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High 8-C Tournament Match 3 ( Crystal (Nuclear Throne) vs Shin Sun-Il)

So, they are both teleported to a pocket dimension by Sun-Il, possibly it also has a -30% to speed and AP like his cousins' did.

After that, he would try to go in melee right away.


For advantages...

He can also use swords and spears well if he needs to, damage to him will be registered as HP loss so piercing attacks are no-more usefull than normal hits, and physical damage he is done just disappears (so ripping or incapacitating organs/limbs doesn't work), and his more skilled than any martial artist that exists among normal people.
 
What's Sun's AP? It's unclear based on the profile what exactly he's scaling from.

Crystal upscales, via being the massively most durable mutant, from 8.61x10^9, so her durability isn't great, but upscaling puts it decently high (For a loose perspective, most Mutants have 12 HP with max mutations, Crystal has 20.)

Crystal has massive versatility advantages and range advantage, along with spammable teleportation, alongside Euphoria boosting perception and Stress giving Crystal absurd firing speeds when she's badly damaged. Piercing isn't much of an issue, given that The Super Plasma Cannon (which will have it's size increased by Laser Brain) and The Nuke Launcher rely on big explosions rather than piercing-

Super Plasma Cannon is 3.28x10^10 = Large Building level+, Nuke Launcher is even higher, at 4.06.

Crystal also has plenty of skill, living an entire life around fighting and mowing down swarms of enemies, grabbing any weapon she gets, fighting unknown and esoteric radiation-afflicted enemies, and hellish levels of danmaku that all severely damage Mutants upon each and every hit. Letting opponents get close is like, Number 1 in "do not do," with dozens of monsters nearly instantly killing in melee.
 
User blog:Assaltwaffle/Nuclear Throne Weapon Yields

Main Cast Power Weapons: Bosses aside from the Nuclear Throne scale to this.

1.11x10^10 = 2.652963671 Tons

Nuke Launcher/Super Plasma Cannon

3.28x10^10 = 7.839388145 Tons

4.06x10^10 = 9.703632887 Tons

Main Cast Normal Weapons: Durability of standard enemies and the main cast can be taken from this, as most (aside from Melting) can take hits of this caliber. Standard enemies would also likely scale to this.

4.10x10^8 joules = 0.097992352 Tons

Where are you getting 8.61x10^9 = 2.057839388 Tons from?

User blog:Ricsi-viragosi/Han Mana Bomb re-calc
 
Well, Shin can also summon his two spirits, though we don't know how they fight at all. They should be his equals though.

His pocket dimensions apply debuffs to enemies, and his own stat-amp should allow him and his spirits to get close, since his HP and Ki deal makes just shooting or blasting him near impossible unless he is killed.

Pocket Dimensions can also be used to apply fogs and just sneak attack people. Again, his cousin does it.
 
The NT calc list is a bit old: an updated revisions thread happened recently enough.

Yea, the spirit guys haven't ever been featured, so any debating using them is pure speculation on what maybe, might be. Same with several of his pocket realm abilities.

Teleportation and Euphoria lead me to believe Crystal will make it incredibly hard to get close, since it's spammable. Fogs are nice, but danmaku will very quickly clear it out. Even if he does get close, Crystal can still hold her own long enough (melee weapons exist, and you have to be quick on the draw to survive in Nuclear Throne) to teleport back out again and return fire.

Gamer's Body and it's effects are excellent against swords and bullets, I agree! I always found that part of The Gamer very interesting. But it's hardly relevant against Crystal, who relies more on raw damage and blasting than piercing damage. So, it won't be very helpful here.
 
Necromercer said:
Hmm.. Shin via AP or FRA
Click to expand...
The debate's like, two posts in, and Crystal actually has higher AP with her best weapons (~x2).

Wait a 'lil bit.
 
Speaking of debates -

Shin uses some sort of mana, right? So he's limited in his amps, right? I can't recall but he's not limitless.
 
Necromercer said:
Yeah, he's not limitless.
Click to expand...
So-

AP: Even, oddly enough. Shin has amps, but is overall around x2 stronger than Crystal's durability, yet Crystal is x2 stronger than Shin's dura, because NT be like that. Scary Face also lowers Shin's dura by around 20%, and Laser Brain amps Crystal's laser damage.

Speed: Hard to say. Crystal has various small buffs for speed and can teleport, but Shin (might) have some good debuffs and amps.

Range: Crystal and it's not particularly close. She'll spam the hell out of this advantage.

Skill: Crystal is massively skilled with guns and danmaku, and has advanced senses and perception, while Shin is likely more skilled in basic hand-to-hand (though Crystal isn't bad in that, too.)

Abilities: Crystal. Her danmaku, range spam, and teleporting far surpasses Shin and his "run up and punch" and Shin's 'health bar' is next to irrelevant. Shin has his Summons, but we've never really seen them do jack.

Stamina: Crystal. Training for days is nice, but training is a whole different thing from nonstop, lethal combat. Not to mention, his actual battle/mana resources are lower, and he has shown to get tired while fighting alongside Han. Meanwhile, Crystal has massive stockpiles of ammo and can easily switch out weapons, alongside fighting and living in an immensely dangerous nuclear wasteland her entire life, capable of running through waves of dozens upon dozens of enemies capable of horribly damaging her with ease, nonstop.

