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Beerus and Whis Speed

Akreious

Akreious

5,654
1,143
So looking over the profiles, something Beerus and Whis' speed urks me. Likely because it makes no real logical sense?

Super Saiyan God Goku scales to Beerus 3/4th Whis Feat.

The problem arises however given the fact that we use Kaioken Multipliers, even ignoring Super Saiyan Blue, Zenkais, and Training.

KKx10 multipliers SSG Goku's feat by... x10.

Hit handled and outsped SSBKKx10 Goku.

A stronger and faster Hit was fought on-par by a SSB Goku (No Kaioken), meaning at least Base SSB Goku (Post Goku Black) > SSBKKx10 Goku (U6 Tournament)

Then Goku can use a further SSBKKx20 to amp himself up. This notably barely did anything to Jiren.

Then Goku in his base SSB form was able to push Jiren to a level further than he ever did, surpassing his old SSBKKx20.

And THEN he stacks ANOTHER KKx20 on top of THAT.

The overall Kaioken Multipliers when all is said and done is a 4000x Multiplier; making Goku 1494000 Quadrillion Times FTL or 3000x Faster than Whis. Uhhh, no?

So we have a few options here.

1. Amend Beerus and Whis' profile to incorporate the basic Kaioken Scaling Chain

2. Keep the profiles as-is and ignore Kaioken but just put in "Faster than MUI Goku/Limit Breaker Jiren"

3. Attempt to somewhat get an accurate gauge as to the total multipliers and such via blog

I personally would go for option 1 since it's the simplest. Option 2 would be, I dunno, hypocritical? We accept Kaioken as a Canonical, Consistent Multiplier and yet we'd be ignoring it here for the sake of laziness? And Option 3 is the most work but arguably the most accurate of all these options, at least incorporating the accepted 40x Super Saiyan Multiplier in all of this.

So what do you all think?
 
Its not that hard to find an acceptable Low ball SSJG multiplier.

SSJ3 Goku:1

Pre God Forms Base Vegito: 2x SSJ3 Goku at least (Vegito is a combination of Goku and Vegeta's current max strength)

SSJ Vegito: 80-100x SSJ3 Goku (Super Saiyan is 40 - 50x Base, makes sense canon wise to be 50x as SSJ Future Trunks was stated to be as strong as Namek Saga SSJ Goku but vastly superior to Mecha Frieza, who powered up higher than his 100% Namek power)

SSJG Goku: 160 - 200x SSJ3 Goku (stated to be a world Goku has never reached before in power and Goku was more confident in the power of SSJG then Fusion at the time.)

SSJ3 Goku =160-200x Base or at least 2x SSJ2 > SSJ2 Goku =80-100x Base or 2x SSJ at least > SSJ Goku = 40-50x Base Goku > Kaioken Goku = 2 ->20x Base Goku >/=/< Oozaru Goku = 10x Base Goku > Base Goku

SSJG (extreme low end) = 25600 - 32000x or (higher low-ball) = 40000x 'Base Goku

SSJGSS or SSJB = 40x-50x SSJG

SSJB Kaioken = 2x - 20x SSJB
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Using Vegito as a basis is moot.
Click to expand...
But why though?

We know Vegito is the combination of Vegeta and Goku's max powers. We also know that at the time in BoG, Goku was fairly more confident in his SSJG form than a hypothetical Super Vegito. We also know that as Goku and Vegeta's max power began to increase, so did Vegito's Base.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Ritual SSG =/= SSG now. A ******* Great Ape multiplier on top of ssj is god level.
Click to expand...
Don't forget Broly's huge ass Reactive Power level, closed the 40-50x gap in just Base alone and then was superior to SSJ. Maybe Broly's Reactive rate grows faster the higher the transformation he is in.
 
I am sure that beerus was not using his maximum speed because he was holding his fight against goku ssjG and that this only escalates to MUI and LB jiren.
 
Oliver de jesus said:
I am sure that beerus was not using his maximum speed because he was holding his fight against goku ssjG and that this only escalates to MUI and LB jiren.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the 3/4th the speed of Whis only scaling to MUI and LB Jiren? Because that'd make no real sense as Whis commented on how Beerus actually exerted himself for once in a long time, which would make no sense if Beerus exerted himself more that very morning.
 
Unless you want a mess of inconsistency, well remember that bills is lazy so not using real speed against goku ssjg would make sense since wiss probably means that he had to give more power than he normally used (3A)
 
Oliver de jesus said:
and you know how inconsistent it would be if we use multipliers :V </div>
Click to expand...
not really.....the multipliers given to us are deemed, too low by staff so even if we used multipliers it would be a heftly Low Ball.
 
Oliver de jesus said:
Unless you want a mess of inconsistency, well remember that bills is lazy so not using real speed against goku ssjg would make sense since wiss probably means that he had to give more power than he normally used (3A)
Click to expand...
So you're saying that Beerus uses more power in flying to a no-name planet than he normally uses while fighting someone that actually manages to get him excited.

Yeah... no that makes no sense.

Also no, there is 0 inconsistency here. At all. Actually Beerus and Whis only being this speed is the MORE inconsistent.
 
They should be upgraded anyways, but I'm waiting for the Forum move currently. Anyways, multipliers usually aren't used on here, but Kaio-Ken's is quite obvious. Stuff should be changed, but I think we should wait for the forum move before a big change like this.

