remember that either but it really doesn't matter as Zeno would be 2-C regardless due to Whis's Statement.
 
Antoniofer said:
I still think that Zen'o only destroyed the physical matter of the universe, otherwise travel back to the future wouldn't be possible; futhermore, I could agree with Zamasu being potentially High 3-A in durability (or 2-C if words above are debunked), his AP shouldn't change that much, already in the future his AP was 3-A, with the other characters being capable of protects from his attacks, he was just expanding his range.
Click to expand...
I think you forgot about what verse were talking about if you're complaining about Goku traveling back when Zen'o destroyed everything
 
Yeah this is the same verse that suggests that Beerus had Plotpotence and is trillions of times stronger than SSG Goku even though they were supposedly comparable.
 
Super Saiyan God Julian said:
Yeah this is the same verse that suggests that Beerus had Plotpotence and is trillions of times stronger than SSG Goku even though they were supposedly comparable.
Click to expand...
trust me with all that happens in the show them traveling back is normal pis

in fact dbs is a walking pis
 
To @Antoniofer, you keep saying Zen'o's future timeline destruction is only physical matter destruction, or at least that's what you believe.

However, keep in mind, Zen'o destroyed Zamasu in his Immortal Soul form, a form of Zamasu accepted by the staff and members of this wiki to be a Low 2-C. To destroy Zamasu, an entire universal and its fabric is to destroy space-time as well. To say Zen'o only destroyed matter is to deny Zamasu being Low 2-C. Either that or you could say Zen'o can destroy souls and intangible entities...
 
Apex PredatorX said:
Did we have confirmation that Zeno destroyed the time in order to kill Zamasu?
Click to expand...
The fact that he was able to harm and kill Zamasu while he was low 2-C puts him at so
 
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