Overall, Shin has some potential options- key word, potential. His debuffs and his clones are completely unconfirmed advantages, so they aren't his starting move, nor do we know they exist as we assume. Crystal's wincons are true and tried. She will rangespam, and this is the first thing she'll try, and it will be hell. Shin is going to be bombarded by massive lobs of energy and explosion, and while Shin can run out of 'mana', Crystal has a metric crap ton of ammo and many other weapons to resort to.

Shin has his melee skill and debuffs, but his advantages end there. AP is equal, speed is mitigated by teleport spam (which isn't costing Crystal anything), range is easily in her favor, range skill is beyond in her favor, abilities is in her favor and many of Shin's abilities are hypotheticals, not facts, and stamina marginally favors her, too. Even if Shin manages to go blow-for-blow, Crystal's Stress amps will result in her overtaking him in melee with up to x2 melee and firing speed.
 
Not really, no.

He doesn't have clones. They are sentient spirits, not mimics of him. We know for a fact that he can summon them, but the only time we saw them was when he summoned them against Hwan Sung-Go, and they got their ass beat so we don't know their abilities beyond that they are spirits of clouds and rain.

His pocket dimension having debuffs is pretty likely. Han finds the idea of pocket dimensions without them pretty strange for a battle.

The fog thing, too, we know that exists, making a foggy pocket dimension isn't exactly incredible. It's unknown if ūhe would use it, tough he is pretty smart and being range spammed against.
 
I meant summons, yes. I'm aware they got their asses beat which is... not good? It doesn't look like their stats are great. Even if we assume he'd lead with them and that they could hurt Crystal, it's likely they'd die soon (If they are around half as strong as Shin, they'd be around 4 times weaker than Crystal's AP).

Potentially, yes, but it's still a doubtful factor. We don't know how strong, what debuffs... So I can't really accept that as a prime justification for his victory if we don't know it exists.

Fog, fair enough, but the plethora of danmaku + enhanced senses + The Smart Gun and similar can counter it, even assuming she can't blow away the fog. It is also likely that it'll make it difficult for Shin to follow her, too.
 
No, they aren't weaker than him. They should be his equals aat the least, maybe even stronger.

We do. A pocket dimension specific to his family, used by his less experienced cousin, applies a 30% debuff (10 for anyone withouth ki manip, 10 for anyone without air manip, and 10 for anyone without rain manip).

Shin can sense her at all times with or without fog.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
No, they aren't weaker than him. They should be his equals aat the least, maybe even stronger.
We do. A pocket dimension specific to his family, used by his less experienced cousin, applies a 30% debuff (10 for anyone withouth ki manip, 10 for anyone without air manip, and 10 for anyone without rain manip).

Shin can sense her at all times with or without fog.
Click to expand...
Sure, supposedly, but they didn't exactly live long in that scenario. So I'm reluctant to call them around equal.

Well, it's hard to say exactly how much it is, nor have we seen him really use it, but he hasn't really had the opportunity to.

(Apologies, forgot.)

So, it's likely Shin can slow her down, though teleportation and other small speed amps will try to equalize that. Fog is useful, but Smart Gun can act as a mini-homing cannon to constantly point and fire instinctively at Shin. Danmaku can also help at blasting him down. Overall, fighting when obscured by darkness (or fog) isn't anything new to her.
 
What do you mean? We see him going up against a 7-A, there's a cut, and the next time we see him he is incapacitated for months. The spirits aren't seen for seasons, but there is no reason to assume they got their ass handed any worse to them then he did.

What do you mean it's hard to say? It's a 30% decrease.

I do see her winning more often though.
 
Unfortunately, that's the thing. We can assume their powers and abilities, how often he uses them, etc... But it doesn't leave us with much to work with. I don't recall him ever using them with Han when up against that... one guy, before they went to Hell. Kinda forgot who he was.

TBH I was assuming closer to 50%, given that he's considerably stronger, but fair.

It's a close bout, but I think the danmaku means that Crystal's high AP hits will simply be more abundant, meaning Crystal's damage output will be more reliable, so I'll vote Crystal FRA. (Shin probably could of beat a lot of the other contestants, though).
 
Shin... never went to hell. The blondie luck guy went to hell. If you mean the sand guy before they went to the Space Twisting guy, then they were BFRd to an ID made by that guy and couldn't escape (and you can't make an instant dungeon inside an instant dungeon). Space Twister and the Darkness guy by the giant tree were also pocket dimensions.

I don't think he ever got in a fight where he got to be the one that made the pocket dimension.
 
Before Hell. Shin didn't go to hell, Lucky Dude did.

They went somewhere else before that.

(But yes, that's the fight I meant. He hasn't exactly had a lot of screen time, hasn't he?)

This fight seems like it would be similar to if Han fought Shin- ranged spamming and innate versatility versus melee skill and techniques. Fun.

So, are you voting?
 
So, what are the official votes?

Ricsi: Shin

Moritzva: Crystal

Necromercer: ?

Edit: Wait, Ricsi said "I do see her winning more often though." which I guess is a vote for Crytsal.

If the votes don't change I will advance Crystal in 40 minutes.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Will there be another quick tournament like this once this is done?
Click to expand...
If it continues to go well, then probably. I have yet to see which tier, though.
 
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