Edit: Also, "at least 498 Quadrillion times Light" makes sense to me as an option too.
 
IDrey said:
Beerus being 3/4 of Whis speed was not considered wrong?
Click to expand...
There's actually a very easy fix for this.

We know it takes Whis 35 minutes at NORMAL speed to get from Beerus Palace to King Kai's Planet and another 3 minutes to go from there to Earth; total travel time would be 38 minutes (His ACTUAL speed would be faster because Hypotenus math).

Speed = 1.488x10^27 m/38 minutes

Speed = 652631578947368421052632 m/s or 2176944621293203x Lightspeed (2.1 Quadrillion times lightspeed).

3/4th of this is 1632708500000000x Lightspeed (1.6 Quadrillion times Lightspeed).

Now we apply the Kaioken stuff I did in OP (4000x Overall Multiplier) to get 6.530834e+18x Lightspeed or 6.5 Quintillion times FTL; 13x faster than Whis.

Hypothetically, if we use Awkguy's Super Saiyan Multipliers, we get 2612333600000000000000x FTL (2.6 Sextillion times FTL) for SSB Goku and 52246672000000000000000x FTL (52.2 Sextillion times FTL) for SSBKKx20 Goku or 105263.160089x faster than Whis which makes ZERO sense.

And there's no actual reason to deny this level of speed either as Ikki Kurogane is notorious for getting higher levels of speed via sheer amps.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
This should probably wait until the forum move because there's already a multipliers thread that's been put on hold until after the migration, and I think it will affect this thread if it gets accepted (Which seems likely imo).
Click to expand...
A multipliers thread? You mean on Cal's wall?
 
I still think a good solution for right now would be "at least 498 Quadrillion times Light", but that's just my opinion.
 
"Super Saiyan God Goku scales to Beerus 3/4th Whis Feat."

Not the feat noted on Whis' page, no. That's his highest speed and Goku and Beerus are definitely not beyond that. They scale to his casual speed feat he did in episode 2 which is not 500 quadrillions c.
 
AKM sama said:
"Super Saiyan God Goku scales to Beerus 3/4th Whis Feat."
Not the feat noted on Whis' page, no. That's his highest speed and Goku and Beerus are definitely not beyond that. They scale to his casual speed feat he did in episode 2 which is not 500 quadrillions c.
Click to expand...
Which is why I specifically quoted the guy above and redoing the math for Episode 2. Speaking of that, Beerus should REALLY have that amended.

I mean... isn't really hard given that we have basic distance and the exact time for Whis at "normal" speed, which is the degree of speed Beerus DOES scale to.

This still leads the end-result of Goku being 13x faster than Whis with basic Kaioken Multipliers, making Goku and Beerus far beyond Whis' stated speed on the profile and the inconsistency remaining.
 
The episode 2 feat was calced at some billions or trillions c back in the day and it's basically unquantifiable since we don't know the actual distance travelled in that feat.
 
AKM sama said:
The episode 2 feat was calced at some billions or trillions c back in the day and it's basically unquantifiable since we don't know the actual distance travelled in that feat.
Click to expand...
... Huh? We know for an absolute fact Beerus is 3/4th the speed of Normal-Transport Whis' Speed. That's pretty much all we need to know; we just need to figure out what that normal speed is.

35 minutes from Beerus' place to King Kai's place and a further 3 minutes from King Kai's place to Earth for a total of 38 minutes.

Low-ball Distance would be the same as used in the Whis speed feat (The distance in actuality would be higher since they'd literally be taking the longer route and not directly heading for Earth; Simple Pythagorean theorem)

The result is normal-Speed Whis using Staff and Beerus scales to 3/4th of it, as we have a direct numerical ratio between Whis' Arrival Time and Beerus' Arrival Time.

So no, it's very much quantifiable as I literally did just that in my post above.
 
Sextillion Goku doesn't sound right when the literal God tier had a calc of his attack speed and it got Quintillion. Them being stuck at Quad c makes sense since they shouldn't be able to casually dodge Zeno's attacks.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Sextillion Goku doesn't sound right when the literal God tier had a calc of his attack speed and it got Quintillio. Them being stuck at Quad c makes sense since they shouldn't be able to casually dodge Zeno's attacks.
Click to expand...
This is incorrect. The God tier of the verse, Zeno, has zero speed feats to his name proper. Also NO calc. uses attack speed so you're incorrect on that front anyways. The Angels, notably Whis, has a noted Travel Speed- the problem is, Travel Speed has ALWAYS been slower than Combat or Reaction speed.

Another thing is, nothing is inherently stopping anyone from actually replicating Whis' feat of moving across the Universe. Goku only can't because he can't breathe in space and he has absolutely no idea where Beerus' Place is and Beerus is literally too lazy. None has it been mentioned these guys are "too slow".

There is no contradiction of Sextillion FTL Dragon Ball Characters here by any metric. Just because Whis said it's the fastest he's ever gone doesn't even imply his maximum, just that yes it's the fastest he's ever gone. Did he say he went as fast as possible? No.

Also your last sentence also makes no sense. Zeno already scales above them by massive margins- AKA if Goku gets Sextillion times FTL, Zeno scales. So by even the most basic of scaling, your "They shouldn't be able to casually dodge Zeno's attacks" completely fails in reasoning because he inherently scales above those people anyways.
 
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